02:09:58 Devastator: all my mechwarriors are wounded.
02:14:39 Egan: well, you still got most of a lance then
02:40:27 Devastator has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
04:06:03 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
04:07:01 Devastator has joined #einsteinianroulette
04:11:10 syv: Does your 1/2 pilot have any relevant feats?
04:12:20 Devastator: Wasn't my 1/2 pilot. Was an enemy pilot.
04:12:31 Devastator: and yes, there was a special skill too.
04:12:54 Devastator: I got really lucky the ace was in a small mech.
04:22:16 Devastator: that a wolf smilie?
04:30:02 syv: Ah. Ace wasn't in a proper LAM?
04:39:39 syv: Higher chance of wolf than previously
04:39:51 syv: I slept ten hours and woke up only twice
04:49:25 Egan: there's a hirable HR person who's elite level, but rather than increasing administration skill she seems to have picked up combat perks
04:56:22 Egan: how exactly am I supposed to be getting around without owning any ships? just paying someone for it abstractly?
05:00:24 Devastator: it just was like 30 tons.
05:00:37 Devastator: you pay to move your entire company.
05:00:43 Devastator: it charges you open market rates.
05:00:59 Devastator: Apparently if you have your own ships you can split the company up, and just have pieces move around.
05:01:14 syv: Did they use the flight mode?
05:01:32 Devastator: No, although the same pilot was -also- 1/2 as an air ace.
05:01:41 syv: I looked up LAM rules, and apparently they're agreed to be very bad currently.
05:01:50 Devastator: was a pretty disgusting pilot, really.
05:02:02 Devastator: special ability AND 1/2 in both sets of primary stats.
05:02:25 Devastator: Note, I have zero pilots with any skills as 2.
05:03:52 syv: LAMs are historically either utterly OP, or really shit.
05:22:00 Egan: are the hyperspace navigators in this setting also high on drugs?
05:22:51 Devastator: No, I don't think so.
05:24:04 Egan: wow, for maintainence they actually roll once for each mech part
05:28:47 Egan: hmm, in the personnel market, there's a green soldier with a unit assignment of an MG jump platoon
05:29:12 Egan: I guess if I hire her she would come with owning all the platoon equipment but I would have to bulk hire soldiers?
05:31:39 Devastator: Yeah, I think that's the unit commander.
05:31:47 Devastator: also, you can buy random units from the unit purchase thing.
05:31:53 Devastator: not the actual market.
05:32:06 Devastator: you get the full unit with the commander.
05:32:35 Egan: what does the market mean?
05:32:43 Egan: is the unit purchase cheating?
05:33:24 Egan: or, no, it makes a roll to see if I can find one to buy?
05:33:30 Devastator: Unit purchase takes time.
05:33:33 Egan: and the marketplace is stuff that I know exists
05:33:37 Devastator: and it always costs full price.
05:33:45 Devastator: marketplace has deals and stuff that can show up instantly.
05:33:48 syv: Jump infantry are always worth buying at any skill level.
05:34:07 Devastator: I don't know, I just murdered a unit of them. ;-p
05:34:10 syv: Haven't paid attention to what skill levels the users are... but you can reassign them anyway.
05:34:20 syv: The AI is bad at using jumpers ;P
05:34:45 syv: Basically the only time jumpers are bad is in maps without cover.
05:35:12 syv: They can still get pasted easily if you put them in a bad spot against the wrong enemy...
05:35:26 syv: But it is pretty easy to not do that, and it's easy to get their cost back in damage dealt.
05:36:01 syv: Hire a more skilled foot/APC/whatever infantry
05:36:09 syv: And swap the low skilled guys
05:36:33 syv: There's no jump training, all inf know how to use all inf gear.
05:36:56 syv: Which is, really, more reasonable than all mechwarriors knowing how to pilot all mechs.
05:38:31 Egan: looks like I can "refit" them as lasers if I want
05:39:32 Egan: jumpers will be good for spotting for my command Archer
05:41:51 Egan: it says the kit TN is impossible, but also that it only requires buying laser rifles, and I can buy laser rifles on a 3+?
05:43:48 syv: It seems that infantry inferno rockets do not cause heat damage to enemy mechs.
05:44:09 syv: Lasers are weird, but yeah, mostly better than MG
05:44:36 syv: Less damage but double range (so usually higher hit chance), and aren't penalized by gravity, which is MUCH higher hit chance.
05:44:54 syv: They do about half damage relative to SRMs and can jump 5 tiles too.
05:45:24 Egan: no options for SRMs as a kit, just laser, flamer, or all rifles
05:45:32 syv: I read that spotter inf are great, but haven't tried it.
05:46:02 syv: With some GM cheating, though I don't think that's necessary
05:46:15 syv: Also, I don't see any reason to not make them 30-size platoons.
05:46:47 syv: At most small platoons of elites will hit more often... but they're more vulnerable and do less damage?
05:47:00 syv: Spotters could be small just so they're cheap.
05:47:34 syv: And if you could find just three stealth suits, three elite jumpers with them would be great spotters and basically immortal.
05:49:13 syv: Also, cover tiering goes like this:
05:50:17 Egan: none of my soldiers have a rank
05:50:23 syv: Hardened buildings > prepared positions > thick woods > light woods > heavy buildings > medium buildings ≈ rubble/rough cover > "in the open".
05:50:37 syv: Are they all green? Or do you mean like private etc
05:50:55 Egan: yeah like the military rank
05:51:06 syv: Yeah they don't get those by default, idk why
05:51:17 syv: Also heavy buildings should be ≈ with light forest
05:51:24 Egan: maybe I should assign some for RP sake
05:51:52 syv: Basically, buildings make infantry vulnerable to *sustained* anti-mech fire, but resistant to anything else.
05:52:10 Egan: one of the veterans I think just randomly rolled anti-mech and is thus paid more
05:52:33 syv: A 100t assault mech with multiple PPCs close enough to melee your guys will kill them faster in a heavy building than in the open.
05:52:51 syv: But in most cases buildings are much better.
05:53:03 syv: And distracting a 100t mech for a turn is pretty worth it
06:00:31 Devastator: well that one went pretty well.
06:00:44 Devastator: it's not done yet, but the enemy is fielding a ton of really heavy dangerous vehicles.
06:00:50 Devastator: but th emap is coated in forests.
06:01:26 Egan: uhh, I forgot how to assign my lance to the mission
06:01:54 Devastator: but sometimes if you have more than one lance the issuer will pick which one.
06:07:06 Egan: oh, I had to pick their *role*
06:13:37 Egan: how the heck do you have clan tech knowledge, rando areospace engineer?
06:22:46 syv: She's a historian and it's technically star league knowledge!
06:22:54 syv: Which is applicable to clanner tech I guess
06:31:18 Egan: hmm, there are transport choppers
06:34:18 Egan: hmm, jump troops weight considerably more than foot troops
06:34:36 Egan: so foot troops would be worth considering if you want to be airmobile maybe
06:34:39 syv: Yeah I want to try transport aircraft.
06:34:58 syv: I think jump troops may be able to act as paratroopers? Functionally doing HALO deployment.
06:35:04 syv: Which is very likely worth it.
06:35:05 Egan: though that might just be adding extra steps to the equation which could just be "make soldiers fly"
06:35:35 Egan: there's a toggle to let foot troops rappel out of flying craft or not
06:35:52 syv: Aerocraft are WAAAY faster than troops, and it may make deployment less brutal if you don't just set everything to deploy instantly (I do this, it seems stupid)
06:37:17 syv: And before
Dev says that "infantry are slow, of course they can't deploy quickly", light jump infantry are FASTER than the safe speed of many mechs (five tiles, no move penalties, and 100% safe), and more directly my jet can travel like 40 hexes at top speed.
06:38:06 syv: But both still are set to deploy late almost always. And I don't want to watch the AI fuck around alone for several turns.
06:39:45 syv: Also it seems like heat is broken.
06:40:08 syv: I figured out that both flamers and inferno SRMs have a "mode" button which switches between dealing heat and damage.
06:40:22 syv: But... even in that mode, they still just deal normal damage.
06:42:55 Egan: I can improve my reputation if my commander improved command-y skills, I improve the average skill level of my combat personnel, and by a LOT if I actually own my own transport stuff
06:51:07 syv: What is your unit reputation?
06:51:15 Egan: hmm, my scenario is to help extract an allied Wasp
06:51:36 syv: ...Probably because being so infantry heavy means that my casualty rates would make Russia blush.
06:51:51 Egan: since that's a mobile light mech, this will either be easy or hard, depending on if the ally AI decides to jump away from danger or dive into the enemy
06:52:29 syv: I'm listed as having 0% mission success rather, despite having 1 defeat, 3 draws, 5 victories, and one decisive victory
06:53:08 syv: Ah I get -10 for transportation, of which I have zero.
06:53:24 syv: And -10 for having insufficient support staff.
06:53:41 Egan: It does suggest I might want to hire a couple more admins
06:53:45 syv: I'm supposed to have seven mech techs, and only have three. Despite not fielding mechd. :P
06:53:49 Egan: but I dunno if it'll actually help my rep
06:54:10 Egan: just how much infantry do you have? :p
06:54:20 syv: I technically have 1036 combat personnel
06:54:58 syv: And it feels dickish to fire a guy who tanked an anti-tank missile without at least patching him up first.
06:55:29 syv: Just like real life: medical costs will be the death of me.
06:56:19 syv: Ah it wants me to have mech transport because I do have a bunch of salvaged and mostly disassembled mechs.
06:56:32 syv: And enough techs to maintain the scrap heaps. :P
06:56:42 Egan: do infantry get missing limbs and stuff like mechwarriors do?
06:57:54 Egan: oh, hiring two extra admins did give me +5 rep
06:59:01 syv: Nah they get stupid trivial wounds
06:59:15 Egan: oh, dropships are expensive >.>
06:59:37 Egan: I guess I'll live with that particular -10 for a while
07:00:26 syv: Broken left foot, internal bleeding, broken back, severe internal bleeding, cerebral contusion, internal bleeding, concussion, sprained left leg, broken collar bone, broken right leg, bruised kidney, broken rib, sprained left arm...
07:00:33 syv: Nobody's missing any parts.
07:01:02 syv: No, one person who's being treated is stated to habe "lise her right arm"
07:01:10 syv: No UNTREATED missing limbs
07:01:42 Egan: that can happen, with missing limbs
07:06:06 Egan: they're a different skill and job from aerospace techs, which I'd assume
07:07:02 syv:
Dev said he doesn't know either
07:13:17 Egan: extraction of allied Flea in light urban
07:13:51 Egan: against two mechs, a heavy tank, and an AC carrier
07:15:56 syv: So there seems to be a campaign config option which allows flamers to deal heat damage (it splits damage between armor and heat automatically), but I'm having trouble testing it.
07:16:32 syv: The combat report doesn't *say* a mech "gained X heat", but I saw a mech which only fired a medlas sink 8 heat. And it was attacked by two flamer inf.
07:17:17 syv: So I tried to start a fight against some tougher mechs with damaged legs, guns, and heat sinks...
07:17:30 syv: But the AI refused to deploy crippled punching bags. -.-
07:19:09 Egan: ooh, option to let infantry use vehicles as cover
07:24:52 syv: The flamers *aren't* dealing heat damage, but the inferno SRMs are, and actually say it in the weapon phase
07:25:53 syv: Platoon with 10x inferno SRMs: hits with 18 troopers, causes 8 damage (converts to 4 heat).
07:26:15 syv: Platoon with 30x inferno SRMs: hits with 18 troopers, causes 6 damage (converts to 3 heat).
07:26:36 syv: I'm pretty sure I know why. 10x SRM platoon is padded with ARs.
07:26:56 syv: And inferno SRMs have significantly lower damage than normal SRMs and ARs.
07:27:10 syv: So the AR damage is getting added to the heat damage.
07:28:07 Devastator has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
07:30:40 syv: ...Oh the flamers *do* deal both heat and regular damage.
07:30:57 syv: The mech the two flamer units targeted gained 6 heat. They dealt...
07:31:17 syv: 6+13 regular armor damage.
07:32:01 syv: So 19 armor damage. And the mech took 5-6 heat (they gain heat from sprinting too, and it doesn't seem to be stated when this happens).
07:32:50 syv: So that's ~25-33% damage as heat.
07:33:49 syv: It's not really worth it to spend multiple platoons on heat, unless it allows me to skip sandpapering assault mechs.
07:34:28 syv: Lights already die easy, and mediums tend to start taking crits before too many hits. Only assaults are awful to kill.
07:36:29 syv: Looking through mechs, assaults cap out at 20 heat (without double sinks), and some have less.
07:36:43 syv: Though there's a rule that external heat is capped at 15.
07:40:09 syv: Max damage rating for jump SRM is 0.484 per man. It's optimistic to expect more than half to actually hit per round, so that's ~7 heat per hit. So I'd want around six to have serious odds of outpacing heatsinks. And even then they'd have trouble against mechs with cover, or at night, or on high-grav planets.
08:02:01 syv: Game says inferno SRM missiles are impossible to find.
08:02:12 syv: But I'm gonna GM them in so I can try the concept. :P
08:04:19 Egan: not really sure how to increase campaign parts availability, if that IS possible
08:20:50 Egan: first hit of the campaign! after missing an mlaser shot, my blackjack hits the enemy thunderbolt in the head with the AC-1, not getting through the armor but hurting the pilot for 1
08:21:13 Egan: the enemy pilot then rolls higher than a 2 and avoids being KOed
08:22:43 Egan: they shot out my searchlight D:
08:26:12 Egan: oh, an Mlaser shot at my blackjack missed, but hit the ground and started a bush fire right under it
08:27:32 Egan: I kinda like the delayed deployment here, since I had to hold out for a turn under fire before my actual heavies arrived, with just my blackjack and locust and the light I'm escorting
08:31:35 syv: Searchlights are dangerous to have
08:31:55 syv: They give you +3 to-hit, at least at night, but give you -3 defense.
08:32:08 syv: They also are destroyed easily.
08:32:08 Egan: ...now realizing that two of my archer's mlasers are *rear facing*
08:32:34 Egan: to watch you back while you wade in for fisticufs?
08:32:39 syv: Someone who is tactically incompetent and keeps getting flanked.
08:32:53 syv: Although maybe it's good against jumpy lights trying to get behind
08:42:54 Egan: ahh, evading keeps me from attacking.
08:49:33 syv: why would you ever do that
08:49:59 syv: It seems I was wrong about light/med/heavy/hardened buildings
08:50:23 syv: What really matters is building CF (construction factor), those are just shorthand, probably for the size of the CF roll.
08:50:35 syv: Lower the CF, the more damage bleeds to infantry inside.
08:51:24 syv: And even heavy buildings can have CF low enough for damage to bleed. No hardened ones in this map, sadly, but I've seen troops tank huge hits in hardened buildings.
08:51:57 Egan: finally my jump lasers arrive, but I dunno where to put em
08:52:29 syv: They should have 5x move if they're just lasers
08:52:44 Egan: yeah but all scatter forests
08:52:45 syv: 6 range, but strongest as melee, and pretty awful at 5-6.
08:52:59 syv: You actually want to have them jump into a new forest hex every turn.
08:53:18 syv: Jumping gives MORE defense than a light forest.
08:53:43 syv: If there's really no cover at all, then you may want to make them flee so they don't get melted too fast.
08:54:05 Egan: bah, maybe I should have deployed my archer further back, like way back
08:54:28 Egan: being an artillery boat but with good punchy hands is suffering
08:56:39 syv: Gah I hate garrison mechanics for infantry
08:56:59 syv: I used the "dig in" command inside a building
08:57:21 syv: I think that makes the troops go to the roof and dig in?
08:57:30 syv: Because they didn't get building defense when shot at
08:58:58 syv: ...yes, dig-in causes troops to fortify THE ROOF.
08:59:12 syv: And gives no defense bonus. ONLY negates "in the open" double damage.
09:02:12 syv: Man, even an 80 CF heavy building allows a med las to leak damage.
09:02:38 syv: And it's -4 difficulty to target.
09:03:10 syv: Unit counts as being in cover, but takes an essentially guaranteed 1 damage, vs the 2 damage of being in the open.
09:03:44 syv: Machine gun is at least reduced to 1 damage as well, rather than... ten damage, I think.
09:04:24 syv: Though it's still a guaranteed hit, and jumping to open space gives a relative +6 to defense...
09:07:06 Egan: "leg weapons cannot be fire while hull down"
09:07:15 Egan: ...I wasn't expecting to learn that today!
09:07:26 Egan: especially because legs weapons are really rare
09:07:37 Egan: really, an SRM-2 in the left leg?
09:14:19 Egan: aha, I have toppled over the enemy thunderbolt!
09:14:28 Egan: now for a little curbstomping
09:26:41 Egan: needs 5, rolls 3 times, gets a 4 each time
09:44:11 Egan: one of these civilian mechs seems to have wandered over to some rubble, tripped over it, and took damage trying to get back up
09:48:18 Egan: oh, uhh. time to open the memorial hall
09:52:43 syv: "LAY THE FUCK DOWN YOU IDIOT"
09:53:01 syv: TBH I wish I could just control the civvie and ally mechs
09:53:06 syv: They're always suicidal idiots
09:53:55 syv: Which kinda sucks, since my employer ALWAYS deploys at least one mech, and ALWAYS has that mech's survival as a mission goal.
09:54:32 Egan: you can control the ally, depending on the contract type
09:58:00 syv: I've not seen that but may have missed something
10:00:38 syv: ...A platoon of "light scouts" is available to hire.
10:00:52 syv: Veteran foot infantry armed with *auto pistols* and nothing else.
10:01:14 syv: They cost 2.1k to hire o.O
10:01:31 syv: That's more than worth it just for the vet troops
10:01:47 syv: They still have 1/1 movement despite not having rifles.
10:01:58 Egan: how can you tell they're vets?
10:02:00 syv: So they're literally just a crappier version of the crappiest infantry.
10:02:18 syv: 's skill level in the personnel market
10:02:34 Egan: do they have a lighter passenger weight than rifles?
10:03:06 Egan: ugh, I had my first death to a headshot and I don't feel like going on with that
10:03:14 syv: My 30x jumplas are 4.0 tons
10:03:30 syv: Yeah, mechs can really suffer from a lucky crit headshot,
10:03:59 syv: Also, the skill level displayed is what they'd have when deployed.
10:04:39 syv: The unit actually has 2 elites, 7 vets, 12 regulars, and 7 greens.
10:04:53 syv: ...Which should actually average out to "Regular" skill
10:05:03 syv: I didn't even hire a true veteran platoon!
10:11:40 syv: People with orange highlighted names are permanently injured.
10:11:51 syv: Probably because I didn't get to them fast enough,
10:12:07 syv: Feels bad to fire them, so I'll promote them all into admin, or logistics.
10:12:55 Egan: you can set them as dependants? :p
10:13:47 syv: But dependants get 0 Salary
10:13:57 syv: And the game wants me to have more admins anyway
10:14:25 syv: It'll let people understand what this company is like better if half the command staff have crippling injuries, anyway
10:15:29 Egan: interesting that the leader of the force is one of the mechwarriors by default rather than one of the admins
10:27:18 Egan has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
11:21:23 syv: The leader of my force is actually a medic now
11:21:49 syv: Sure, he has great mech stats, but I spent 5 XP to make him a basic medic... so he'd help with my injury problem, and gain passive XP.
11:22:00 syv: It's... technically working. He's gained a whole 3 XP so far!
11:22:22 syv: Keep butchering troops and he'll break even
12:00:03 syv has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
12:31:21 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
12:54:03 syv: Forgot to answer
Dev in PMs:
12:54:14 syv: Land infantry on that tile. :P
12:54:23 syv: Mechs can't target their own tile.
12:55:38 syv: Might be worth getting an actually competent anti-mech jump platoon for something like that. Swarm actions ignore a lot of penalties that normal attacks take.
12:57:31 Devastator has joined #einsteinianroulette
13:08:43 syv: Welcome back to the waking world
18:58:27 Devastator has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
21:02:40 syv has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:03:45 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
21:58:58 Devastator has joined #einsteinianroulette
22:35:09 Devastator: that's an xkce today,
syv.
22:43:15 parisbre56[Away] has joined #einsteinianroulette
22:43:15 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
22:43:15 Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
23:22:02 Egan has joined #einsteinianroulette
Log file '2024-04-06.log' ends.
42327 bytes processed.