00:18:09 Devastator: I don't think
syv is around.
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01:04:14 Devastator: you were catsitting.
01:04:17 Devastator: was catsitting gud?
01:07:39 Egan: got to have a quiet house to myself and cook for myself a little
01:13:50 Devastator: I'm really good at Yhatzee, actually.
01:21:57 Devastator: return of the Evil!
01:24:21 Devastator: well, they still have time from V.
01:24:29 Devastator: maybe they'll use the time.. and do something beneficial to V.
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02:40:55 Devastator: well, conquered zululand. Unfortunately a massive increase in SoL only removed about a third of the rebelliousness. ;-p
03:04:23 Devastator: zululand had shit tech and dirt poor people.
03:04:50 Devastator: after conquest they got richer due to better access to the global markets and basic tech for their buildings, making them more efficient.
03:05:03 Devastator: so everyone got basically three points richer.
03:05:13 Devastator: that was only enough to remove about a third of the angry people.
03:09:19 Devastator: The remainder will be angry for a few years and then they'll leave the country for another place. Probably communist Australia.
03:10:08 Devastator: They might try to start a rebellion, but I have far, far too many loyalists for any revolution to succeed. It's just that I have a lot of angry people too.
03:10:29 Devastator: I have all those loyalists because Haiti is the sixth richest country on the planet, ahead of both the UK and Germany.
03:10:51 Devastator: not in terms of raw GDP, but in general population wealth.
03:11:18 Devastator: unfortunately I can't integrate zululand quickly, because that would raise them an additional 2.5 ranks.
03:15:41 Devastator: double annoyingly I can't actually put in multiculturalism to drive the unaccepted population ratio to near-zero, unless I can get the intellectuals back in office.
03:15:51 Devastator: but anyway, I think I'm gonna start over again with another country.
03:17:34 Devastator: Maybe one of the organized central african states that gets a century of isolation before being hit by colonizers.
03:17:52 Devastator: and then after that I'll play something small and european.
03:17:55 Devastator: and then something asian.
03:19:37 Devastator: It should work better than Circassia did.
03:19:54 Devastator: (The country that held the region of Russia containing Soichi. Before it got conquered by Russia.)
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03:46:17 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
03:46:17 Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
03:51:01 Devastator: I'll go with Kanem Bornu, home of one of the more famous world conquests in EU3, when the game had both map painting and extreme penalties for non-EU states.
03:51:16 Devastator: not as famous as "The audacity of Hope."
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05:02:56 Egan: this floor is made out of floor
05:17:23 syv:
MJ is trying to talk me into doing actual gamedev
05:18:13 syv: I sent him an idle DM yesterday about how it'd be cool to see a tactical shooter take certain mechanics from Lethal Company, and he likes the idea too much.
05:18:20 syv: Now he wants me to make it...
05:22:05 syv: It shouldn't be, but it probably is.
05:22:29 syv: Really I just want to play a tactical shooter which has randomly generated environments, and has enemies who ALSO have guns.
05:22:36 syv: Ideally with Roguelite elements.
05:22:54 syv: I just want SWAT 4 with replayability. Or Ready Or Not with replayability.
05:23:13 Egan: so infinite kowloon roguelite shooter
05:23:42 syv: There's lots of Roguelite shooters, but they all center around strafing/dodging mechanics
05:23:54 syv: Where you're the only person with a gun
05:23:59 Egan: dense procgen urban envrionments so that you can swat to your heart's content
05:24:28 Devastator: you want to play a FPS version of teleglitch?
05:24:31 syv: I don't care if it's a tiny niche, it's a completely empty niche
05:24:52 syv: Though I'm unsure how many enemies are shooty in teleglitch
05:25:00 Egan: personally I like the boomshoot formula better, the reason why enemies don't have guns is that it's easier to build a game around dodging projectiles than bullets
05:25:02 Devastator: later on, quite a few.
05:25:11 syv: Rouge Effect is a better example really, that'd a cover based shooter roguelike.
05:25:22 Devastator: hah, enemies who have guns and tactical shooters..
05:25:39 Devastator: it's not random, but it's as hard as you could possibly want such a thing.
05:25:42 syv: ...Does Descent have rando--
05:25:42 Egan: moving at ten billion meters per second and surviving by obliterating everything before it can touch you is not realitic, but it's very fun
05:26:05 Devastator: for randomness, sounds like you want competitive shooters.
05:26:09 syv: But it doesn't scratch the itch
05:26:24 Devastator: not AI, but the shrinking arena shooters.
05:26:28 syv: No, competitive shooters have extremely static maps, and very much have metas about how to move
05:26:44 syv: And I don't like playing against equally matched opponents
05:26:57 syv: By definition, you should lose about half the time in comp shooters
05:27:06 Devastator: you could probably set up one of those on a generated map, and fill it mostly with bad opponents.
05:27:10 syv: That may actually be part of why this isn't a thing though
05:27:29 Devastator: most people lose more than half the time.
05:27:31 Devastator: it's how they work.
05:27:31 syv: Most people just play counter strike or something to scratch this itch
05:27:51 Devastator: better people win more than half, and the downslope is longer than the upslope.
05:28:22 Egan: counter strike or tarkov :p
05:28:56 Devastator: I'm still somewhat in awe that CS is still a thing.
05:29:00 Devastator: I was around when it was new.
05:29:28 Egan: yup, and it's the first FPS that valve made in their new engine ;-;
05:29:42 syv: A mod of Tarkov which does this would actually be godly perfect
05:29:54 syv: Because Tarkov does a few mechanics amazingly and then the rest HORRIBLY
05:30:14 syv: Which also reminds me of an issue with PvP shooters
05:30:25 Devastator: always a huge issue.
05:30:31 syv: The number of wallhackers in Tarkov is insane
05:30:37 Devastator: you can fight it, but there's always gonna be a bunch of that.
05:30:48 Egan: at least there's an arena game of tarkov now so that you can at least play the gunplay stuff in a more CS style rather than the slow loot crawl BS
05:31:15 syv: I don't want to pay the devs of Tarkov >.>
05:31:16 Egan: yeah, but it makes you grind hard to get good equipment
05:31:26 syv: Yeah okay that makes it an easy choice
05:31:27 Egan: and is still tarkov, and multiplayer, and on fixed maps
05:32:36 Egan: yeah it starts you with bad loadouts and it takes a big long time to unlock better stuff, and there's no loadout based matchmaking so you'll be matched with people with arbitarilly good guns and armor
05:32:56 Egan: in a game which already costs full price! :D
05:33:35 Devastator: Mind you, having no gear advantage but a ridiculous skillcap isn't much better..
05:48:39 syv: But it's still notably bettee
05:53:18 Devastator: I mean.. yeah, in theory.
05:54:51 syv: Okay, I mentioned GRP in a PM a minute ago, but GRP
05:55:30 Devastator: Yeah, but getting whored by vets sucks pretty much as much.
05:55:35 syv: Being veteran in that meant I had great gear from the start, and when they "properly" released the game on steam and there was an influx of newbies, it was *very* apparent the gear advantage was unfair
05:55:53 syv: It meant they couldn't beat me even by outplaying me, which rarely happened
05:56:14 Devastator: Yeah, I mean, yeah.
05:56:22 Devastator: but I did live through a 12 month period of no wins.
05:56:27 syv: There's a very specific kind of guilt you feel after a guy sneaks up behind you, shoots you in the back of the head, and does so little damage you can 180 and doubletap his face for an instakill.
05:57:37 syv: I luckily had kept my beta gear, so when I was having a good day I'd reverse this and equip the crappiest gear from launch, which was at the time unattainable (they completely replaced the full armory after steam release).
05:58:06 syv: That still didn't make it fair against newbies, because vet vs newb... but at least they *did* kill me occasionally.
05:58:12 Egan: a kind of guilt which surely tarkov players are immune to
05:58:31 syv: They stack cheats on top of it
06:10:01 Devastator: But yeah, that's assholes for you.
06:11:11 syv: I like shooters where I can mow down enemies and not feel bad for them not having fun
06:12:03 Devastator: I sandbag when that happens. ;-p
06:13:33 Devastator: but yeah, some games are fine for that.
06:13:40 Devastator: other games it's just you being stupid.
06:15:53 Devastator: never felt guilty when I did good in World of Tanks, for instance.
06:27:15 syv: Which is REALLY disappointing
06:27:26 syv: Because I find it as a link off of a tech demo on Itch.
06:27:44 syv: Where he made a procgen "gigastructure" inspired by the environment in BLAME.
06:27:54 syv: Which would be absolutely perfect IMO
06:28:15 syv: I guess that was too hard, so he decided to make a flat procgen world. But hey, it's a procgen shooter,
06:28:58 syv: This looks like it might be fun just to look at though
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07:03:32 syv: ...Only now realize it's the same guy
07:03:49 syv: I was about to say "this scratches the itch, despite being a super bare bones tech demo"
07:04:15 syv: I was literally just thinking "maybe I'll look up the
dev and email him to ask if I can mod this trivial little thing"
07:04:37 syv: But no, he's making an actual game, that seems to just... be iterating on this basic concept
07:06:12 Egan: though putting your hopes in some single rando indie
dev with an undefined release schedule isn't ideal, exactly
07:07:49 syv: Frankly it's better than putting my hopes in myself
07:21:55 Devastator: hey, I'm a rando indy and apparently I made something someone likes.
07:23:43 syv: This ProcGun game is actually ridiculously solid, what the hell
07:23:57 syv: It's so simple but I've had several really exciting moments
07:24:15 Devastator: oh man, that takes me back.
07:24:26 Devastator: all the best stuff in the early internet was some random thing made by one dude.
07:26:59 syv: I should stream this sometime
07:27:06 syv: It'd get old fairly quick but it's neat
07:27:22 syv: And this is absolutely good enough for me to just open occasionally when I want to shoot people
07:27:32 syv: Definitely wishlisting his actual game
07:30:04 Egan: I enjoy a simple fun game
07:30:29 Devastator: DROD still any good?
07:31:17 Egan: that is not a simple game
07:32:00 Devastator: you're a man with a sword.
07:37:37 syv: I've wanted to play a couple times, and haven't because I mean to stream it for you
07:38:15 syv: Do be prepared for annoyance,
Egan. The enemies have varied guns and gear, but you don't.
07:38:24 syv: Also if you reload you lose the mag, even if it's full.
07:38:56 syv: Enemy drops are random, so you can get unlucky and only get HP or only get ammo (though if you're ammo efficient, over the long term it's pretty fine)
07:39:04 syv: Seems to get harder over time but I'm not sure
07:39:46 Egan: I'm always prepared for annoyance!~
07:43:16 Devastator: feel free to poke me then if you do want to stream it.
07:43:24 Devastator: and I don't need to watch every minute.
08:19:10 syv: Yeah, Proc-Gun gets harder with levels
08:19:25 syv: Died on Room 9, it tracks it in the lower left of the screen
08:20:32 syv: That room seemed to have an enemy with a full-auto shotgun spawned right outside the starting room. Along with a squad of normal guys. I wasn't aware that could happen, so I had no cover and had to run back to the starting train-pod-thing.
08:20:43 syv: Killed most of his squad then left and he shot me around the corner.
08:21:15 syv: The AI is pretty good. It's slightly too aware of the player's location, but it flanks and ambushes and tries to maintain its weapon's ideal range.
08:21:33 syv: Snipers usually stay back (though they do occasionally rush too), shotgunners charge.
08:34:05 Devastator: sounds like a good time.
08:35:17 Egan: sounds like it needs co-op ;p
08:35:20 syv: Yeah I love this little tech demo
08:47:42 syv: Same mistake, I was getting overconfident >.<
08:47:55 Devastator: I'm up for a stream.
08:49:22 syv: Steam's weird with non-steam games, tell me if there's issues
08:50:41 syv: you should be able to click on my game and choose "ask to watch"
08:51:05 Devastator: yeah, that's not working.
08:51:23 Devastator: The only weapon you need.
08:51:45 Devastator: go kill stuff! It looks simple!
08:52:21 Devastator: Glorious 2010s bloom.
08:53:27 Devastator: you got a lot of health that last room.
08:54:14 Devastator: good job shooting that guy in the dick.
08:54:57 Devastator: maybe gun #3 isn't implemented yet.
08:55:49 Devastator: It's 2 skill and F-?
08:56:07 Devastator: (The melee attack.)
08:58:59 Devastator: I'm imagining this as an Alida simulator now. No gun, you're much faster, and you have lethal melee attacks and more health. But a bigger model, too.
09:00:38 Devastator: some more variety would be nice.
09:00:52 Devastator: more building sets.
09:01:27 Devastator: nah, it'd be fixed.
09:02:03 Devastator: and you're back at full health.
09:04:17 Devastator: yeah, should have some streets, building-heavy european city maps, office maps..
09:04:21 Devastator: could use a couple more.
09:05:04 Devastator: the obligatory factory and parking garage, and then an urban park.
09:05:54 Devastator: I would say no, you didn't kill the guy.
09:07:59 Devastator: sin against modelling.
09:08:19 Devastator: well, better than every gun being an AK.
09:09:42 Devastator: he's dead, that was his drop there.
09:28:42 syv: It starts getting hard after 5
09:30:34 Egan: does the lean not actually lean for you
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09:33:43 syv: I think lean is affecting your character model
09:33:58 syv: So you shuffle to the side when you lean, despite your point of aim being steady
09:44:13 syv: Streets is the lethal map purely because it always opens on a wide highway area
09:44:28 syv: So you'll often get a lot of enemies right outside the door, with no real chokepoint
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22:15:52 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
22:15:52 Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
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