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02:46:37 ChanServ changed topic of #einsteinianroulette to: MJ should read Extinction!
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06:49:57 syv: Welcome to #einsteinianroulette
06:58:10 syv: Your Colne action isn't really valid
06:58:15 syv: Only Asaka heard that voice
07:01:00 Devastator: yes,
ER said as much.
07:01:04 Devastator: Didn't realize that.
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07:13:06 Devastator:
ER then rolled to see if I could hear it, I failed, so I'm gonna change orders.
08:00:35 sy: My char has to wait on Saki to make an action really, and Saki's having her big exam today.
08:00:59 sy: So it'll be a bit before I send one
08:09:54 syv: For a brief moment I was very surprised you only wanted to disarm the enemy.
08:35:07 Devastator: I don't believe we're taking prisoners here.
08:35:11 Devastator: or if we are, someone should say that.
08:39:41 syv: Yeah, I think we're killing anything which gets in our way.
08:39:57 syv: Do you think Asaka should try and use necromancy to take control of these things?
08:40:03 Devastator: I'm totally willing to try to capture people with a bird that's the size of a drinking glass.
08:40:24 Devastator: That does sound interesting.
08:40:35 Devastator: might get the zombie to throw the rifle off the side.
08:40:37 syv: Alright I need to get Saki to draw the party.
08:40:41 Devastator: ..how big do you think kestrels are?
08:41:04 syv: "Kestrel" is just a type of bird that a ship in FTL is named for.
08:41:09 syv: That is the limit of my knowledge
08:41:12 Devastator: And many other things, yes.
08:44:34 syv: Alright I'm going to need a drawable description of the kestrel's weaponry.
08:46:18 Devastator: essentially it's a thin blade about two-thirds the length of the bird, with a crossbar attached to essentially metal gauntlets.
08:46:29 Devastator: sharp on both sides.
08:47:01 Devastator: essentially the bird must let it swing down by changing direction, to add to the power of the strike. It'd probably be a little broader at the end, like an axe.
08:49:18 Devastator: yes, but it has to peck the gaunlets open to actually drop the blade.
08:49:28 Devastator: well that is, use its beak to do that.
08:53:09 syv: I'm visualizing a choppy sword, mounted somewhat like those edgy claws, to the part of the leg the ring is around in that photo.
08:53:56 syv: It's literally this, isn't it?
08:56:18 Devastator: that seems to be in individual legs, which for various reasons wouldn't work.
08:56:34 Devastator: can't do momentum properly like that.
08:57:34 Devastator: wow, those attack animations are silly.
08:57:42 Devastator: and yes, really smol.
08:57:53 syv: I mean, it's a bird with swords on its feet
08:58:22 syv: Could you possibly make that in any way threatening and *not* have it be silly?
08:58:26 Devastator: yes. If you're gonna do individual feet just make it like sharper feet gloves.
08:59:20 syv: Alright. So, does the bird like... wield a sword, just with its feet? Or is it attached to one foot and the other holds on?
09:00:41 Devastator: there's a crossbar that it actually holds onto.
09:01:02 Devastator: it changes grip tightness to give more or less friction, but it can swing around.
09:02:03 Devastator: so when it hits things with it, it swoops in and changes direction a bit, to let the sword cut the target.
09:03:16 syv: Where would it be held when the bird is resting/not in combat?
09:05:09 Devastator: Probably drops it or just stands on it.
09:05:24 Devastator: outside of combat the sword-thing wouldn't be there.
09:06:52 Devastator: You'd have to ask
ER about that.
09:06:56 Devastator: but yes, it'd be helpful.
09:07:11 Devastator: outside of combat it wouldn't be carrying it.
09:09:06 syv: I was thinking of a picture with Emily and Bird riding on Asaka's shoulders.
09:09:17 syv: But could have bird flying, to justify the visibility of the sword.
09:18:16 syv: From my understanding of swords, #1 is actually the most practical, but kukris feel more axey to me. Just harder to use effectively.
09:18:25 Devastator: third one seems closest.
09:18:41 Devastator: it'd really want to be wider near the end.
09:19:17 Devastator: also do something with the guard that'd make sense.
09:19:28 Devastator: it wouldn't be like a handguard.
09:21:30 syv: I have no ability to visualize it honestly
09:23:05 Devastator: I don't know, some kinda rubber ring thing? ;-p
09:23:20 Devastator: just to make it slightly harder for the bird to hit itself.
09:25:11 Devastator: I would have went with foot gloves if it was 'small blades'
09:27:35 syv saves conversation to notes
09:27:58 syv: Alright, it'll be awhile before this gets drawn. Life is stress for the artist.
09:28:23 syv: In completely different news, I found a different site for browser Advance Wars.
09:28:34 syv: Uses Days of Ruin mechanics instead of AW2
09:31:38 syv: The site has *multiple* built in tutorials, albeit terribly translated. Seems to be a Chinese project which has an English version.
09:32:11 syv: DoR has much better unit variety and balance, particularly with naval units, which aren't absolute shit.
09:33:26 syv: I like how it handles COs, too. They have both DoR unit-boarding COs, and AW2 global side COs, with somewhat better balancing than AWBW. Though no tiers, unfortunately.
09:33:56 syv: I am seriously confused as to why AWBW has such terribly balanced COs.
09:33:59 Devastator: DoR COs are more imbalanced.
09:34:06 Devastator: like way, way WAY worse.
09:34:38 syv: I don't know how bad they are between each other, maybe they're terribly broken.
09:35:01 Devastator: they're really, really REALLY broken.
09:35:16 Devastator: go look up Caulder's abilities. ;-p
09:35:43 syv: I was referring to the imported COs, which have generally been knocked down a bit if high tier, and raised a bit if low tier. Kanbei is +20/20, and Koal is +20/0, +1 move from roads, for instance.
09:35:51 syv: Which doesn't make them balanced.
09:36:16 syv: But it's closer than AWBW, where those two are +30/30 and +10/0 nothing.
09:36:36 Devastator: ahh, yeah, that's a philosophical issue.
09:36:44 Devastator: 'do we rebalance COs?'
09:37:39 syv: I've already run into annoyance with you playing Max.
09:38:40 Devastator: so we do mirror matches, or different rules, or choose COs by agreement.
09:38:43 syv: If I play in Tier 2 with you, I'm forced to play a specific playstyle because all T2 COs have a specific strategy (and I don't like any of them). If I go to T1, I'm taking an advantage, and if I go to T3/4 I'm conceding an advantage.
09:40:50 Devastator: but I don't have to play Max.
09:42:07 syv: Eh, I still would like to try beating you with Jess.
09:42:43 syv: She's a down tier but I don't entirely see why. Has a big disadvantage with infantry, but is otherwise pretty similar and gets usable indirects.
09:43:32 syv: Also gonna go with Lash on that 2v1 map you found. Pretty sure she can match Max on it.
09:49:55 Devastator: but yes, Kestrels are small.
09:50:17 syv: Caulder without a nerf is actually not nearly as bad as he sounds. Defense works differently.
09:51:21 syv: +50% defense, but in DoR defense works by (damage/(100+defense bonuses)). So Caulder on plains gives 100/(100+50+10)=0.625 damage multiplier.
09:51:21 syv: AWBW Kanbei on plains receives 0.6x damage
09:52:52 syv: Caulder has a bigger damage buff which is harder to mitigate though, and absurd healing
09:52:57 Devastator: Does he get insta-50% healing?
09:53:44 Devastator: Yes. I can see why they went with the philosophy of 'we must rebalance COs' when they started with DoR.
09:55:01 Devastator: Kanbei is nothing compared to Caulder.
09:55:11 syv: They nerf him to 2 radius, +25/25, +2 HP every turn, and it costs money.
09:55:26 syv: Kanbei's strong enough it doesn't really matter, is the problem.
09:55:35 syv: He's just not fun and breaks the game.
10:00:13 syv: They did fail to nerf Colin and Hachi though
10:02:15 Devastator: they're also broken.
10:02:34 Devastator: do they just hate Kanbei in particular?
10:04:08 syv: Mmm, no, they did nerf Colin somewhat, but I think he'd still be OP. He gets -10% def D2D, and his SCOP is much weaker, but he still unit spams and still cheats to get more money.
10:05:09 Devastator: His SCOP isn't what's broken about him.
10:05:18 Devastator: -10% def would matter somewhat, though.
10:05:23 syv: Yes. Hence I said he'd be OP.
10:06:54 syv: I think Hachi isn't touched at all. His power miiight taken longer to charge, but even if so "he uses it less often" is nowhere near enough to balance "get double money and way more bases".
10:07:23 syv: He might also not get the passive +10/10 he gets in AWBW, but that doesn't actually matter at all.
10:08:00 syv: So Hachi is still king I guess, unless boarding COs somehow top that.
10:09:02 Devastator: There's also Sensai.
10:09:02 syv: Boarding COs strike me as being dependant on map size. Caulder is OP as fuck, yeah, but in a big map with three/four fronts I think he could be walled and lose elsewhere against D2D COs.
10:09:36 Devastator: He's in two places at once, at least, since you can move him.
10:11:11 syv: Sensei still gets unit spawning, so he's broken.
10:11:37 syv: He might even be slightly stronger, since his Bcopter buff applies to dusters, so he wouldn't be unable to hit fighters I think?
10:12:12 syv: Man why not wait his spawns at least.
10:12:20 Devastator: his bcopter buff applies to dusters too?
10:12:45 syv: +30% offense to Bcopter/Duster
10:12:59 syv: +50% to Mech/inf. Oddly enough, not bikes.
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10:16:55 syv: I guess Sensei *is* nerfed a little. Checking AWBW, he's +50 to copters and +40 to mechs. They nerf him to 30 for both, and his powers don't buff infantry. But... his SCOP will still give him a fuckton of mechs for free. Still broken.
10:22:22 syv: He doesn't get a passive offense buff to indirects. That's basically it. His powers also don't provide the global +10% offense most powers do.
10:24:02 syv: Javier... is totally reworked, actually. He basically increases the effect of promotions, rather than making comm towers affect def. Which amusingly wouldn't be so broken simply because def doesn't work the same.
10:24:13 syv: And his powers just pile on defense.
10:24:29 syv: Oh, they promote his troops
10:24:56 syv: That's strong but I have no idea how it really compares to other things.
10:27:14 syv: Sturm is literally identical except he doesn't have -20/+20 stats, and his powers only give +0/10 rather than +10/10
10:33:13 syv: Ah. Hachi's SCOP is changed to 8 stars from 5. COP is still 3. Still broken.
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10:34:17 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
10:34:17 Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
10:34:49 syv: Mmm, maybe not. 50% offense is big.
10:35:03 syv: And Caulder should be much more capable of rushinf.
10:37:17 syv: Given time, Hachi could get double the functional income, but he'd definitely lose earlygame, and it'd be hard to leverage double unit cost against +50/30 units and healing. If the fronts are big he might be able to wall, but I doubt his SCOP would come fast enough to do that well enough.
11:04:07 syv: I need to wake up earlier so I can arguw with you at a more reasonable time
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11:59:05 sy: Thinking about it more (I can't stop), I think Hachi *could* reasonably beat vanilla Caulder even in a small map, though it's Caulder's game to lose. Caulder's power is dependant on his CO unit, so there's a keystone. If you can kill that in one turn, he's down to a 100/100 CO with no boons at all. A misplay could hurt the player very badly. Moreover, this changes how Caulder plays.
12:00:13 sy: If the match goes on long enough without Caulder gaining substantial advantages, Hachi will win due to unit count. +50/30 isn't enough to offset half income I don't think.
12:00:50 sy: But being too aggressive could open his CO up to getting sniped.
12:01:08 sy: Not being aggressive enough could lead to being econ starved.
12:01:28 sy: Caulder would still be tier -1 or -2, heh
12:02:17 sy: Would make a good AI opponent though.
12:02:35 sy: I like the fact that awdor has AI.
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20:46:43 Devastator: had a conversation with
syv about what birb is actually armed with.
20:48:35 Devastator: might be a picture, but basically it's a sword with a handle that's shaped like a bar, at 90 degrees so the blade's parallel with the length of the bird.
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