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02:24:15 MJ: Ah yeah, viruses just generally suck
02:31:07 Devastator: the author of Hark! A Vagrant did a graphic novel about her two years in the tar sands.
02:35:59 MJ: One of my distant relative was like a chief engineer for one of the oil companies in Oklahoma back in like the 20's.
02:36:25 Devastator: I didn't go myself, but a lot of people my age did.
02:36:41 Devastator: She's from Cape Breton Island, who sent huge numbers of people.
02:37:02 MJ: Does Canda do a lot of fracking?
02:37:12 Devastator: Tar sands are different.
02:37:34 Devastator: open pit mines for oil or steam injection techniques.
02:37:43 MJ: Huh pit mine for oil, that sounds weird
02:37:53 Devastator: There's not much actual conventional oil in Canada.
02:38:07 Devastator: little bits here and there and a little bit more off Newfoundland, but not tons.
02:38:22 MJ: You guys have some weird natural rescources, everything seems either absurdly pure or very odd to extract :P
02:38:26 Devastator: Nigh-infinite quantities of tar sands.
02:39:03 Devastator: always expensive and very heavy, but it's basically infinite.
02:39:22 Devastator: takes a lot of work to dig it out and wash it. And water.
02:39:35 MJ: Makes sense if it's mixed in with sand tar
02:40:02 Devastator: it's more 'bitumen' sands. Thick black stuff you mine.
02:40:16 Devastator: lots of sulfur too.
02:40:37 MJ: Ah, so you mine it like coal but it's actually oil
02:40:59 Devastator: Not really, but sure.
02:41:26 MJ: heh, there's lots of terrible coal in alabama so I'm familiar with coal.
02:41:29 Devastator: Nah, it's its own thing.
02:41:50 Devastator: anyway, when she was there was during the height of the boom, and she went to various places.
02:44:28 Devastator: They're near Fort MacMurray in Alberta if you want to look at them from satellite.
02:45:40 Devastator: The headwaters of the river that washes them was the glacier I took
syv on.
02:45:56 MJ: Looks like mud that you can mine
02:46:13 Devastator: Yeah, I suppose that's a way to look at it.
02:46:34 Devastator: Anyway, that's how it's been for Cape Breton forever. They send their kids off and about half of them come back.
02:47:06 Devastator: But it's remarkably lovely in Cape Breton.
02:47:27 Devastator: <Parents worried about kid going off at age 22.>
02:47:39 Devastator: "When you were younger than I was you went to Ontario to work in car factories."
02:48:16 MJ: heh, when I was in colorado I met a dude form Alabama who was working for a fracking company in wyoming, sounded similar
03:00:28 Devastator: It was a little more than that when she went to the Tar Sands.
03:00:55 Devastator: Everyone was from Newfoundland or Cape Breton or somewhere like that in Atlantic Canada.
03:01:09 Devastator: it was like 40% of everyone on site.
03:02:12 Devastator: Another 10% or so would be from BC, and another 20% or so would be from overseas.
03:02:20 Devastator: The remaining 10% were Albertans.
03:15:36 MJ: My taste in music has definetly degraded in med school, I'm listening to something called noisepunk...it is apptly named
03:16:14 Devastator: Oontz Oontz Oontz Oontz.
03:16:58 MJ: It's more a lot shouting and curseing while poorly tuned guitars play in the background. It's kinda sick.
03:19:30 Devastator: What's the Oontz Oontz Oontz genre?
03:19:35 ER: eh, not as good as breakcore ;)
03:19:39 Devastator: But yeah, that sounds pretty good actually.
03:19:57 Devastator: A lot of times I find those noise genres unlistenable, but this one has melody.
03:20:20 Devastator: I could get into that, yeah.
03:20:36 Devastator: Nah, not gonna say you've got bad taste.
03:20:45 Devastator: That's just fine by me, music-wise.
03:21:42 Devastator: No, that's my kind of noise.
03:24:16 ER: I think I get wierded out more easily by overly standard or formulaeic music than highly experimental kinds
03:24:32 MJ: Yeah I'm kinda the same way
ER.
03:24:41 MJ: Also I looked up breakcore and it's pretty good
03:56:38 Devastator: we watching more eps?
03:56:58 Devastator: anyone wanna poke him on Discord?
04:03:26 ER: would be getting to work around now
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04:08:57 Devastator: so can macrophages survive on bacteria?
04:09:55 MJ: The answer is kind of. They would need oxygen eventually.
04:10:12 MJ: And I'm not tottaly sure how many nutrients they actually get
04:10:23 MJ: But they definetly get some nutrients
04:11:16 Devastator: oxygen should be ok.
04:11:19 Devastator: they're still in blood.
04:12:29 MJ: I don't think they only live off it, but if they're hungry they will apperently hunt for more bacteria, so it suggets they get something from it
04:14:11 syv: I'm happy I guessed that they'd need an oxygen source
04:14:15 MJ: BUt now you want one grant and suddenly they're all uhh, you need an actual PhD and not be an undergraduate.
04:15:42 syv: I was told there may be anime?
04:16:25 MJ: Can't be up for like super late though
04:17:30 ER: I don't have any of this downloaded and also don't feel like it so I'm just gonna go pay attention to something else
04:19:49 MJ: How in fuck did this guy get dengue
04:19:52 Devastator: wonder what life is for a body cell.
04:19:57 Devastator: 'be part of the wall'
04:20:01 Devastator: 'repair your building.'
04:20:32 Devastator: okay, what's going on here?
04:20:48 MJ: Uhh, essentially virus has caused a histamine storm
04:20:54 syv: I think body cells just live in a house and maintain it
04:21:07 MJ: Where you body completly and utterly freaks out and just turns on all of the inflamation proccesses at once
04:21:16 syv: Was that the sandwich factory?
04:21:25 Devastator: I still want it in the actual show.
04:21:26 MJ: The exact reason why I'm not tottlay sure. Ie I don't really rmeber
04:21:30 syv: The people working on an assembly line?
04:21:42 Devastator: worked on too many assembly lines myself.
04:21:46 MJ: Also you know what's fuckign annoying, no one knows why syhpillis causes disease
04:22:03 Devastator: fuck, I should have talked about that job with your dad,
syv.
04:22:04 MJ: Fucking great masequerader and no one knows how the fuck it works
04:22:19 syv: He has a lot of bad job stories
04:22:35 Devastator: It wasn't a super bad job, but I wonder what he would have made of a job where I'm literally on a tree factory.
04:23:06 MJ: Don't fuck with the mast cells
04:23:10 syv: I think I've mentioned that job to him, actually
04:23:17 MJ: They create a lot of problems
04:23:31 Devastator: we haven't seen Mast cell be really needed before.
04:23:37 Devastator: when do you really need them?
04:24:02 MJ: I'll be tottaly honest...I don't rember, I mostly just know them as the alarm system coordinator.
04:24:22 Devastator: So that's Skin Tree Bro?
04:24:34 MJ: Ah, this is how he got denge
04:24:49 MJ: I don't think that's how you get dengue
04:25:55 Devastator: diseases that target immune cells are the worst.
04:26:04 MJ: I'm like 80% sure that's not how you get dengue
04:26:09 MJ: But I could be tottally wrong
04:26:34 syv: I didn't know mosquitos infected you with Isshin
04:26:49 MJ: Dengue is tottally different
04:27:00 MJ: ...Fuck now I've forgotten what dengue is
04:27:14 MJ: Fuck, I knew this for a while
04:27:14 Devastator: Ahh, Mystery Blue Man.
04:27:54 MJ: I'll be honest I don't know blue guy.
04:28:03 MJ: Fuck, I thought dengue is hemoraghic
04:28:17 Devastator: which was in S1 as 'immune cell we really don't know what the fuck it does.'
04:28:54 MJ: Basophils are just like, yeah, they're here, hell if I know what they do.
04:29:04 MJ: the maids are killer T right?
04:29:13 Devastator: Maids are macrophages.
04:29:26 syv: Killer T are the military dudes in black
04:29:29 Devastator: Killer Ts are the soldier guys with the hats.
04:29:36 syv: White protag boy is neutrophil
04:29:41 Devastator: Natural Killers are the female commando soldiers.
04:31:32 Devastator: yeah, macrophages being maids makes perfect sense.
04:31:36 Devastator: they clean stuff up, right?
04:31:46 MJ: Yeah I know nohting about Acne
04:31:57 MJ: I know there's some particular bug that does but I don't rember it
04:32:25 MJ: Also because like my clinical micro proffesor was so incompetent she taught us the wrong bacteria caused it so I don't rember which one is the righ tone
04:33:05 syv: Heh. "What in the body happened?"
04:33:27 MJ: Ah yeah cebum is like what lets your hair move around I think, it also has some kind of antimicrobial thing?
04:33:49 MJ: I dunno, like I said that proffesor sucked and we haven't gotten to this in actual med school yet
04:35:46 MJ: Yeah pus is pretty much that
04:37:28 MJ: I love that this is also a monster show.
04:38:48 MJ: I know your body will eventually kill them. which is why acne fades, but yeah I got no idea
04:39:29 syv: I'm expecting the body to wash its pores
04:40:06 MJ: Oh I see, it's causing it to puss out
04:40:19 MJ: Which is about as gross as it sounds.
04:41:18 MJ: I love that he is literally covered in blood at pretty much all points in time. Which is pretty accruate for neutrophils.
04:41:34 MJ: Their whole job is smear themselves with with the blood of their enemies
04:41:37 Devastator: or in this case, blood and sebum.
04:42:16 MJ: One thing I love about this show is how it really does show just how big the body is to the cells
04:42:33 MJ: Like your body is unfathomably huge to each cell.
04:42:41 Devastator: bigger than the entire planet is to us.
04:43:24 syv: Show seems to make it be more like a very large city or a very small country
04:43:27 MJ: Yeah, every possible conflict is like a 40K war, entire megacities fall and are reborn everytime you get a cut or a scrape, everytime you break a bone is like tectonic plates shifting.
04:44:00 MJ: Anyway, I got one more in me and then bed.
04:44:26 syv: How much does a cut off hand bleed?
04:44:47 MJ: Enough to kill you eventually, it would spurt.
04:45:21 MJ: But as I recall there are times it can actually do some weird thing with the artery and you sometimes survive.
04:47:14 syv:
MJ, what do you think the little cutesy mewling dots are?
04:47:38 MJ: I'm looking through my netter books for wrist amputaiton
04:48:51 Devastator: we just got past the title card.
04:49:12 MJ: oh wow, there's a whole section on amputation
04:49:41 Devastator: This guy is in for a bad time.
04:50:00 syv: Can immune cells get cancer?
04:50:15 syv: Is there anything notable about that?
04:51:17 MJ: Which is a bacteria in your stomach that causes ulcers and stomach cancer
04:51:38 Devastator: I do like how dumb they are sometimes.
04:51:45 MJ: Your immune system can't really do much about it because it's in the stomach and is incredibly resisstnat to acid
04:51:57 MJ: It's weird that it's shown like this
04:52:20 MJ: ...Wait, this might be some intracellular pathogen or something.
04:52:27 MJ: Maybe different form hypylori.
04:52:42 Devastator: wait, he has two knives?
04:52:49 Devastator: ..have we ever seen his back?
04:52:52 syv: I think he has more than two
04:53:04 MJ: An immmune cell would never turn his back on a cell.
04:53:10 syv: He often dual wields, and usually continues to do so even after losing knives
04:53:10 Devastator: "I'm gonna break the door down."
04:53:18 MJ: So maybe it's supposed to be like uhh.
04:53:26 MJ: I can't rembert the fucking name
04:54:16 Devastator: yeah, that's more than two knives.
04:54:16 MJ: Damnit, what the hell is the name of the fucking normal intracellular thing
04:54:46 MJ: I know chlamydia does it but this is clearlly not chlamydia.
04:54:49 syv: Six on his back, two thighs
04:54:52 Devastator: ..yeah, could be eight.
04:54:58 MJ: Fuck, it's like Z something
04:55:04 Devastator: I wonder how many katanas the ones from Black have.
04:55:09 MJ: No wait that's what treats it
04:55:45 Devastator: Maybe this is H. Pylori.
04:55:51 Devastator: and the little guys are something else.
04:55:55 MJ: Okay, now this is what I was excepting H. Pylori to look like
04:56:03 MJ: Big angry and tough as fucking shit
04:56:28 Devastator: It's so good watching this with someone who knows this stuff.
04:56:51 MJ: Maybe he's using commensual bacteria? But H. Pylori doesn't really fuck with it.
04:57:00 MJ: What the fuck are the tiny things
04:57:13 Devastator: ..aren't there lots of bacteria that live in the body just fine?
04:57:32 Devastator: that might explain why they look cute.
04:57:38 MJ: But IIRC C. diff is the one that's scared of commensual bacteria
04:58:13 MJ: Maybe H. Pylori is also scared of commensual.
04:58:47 syv: Yeah they're friendly, neutrophil saved them
04:59:07 Devastator: ..do they hulk out in acid?
05:00:17 MJ: IIRC they help keep H. Pylori from actually eating.
05:00:52 MJ: IIRC they also don't live in the stomach, but I could be wrong about that.
05:01:26 MJ: But yeah, they essentially eat all the nutrients that other angrier bacteria would use.
05:01:44 MJ: And thus your body mostly just flashes them the thumbs up and murders anything that tries to eat the
05:02:23 MJ: Oh right, that's why it's thought that H. pylori could plausibly be linked with obesity.
05:02:58 MJ: Becuase you have to use a ton of antibitoics to kill it, which nukes other bacteria you need.
05:03:16 MJ: And thus could potentially cause obesity, but that link is very very tenous and probably limited.
05:03:32 MJ: More likelly it's probably at least somewhat related to HFC
05:03:39 MJ: Oh yeah the small intesint is pretty sick
05:03:56 MJ: small intesitnne also does a lot of digestion
05:04:15 MJ: That's why your pancreas and liver are important
05:04:24 Devastator: now that'll be a place.
05:05:03 MJ: But yeah your lactobacteria or other commensual bacteria are really good at eating things you can't eat
05:05:14 MJ: And also providing nutrients we can't make.
05:05:30 MJ: Althought annoyingly we still can't make all the nutrients we need.
05:06:06 MJ: But like folic acid is a big thing you need, uhh, I think B is important as well? and C I think.
05:06:30 MJ: Damnit, I need to know this better.
05:07:07 syv: Do the neutrophils still hate commensual bacteria?
05:07:25 MJ: I actually think they're pretty chill with them as long as they stay in their spot
05:07:34 MJ: If they get into the wrong spot they'll be murdered instantly
05:08:07 MJ: IgA helps regulate these guys as I recall
05:08:16 MJ: Helps provide like low level immune stimulation
05:08:49 MJ: Oh hell yeah, NK's are so much fun
05:09:01 Devastator: looks like we got a cliffhanger.
05:09:24 MJ: But she should have a gun dmanit
05:09:39 Devastator: Yeah, looks like that's the end of the season.
05:09:46 MJ: I mean H.Pylori does cause cancer so that makes sense
05:09:55 syv: They haven't noticed he's a problem yet I guess
05:10:06 MJ: So have you guys heard the story about how H.Pylori was discovered?
05:10:13 Devastator: end of the season is 'cancer cell 1' and 'cancer cell 2'
05:10:17 Devastator: and no, never heard it.
05:10:22 syv: I have ever heard the word "pylori" before in my life
05:11:18 MJ: So throughout medicine from like 20's-80's it was known that people would get ulcers
05:11:31 MJ: Ever since they could like do surgery and look in peoples stomachs right?
05:11:38 MJ: But it was never really figured out why.
05:12:22 MJ: It was associated with like buisness people in high stress situations and they were given ant acids, like the stereotype of 80's buisness guy chewing ant acids like candy is a trope
05:12:52 MJ: Turns out it wasn't actually associated with stress it's just that they were the peopel who could actually afford to get a work up for stomach pain.
05:13:15 MJ: So anyway it was assumed that it stress related and that it was fixed by ant acids
05:14:00 MJ: This ausstralian doc had a different theory bassed of a couople of cancer paitetns who'd been given massive doses of antibiotics as a fuck it I'm out of ideas plan who got a ton better in their stomach ulcers
05:14:46 MJ: So he goes around and tries to get funding to test h.pylori and it tunrs out it's incredibly hard to cultur
05:14:52 MJ: It's finicky, and ungodly slow
05:15:19 MJ: Like he only got it to grow by going on vacation and forgetting some samples and coming back to them.
05:16:17 MJ: Oh I should mention that before this point it was an artilce of faith in medicine that bacteria absoultly could not grow in the stomach
05:16:30 MJ: This was...obviously wrong as we shall get to.
05:17:03 MJ: But anyway now he has this bacteria that he grew from people with stomach ulcers
05:17:36 MJ: But he can't get any approval to test it on primates and actually demonstrate that these bacteria are causing the ulcers
05:18:12 MJ: So being like the coolest mad scienntest ever goes fuck it, I'm going to drink this slurry of bacteria I've grown in my lab, and wait to devlop ulcers
05:18:27 MJ: And then take a shit ton of antbitoics to cure me
05:19:45 MJ: Which is what he did. My favorite part of this is that he forgot to tell his wife about it until after he drank it and then went hey honey I'm not going to be around for a while I just drank a bunch of bacteria and want to see if I get stomach ulcers.
05:20:16 MJ: Anyway established kochs postulate, also the first person to prove that bacteria could cause cancers
05:20:44 MJ: And also that the ant acids were probably makeing the ulcers worse by making the stomach even less acid and thus more hospitable to bacteria
05:21:01 MJ: Got a nobel prize out if it too
05:23:00 Devastator: Sounds like the only person who deserves both a Nobel and an Ignobel prize for the same research.
05:23:27 MJ: Barry goldwater is think his name
05:28:17 MJ: Tottally fine, just took a shit of anitbiotics to clear the infection and was tottally fun
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21:25:41 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
21:25:41 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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