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05:03:50 Devastator: and happy new year,
ER.
05:04:02 ER: did I get to eat the narrator?
05:05:35 Devastator: in some universe, yes.
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05:14:22 ER: dammit, it's fucking 2022 now
05:14:29 ER: what new nightmare has started
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07:13:15 Devastator: Happy new year, Jaggers.
07:13:47 MidJag: And lets hope that it's better then this one
07:13:57 MidJag: Or the old one I should say.
07:18:53 Devastator: Not drunk enough yet?
07:20:37 MidJag: How's everyones new year?
07:20:57 Devastator: for some reason I'm still playing MoO 3.
07:21:05 Devastator: I patched it eventually, but gah.
07:21:10 Devastator: it's really reminding me of how bad it was.
07:22:09 MidJag: MoO 3, the thing with the weird blob people?
07:22:31 Devastator: It's the space TBS with a million features, none of which improve the game.
07:22:40 Devastator: and just enough that does work to show you how good it could have been.
07:23:23 Devastator: I mean.. it's got AI driven colonies that build all the little stuff that you don't need to care about, which is fine, but it doesn't like have a button which says 'build warships' or 'keep heavy on research'
07:24:00 Devastator: And you can't give general guidelines as to what sort of fleet makeup you want, so you have to keep changing build orders every time some planet builds a ship.
07:24:08 Devastator: and you only get three items in the production queue.
07:24:31 Devastator: And it's like eight clicks to get to each planet's production queue.
07:25:26 Devastator: And if you don't get it, they do stuff like building tons of extra colony ships, endless troop ships, ground pounders..
07:26:01 Devastator: and if you, say, have an empty planet in the star system because it's uninhabitable, the colony will still try to build colony bases and colonize it, when the new colony will never be worth it's upkeep.
07:26:06 Devastator: You have to build ground troops.
07:26:09 syv: Do the normal enemy AI do all the same?
07:26:14 Devastator: in MoO 1, you just sent population to enemy planets.
07:26:30 Devastator: They seem to have some management abilities the player doesn't.
07:26:38 Devastator: or just infinite patience.
07:26:53 Devastator: They're not bright, but they know how to put task forces together.
07:27:02 Devastator: ..which is another dumb innovation.
07:27:40 Devastator: You don't just build ships and throw them at each other, you put them into little formations, which sounds cool but is really just tedious busywork.
07:29:06 Devastator: A lot of times, though, I just want to have like 14 beam cruisers all together, who cares that I don't have a recon vessel, they're just defending a planet.
07:30:41 Devastator: or the amusing situation I ran into just now, where I can't throw out a group of point defense battleships, because I need some actual mission ships to form the core of the formation. Never mind that they're attacking two fleets of enemy carriers.
07:31:58 Devastator: and like 8 PD battleships will own their souls.
07:32:54 Devastator: you don't know what's going on, or how it works, or get effective feedback..
07:33:03 Devastator: you can't even tell how big the enemy ships are.
07:33:25 Devastator: and 'are these frigates or battlecruisers' is KINDA IMPORTANT.
07:34:19 Devastator: at least the point defense bug seems to be gone. I think it was related to out-of-game environmental issues, so it might have vanished for some other reason.
07:35:29 Devastator: The visibility issues aren't, but reading some of the fan mods, someone found it and crushed it.
07:35:39 Devastator: (sometimes enemy ships just vanish for no reason.)
07:35:57 Devastator: (looks like someone put a - instead of a + sign somewhere.)
07:37:17 Devastator: still though, the lack of info..
07:37:43 Devastator: the only way to know how big an enemy ship is, unless you're really good at peering at the tiny little voxel dots that represent ships, is to literally have them orbiting one of your planets.
07:38:10 Devastator: Then you can click on them and see how big they are, what their mission role is, and what turn the AI designed that model.
07:38:38 Devastator: Do note that in order to be orbiting one of your planets they basically have to win a fight.
07:41:20 Devastator: ..also, I'm not 100% the PD bug has been squished, since I'm using a workaround that usually sorts it. Although I'd expect if it was broken I'd have had a fleet eat a missile volley without doing anything yet.
07:42:02 Devastator: ..and on the plus side the workaround is to add the 'multishot' modifier to the point defense guns, which is something you probably want on any decently sized ship anyway.
07:42:19 Devastator: twice the size, but gun fires three times as fast.
07:46:25 Devastator: ugh, no, it's probably still in. I've seen plenty of battles where my beam ships in general simply cannot actually shoot anything, and although it's called the "pd bug", it applies to all actual guns. For periods of time they simply dont' actually shoot.
07:46:49 Devastator: I don't know the details, but basically instead of firing the guns, you just move ships around. Every so often they'll check for somethign to shoot, and it's based per weapon.
07:47:03 Devastator: how often they check is related to how often they shoot, with slower guns shooting less often.
07:47:31 Devastator: the bug is when they simply don't do targetting checks for some reason.
07:47:42 Devastator: space combat game where you don't actually fire weapons.
07:49:15 MidJag: This sounds like a very strange game
07:49:38 Devastator: Well, there's a long story as to why it ended up this way, but really...
07:49:47 Devastator: they made a lot of systems and should have cut several of them, but didn't.
07:49:52 Devastator: they made a lot of dumb decisions.
07:50:14 Devastator: and they had a lot of features which were made by people who had left the project, leaving behind people who don't know what they're working on.
07:50:53 Devastator: End of the day, it's about exactly what you'd expect from a game where the lead developer quit over a year before release, and the game was finished by the art director.
07:51:53 Devastator: Hell, I haven't mentioned it yet, but the map is fully 3-d, but you have a fixed camera. The only effect it has is to make it impossible to estimate how far apart two stars are, and to make some stars absurdly hard to click on because they're "far away."
07:52:19 syv: The #2 most popular video on the TED Youtube channel is a speech from 2015 about how a viral pandemic is the most likely and most lethal disaster likely to happen to people.
07:52:30 syv: The #1 most popular video is a speech about procrastination.
07:53:17 syv: MoO 3 is terrible in every way
07:53:52 ER: I wonder what Aurora is like
07:54:14 Devastator: Just enough stuff works that you can see a bunch of cool ideas and interesting features,
syv.
07:54:22 Devastator: it's just impressive how bad they make everything.
07:54:29 MidJag: Hey I read a book about that a couple of years ago
syv
07:54:51 syv: Aurora is spreadsheets. It's not nearly as broken, but is mostly just going through menus and queueing things endlessly.
07:55:55 ER: do you get to blow things up?
07:56:37 Devastator: although I'd say the number of people who have successfully blown stuff up in Aurora is about 15% of the playerbase.
08:00:00 Devastator: I do like some stuff in Aurora.
08:00:17 Devastator: juggling two dozen balls at once to end up with a working finished product is fun.
08:00:18 MidJag: Arora is essentially single payer EVe online right?~
08:00:31 Devastator: Nah.. Aurora's actually a game.
08:01:08 syv: I dunno, I don't think
Aigre played Aurora.
08:01:30 syv: Aurora is also closer to a sim or tool than a real game, I think
08:03:07 MidJag: I always forget
Aigre played EVER
08:03:16 MidJag: I dunno how I forget that but I do.
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08:06:57 MidJag: I wonder what
Aigre is up to nowadays
08:07:36 MidJag: Perhaps the wild
Aigresaur still stalks the night making easilly exploited systems.
08:07:46 Devastator: with too many numbers.
08:08:32 MidJag: I rember the vampire hunter game where the fucking twilihgt family damn near TPK'd us
08:10:44 MidJag: .....Is
Aigre the one behind FATAL~
08:11:34 MidJag: Man now I feel like the DB cooper is Tommy Wiseau conspiracy all over again :P
08:13:20 syv: Nah, FATAL was more western racism
08:13:29 syv:
Aigre was racist against asians
08:15:09 syv: FATAL is just a remarkably bad system. I'm pretty sure it was actually worse than
Aigre's stuff
08:15:35 syv: Hell, the worst parts of Aigre's games were the fact they were run by
Aigre.
08:16:11 syv: Jeepswarm, suicidal pepsimen, and sharkmail were all terribly OP... but they were fun, too.
08:16:36 Devastator:
Aigre was himself asian.
08:16:50 MidJag: I did enjoy Sean Patrick the infinitium.
08:17:07 syv:
Aigre was Singaporean, specifically. :P
08:17:31 Devastator: I don't remember suicidal pepsimen.
08:17:37 MidJag: Ah right Disney land with a death penalty.
08:17:42 Devastator: and yeah, I remember you telling me that one,
MJ.
08:17:56 Devastator: but yeah,
Aigre's on an ERP forum now.
08:18:28 syv: In one of the games we negotiated a contract with PepsiCo to advertise them during our raid on an alien UFO, covering some of our transport choppers in glowing neon billboards.
08:19:09 syv: We got a bunch of dirt-cheap recruits with the cheapest guns, gave them backpacks with remote control TNT, and dressed them in Pepsi-themed uniforms for more ad dollars.
08:19:15 Devastator: oh yeah, now I remember that.
08:19:29 Devastator: That was spectacular.
08:19:44 syv: Maybe someone stopped me from giving them the bomb backpacks. I don't recall, we didn't get to actually play.
08:19:56 Devastator: I think K-com 2 was kinda inspired by that attempt.
08:20:00 Devastator: among other things.
08:20:06 MidJag: I think Sean Patrick killed a Raptor in that one.
08:20:20 syv: Nah, you killed a raptor in the first one.
08:20:36 syv: The invisible raptor with like +5 to melee in an RTD system...
08:21:34 MidJag: Hey he still killed it~
08:21:45 syv: I think you could consider the XdY<Z Nyafor system to be the great-great-great-great-great-grandchild of that game system
08:22:16 syv: And his Vampire game inspired Sialia to get into GMing
08:22:35 syv:
Aigre had a knack for doing so spectacularly bad that it inspired people.
08:23:59 MidJag: He did, god I rember his char in MP.
08:24:39 syv: A literal actual nazi, with a pet snake whose name was a reference to a dick?
08:25:34 MidJag: Yup, and then the second one when I vetoed the literaly nazi was just Agrisaur
08:25:46 MidJag: I don't remeber if he ever explained what that was.
08:27:14 MidJag: Also tottaly unrelated but apperently Halo has a cat ears helmet
08:27:23 syv: I think a raptor furr--WHAT
08:29:17 syv: There's apparently a multiplayer bot which uses it, named "Meowlnir"
08:30:27 MidJag: Yeah, I don't really know how I feel about this.
08:30:55 syv: Its ingame name is "purrfect audio"
08:32:32 MidJag: It's just not very well done from an astehtics view.
08:34:57 syv: It's done amazingly well, from the view of how well they could've added cat ears to an MJOLNIR helmet
08:35:13 syv: It's awful, from the view of making an MJOLNIR helmet
08:35:25 syv: It's smart, from the point of view of making money
08:35:32 syv: Apparently it costs *ten dollars*
08:35:48 MidJag: Yeah it's kinda crazy expensive and incredibly popular
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15:32:20 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
15:32:20 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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