02:54:40 Devastator: you want me to have a chat with the paladin?
02:55:33 Devastator: and also, I'm not intending to reset this change by just being a bird forever again, I'll jump about. Just looking to get away from the graveyard so I can have bird figure out what he is in relative safety for a while.
02:55:38 Devastator: Also, it's daytime.
02:56:25 ER: right, should still be morning
02:57:16 Devastator: yeah, really want to play with stuff.
02:57:41 Devastator: and probably going to stat up in manipulation.
02:57:44 Devastator: for obvious reasons.
02:57:53 Devastator: (+1 strength seems questionable)
02:57:59 Devastator: but I dunno, maybe it applies when inside a body.
02:59:25 ER: if you can talk to the paladin that'd be great since I dunno what to say lol
02:59:39 Devastator: yeah, I meant the player. Hah.
03:09:41 Devastator: a PM, basically explaining the situation with Revenant, and leaving things open if you want to add another player later, while not promising anything and explaining the situation of a hiatused game resuming.
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04:18:09 syv: There is a purring cat laying on top of me
04:55:13 syv: I watched the first episode of that spider isekai anime.
04:55:53 syv: Spider cute enough, 3d cgi's not as upsetting as it usually is. But they decided to have a terribly generic segment with humans every episode, which is just irritating.
04:56:16 ER: someone was showing screenshots of an anime which is supposed to be roadside picnic-ish maybe kinda
04:56:43 ER: I think the name is otherside picnic?
04:56:56 syv: Made in Abyss is _deeply_ Roadside Picnic-ish
04:57:07 ER: less roadside picnic than made in abyss
04:57:13 ER: but there were girls and guns
05:03:36 syv: Roadside picnic really didn't have much of any guns.
05:03:54 syv: I can recall... two, maybe three scenes with them? And they were useless in both cases.
05:04:23 ER: "why do you have a gun idiot there's nothing to shoot at here" "oh I just wanted to be able to shoot myself" "ah fair"
05:04:54 ER: well the other stalker guy did get shot by the police
05:04:57 syv: You might be quoting the scene, but almost exactly that gets said in the last act.
05:05:33 syv: Burbank was crippled because his leg bones were melted by Witches' Jelly
05:05:45 ER: yeah, and then he got lightly shot
05:05:47 syv: And then the border guards shot at a zombie and ran away
05:07:04 syv: No dubs for urasekai picnic
05:14:09 ER: so, mainly waiting for
sy with revenant
05:15:33 syv: "Japanese writer Iori Miyazawa's 2017 Otherside Picnic is a novel, manga and anime series in which two girls explore the "Otherside", a world of urban legend populated by ghosts of folklore."
05:16:01 syv: Hrm, that sounds disappointing. I'm not so interested in Japanese folklore. Aside from the chance there'd be a foxgirl.
05:17:21 ER: (just cats dressed like ninjas)
05:27:07 Devastator: like there's a difference between cats and ninjas.
05:28:06 Devastator: there's also a lot of werid ghosts.
05:28:29 Devastator: so need
syv in revenant?
05:31:27 syv: I'm busy trying to pirate an RPG I'll never play.
05:46:02 ER: why not pirate something you will play
05:50:59 Devastator: also had a very annoying cogmind fight. Shot a Y-54 guardian about 20 times and never hit core. It ended up killing itself through overheating.
05:51:59 Devastator: which was tough, since it seems just about everything else got shot other than its heatsink.
05:53:25 syv: It's an RPG inspired by STALKER and apparently focusing on small unit tactics.
05:53:56 syv: I figured it might have some neat stuff to take from. Or *maybe* be good enough to actually convert to something playable.
05:53:59 syv: However, so far, it is awful.
05:54:17 Devastator: I think I've heard of that, actually.
05:55:11 syv: A good chunk is Russian materiel wanking, along with very heavy focus on making the minitatures and environment look good.
05:55:45 syv: Strikes me that it'd be more important to have a companion book saying how to set up a cool scene than to actually give mechanics for shooting things.
05:56:01 Devastator: there's a bunch of those, actually.
05:56:16 Devastator: russian-esque small unit tactic games that don't really function.
05:57:34 syv: I'm very happy I didn't pay $20 for this.
05:58:33 Devastator: there's a lot of gun fans and that's a quite popular genre?
05:58:44 Devastator: and making them work is hard?
06:00:24 syv: True, but there's a lot more genres than russian weapons themed, and small unit tactics is a little unusual as well.
06:00:48 Devastator: no, it's like super popular for russian gun fans.
06:01:17 syv: I could see that, but the Russian gun community isn't mine.
06:01:27 syv: Not really very familiar with it.
06:01:56 Devastator: all I really know about their culture is that they really love tactical shooters.
06:02:41 syv: This does have a neat little distintion between soft cover and hard cover. Soft cover makes it harder to shoot, and gives a bonus to willpower, but doesn't actually reduce damage in any way. Hard cover does.
06:02:53 syv: I could see doing something like that.
06:05:05 syv: Mm, nah, I like the systems I've already used for that better.
06:08:53 syv: ...Melee is horribly stilted in favor of the defender, which is the first real mechanical issue I've seen.
06:09:40 ER: I should be able to just poek pompous gun user
06:10:26 syv: It costs an action for the attacker (probably two since you have to move), and both you and the defender calculate and roll attack numbers the same way. The defender is allowed to use their attack successes to parry the attackers, *and* to damage the attacker, but the attacker has no mitigation option.
06:12:13 syv: Gunfire can also suppress a unit if it misses, while missed melee attacks are worthless...
06:13:47 syv: Unsurprisingly, guns deal more damage, and the best melee weapon is also actually a gun. A shotgun.
06:14:38 ER: blue move then melee, using both your actions. only if you have a melee-compatable weapon in your hands, requring that you either have a onehanded gun or take a turn to prepare before attacking. Hit kills the enemy, miss grapples preventing the use of twohanded weapons unless they break it.
06:14:38 syv: ...Which also means if you're using a shotgun, it's easier to parry a guy hitting you with a sword, because your shotgun deals more damage.
06:15:01 syv: See, that's a reasonable system right there.
06:16:53 syv: They also give the normal suggest play area as three feet by three feet, and most guns have a range of 36"+
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06:19:42 syv: Aaaand drugs are ridiculously cheap and very OP, of course.
06:20:37 ER: I kinda feel like drugs being OP is realistic
06:23:12 syv: Drugs cost 1, give +2 actions immediately, downside being you can only use one action next turn. Basic units have one action per turn, highest level units have three. Even a cheap loadout looks to cost well about 10, and it doesn't seem like you're meant to fight seriously for longer than six turns or so at most.
06:23:57 syv: So basic units with drugs can be cheaply made half as good as elite units, and elite units with drugs get to frontload their actions to an utterly ridiculous extent.
06:27:08 syv: There also doesn't seem to be any real system for overwatch or closing off movement, so a faster unit on drugs can more or less just teleport to any position on the map that they want.
06:27:34 syv: Which really hurts the whole "tactical" selling point.
06:28:31 syv: Tactical game where your units can teleport every turn
06:28:52 syv: I wonder if I could make that work.
06:38:27 Devastator: and yes, tactical no anime.
06:38:44 Devastator: I've seen characters like that, but they're usually PCs in systems where the opposition isn't supposed to be significant.
06:39:59 syv: I suspect that may actually be the case here.
06:41:19 syv: The book has a ridiculous emphasis on story, narrative, and atmosphere. They have lots of glamour shots of miniatures in custom environments that look like they too, substantially longer to create than an actual play session would take.
06:41:35 syv: Which clearly also were not pictures of actual gameplay.
06:42:17 syv: Also, for something where they spend so much time going on about narrative, there's precisely zero rules for anything that isn't mechanical combat.
06:43:01 syv: Hm, no, there were some rules for skills in noncombat stuff that was supposed to take multiple actions, like defusing bombs.
06:46:23 Devastator: yeah, I don't know what costs are.
06:51:36 Devastator: at least it isn't a trolley problem.
06:57:49 Devastator: oh, did you catch the advanced cheese?
06:57:52 Devastator: should link it for
MJ.
07:03:53 MidJag: Nah, I need to go to bed unfortunetlly
07:08:27 syv: Driveby
MJ shows up to tell us he needs to sleep :v
07:08:57 Devastator: well he's been here an hour.
07:10:41 Devastator: also, hocking legs for bucks.
07:11:28 Devastator: lots to experiment with in rev anyway.
07:14:08 Devastator: and consume whole..
07:14:43 Devastator: have to figure out what's 'good' and what's 'bad.'
07:18:56 ER: good things are good and bad things are bad
07:20:32 Devastator: Yeah. Have to figure it out.
07:20:39 Devastator: it sounds like they'll be feedback.
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07:40:07 syv: Sleeping sounds like a solid plan.
07:40:58 Devastator: okay, things turned around in cogmind and currently trying to clear a garrison shallower than I ever have before.
07:41:21 Devastator: entered a room and found a pile of gravmag arrays, which are basically giant hover units.
07:41:32 Devastator: when I had one damaged leg.
07:48:06 Devastator: hover units have reasonable weight support and consume much less power than flight units.
07:48:14 Devastator: but they're only about half as fast.
07:49:56 Devastator: entirely new robot class.
07:51:39 Devastator: oh dear lord that's awful.
07:51:51 Devastator: it blows its engine up to strip you of 4 pieces of equipment.
07:59:14 Devastator: yeah, it hit both my engines, insta-destroying them, and rendering all my energy weapons useless.
07:59:30 Devastator: I did get out of the level, but it wasn't clean. 110 HP left and butt-naked.
08:00:00 syv: It blew its engine up... to blow up YOUR engine?
08:00:32 syv: Did you at least get the clear bonus for the garrison?
08:00:35 Devastator: yeah. I hit and scragged the other one, but one got through.
08:00:44 Devastator: not the full bonus, but good enough!
08:01:24 Devastator: okay, next level wants me to have a chance. First thing I find, a cooled VTOL module, which lets me move at 2.85 speed.
08:01:30 Devastator: and an improved gauss cannon.
08:01:50 Devastator: which, being an ammo weapon, doesn't use much energy.
08:04:35 Devastator: improved core analyzer, which lets you sometimes core robots you don't core, and an improved weapon cycler, which doesn't consume ALL THE ENERGY.
08:05:23 Devastator: I still need some kind of engine.
08:05:27 Devastator: show me a serf-bot.
08:06:28 Devastator: ..or the next room could just have eight of them sitting on the ground.
08:06:33 Devastator: and another propulsion module.
08:14:07 Devastator: that's like super-energy efficient.
08:16:13 Devastator: and a stack of light fission cores, which are just about the perfect engines for a flying build at this difficulty.
08:16:30 Devastator: +13 power, not too much heat, decent storage..
08:18:48 Devastator: okay, now a transport full of cooled nuclear pulse thrusters, which are about the best propulsion units for a flyer at this level..
08:20:43 Devastator: ..and there's an exit, but no.
08:20:52 Devastator: I'll die if I go to a branch.
08:20:57 Devastator: a branch I've never seen before.
08:22:45 Devastator: soon as I see an enemy, dead.
08:25:55 Devastator: stairs can go up to the next level.
08:26:10 Devastator: or they can go to a 'branch', which is a level that goes to a side passage.
08:31:01 Devastator: going up a level heals your core.
08:31:10 Devastator: branch levels often have bonus loot or interesting situations, but don't heal you.
08:31:53 syv: So it's an investment if you did well on a level and have high core.
08:32:14 Devastator: but not that big a degree.
08:36:06 Devastator: You also don't innately know where stairs go, without equipment or a successful terminal hack.
08:36:57 Devastator: "It's a pretty flexable plan when Time Traveling Invisible Spaceship is one of the contigencies you have planned for."
08:42:19 Devastator: so you find stairs, you go through them, and don't level up. Whoops!
08:53:16 Devastator: well, it's one terminal hack for the whole level to tell you which stairs go up.
08:53:28 Devastator: ..or which branch paths the branch stairs go to.
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09:07:49 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
09:07:49 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
09:11:24 Devastator: they eliminated mid-picks on dust 2.
09:12:09 syv: I don't understand either term.
09:13:10 Devastator: basically they took the most popular counter-strike map, which is damn near 50-50 for balance. Ie, either side wins half the time.
09:13:33 Devastator: and made an extremely dramatic change to it that blocks one of the major possible advantages for the attacking side.
09:14:34 Devastator: essentially, you have a tiny time window to see the deployment of the defending team across the middle of the map, through a narrow slot between doors. Certain very fast players can get kills through that, under the right circumstances, if the opponents don't smoke it off.
09:14:52 Devastator: It is an attacking side advantage, but since the map is basically completely 50-50, it's fine.
09:15:41 syv: "Certain very fast players"
09:16:07 syv: Is that a common skill at the highest level? And is it 50:50 at the highest level?
09:16:33 Devastator: It's not super rare.
09:16:45 Devastator: and when you have someone who can do it, it adds up to 2-3 kills over 15 rounds.
09:17:04 Devastator: ..unless they smoke.
09:17:23 Devastator: so it's basically a slight money tax to the opposing team applied if you have one of those very skilled players.
09:17:46 Devastator: The loss of the deployment info is the biggest difference, and that's gonna be huge.
09:26:15 syv: Doesn't sound *that* significant, though of course I don't know CS.
09:26:48 syv: It sounds like they might dislike that element of gameplay and don't want it to be core to the map.
09:27:22 Devastator: It's quite significant, and will probably swing the map to being 55-60% CT.
09:27:34 Devastator: and of course it's because they hate midpicks.
09:28:10 Devastator: They've been around decades and new players hate them, and they're hell against cheaters.
09:28:31 Devastator: They're quite significant balance-wise, but that doesn't matter.
09:37:08 Devastator: also, nto sure what the plan is in extinction.
09:37:56 syv: Want me to just give a concrete plan?
09:40:10 Devastator: I'd like to do it tomorrow, but there's no immediate hurry.
09:40:24 Devastator: If there isn't one I'll make proposals and have a vote.
09:50:25 Devastator: Zultan got back to me.
09:50:34 Devastator: says he was really impressed by the trence-as-dragon twist.
10:01:00 Devastator: in general it's just way more epic than he was expecting.
10:09:37 syv: Understandable. It's an epic story... and most SGs are really pretty plain.
10:10:16 Devastator: stuff isn't big, or if it is big, it's an illusion?
10:28:38 Devastator: also, Zultan has absolutely no idea what's going to happen and it'll be fun to watch.
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