01:47:46 Devastator: I had someone do that to me earlier.
01:50:23 Devastator: looks like you're right. Ugh.
01:51:37 Devastator: And nope, doesn't looke like a ram is possible.
01:53:27 Devastator: unless you hit something, with your -1 to hazard checks.
01:53:29 Devastator: ..which could happen, yeah.
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04:34:17 syv: "The ice shards in the wall add character."
04:34:23 syv: I laughed out loud at that one
04:36:34 syv: Can Sessha make an attack and still leave in the same turn, due to haste?
04:36:50 syv: Alternatively, can Sessha stay behind, fight for a round or two, then catch up with the boys?
04:40:14 Devastator: Those sound pretty reasonable.
04:40:24 Devastator: it'll be like 1/12 to get lost and be a turn behind.
04:40:47 Devastator: also, yeah, meditation seems to work ok with dragonbreath.
04:41:32 Devastator: do note that with Willis's better spellpower, Trence operating at one rank higher is the same as Willis at one rank below that.
04:42:52 Devastator: the word for Arctic Breath should be the same as the one for Tsunami.
04:46:41 Devastator: "This guy isn't badass enough to take it down on his own."
04:46:45 Devastator: Proooobably is, actually.
04:47:00 Devastator: well, it'd be iffy.
04:47:11 syv: He only did 35 damage with an armor ignoring attack
04:47:16 Devastator: his super-hit is exhausting, not just tiring, so it'll take him a while to get through the door.
04:47:31 Devastator: 35 damage is a pretty good hit!
04:47:40 Devastator: I mean, seriously, he did 3d12+9
04:48:04 syv: Man he can't even oneshot Willis with an armor ignoring attack
04:48:05 Devastator: but nah, he'd have to get lucky, but it's possible.
04:48:20 Devastator: Willis may have relatively low HP, but he's level 11.
04:48:26 Devastator: this guy's about 8.
04:48:38 syv: Well then, that makes me want to have Sessha stay back for a turn to finish him.
04:49:09 Devastator: it's not a guarantee, but it's certainly a possibility.
04:49:18 Devastator: there's also the other chance.
04:49:27 Devastator: 'does this guy carry smelling salts?'
04:49:47 Devastator: with the ridiculous amount of poison being thrown around..
04:49:51 Devastator: that's not the risk it normally is.
04:50:24 Devastator: plus I think Trence deaded two guys.
04:50:51 syv: I _did_ consider smelling salts
04:52:16 Devastator: well, it'd be particularly good if you want a prisoner.
04:52:24 Devastator: but I'm kinda assuming you won't do that until the last group.
04:52:39 Devastator: nah, in general, these guys will get cleaned up by the roaming guards.
04:53:27 syv: That seems dumb, we could just grab any KO'd Concordat for a much better prisoner... and their value would prolly not be high. I'd expect them to be grabbed by other soldiers, anyway. We're not the only people running security.
04:54:46 syv: I can't give up on the "Curses!" line thougj
04:55:34 syv: How long does four non-combat rounds last?
04:56:08 syv: Not sure if Trence should revert, then go water dragon at the start of next fight, or just stay dragon for four turns of running...
04:56:39 syv: Four turns is a long time, and opening with an arctic breath hitall would be a big deal
04:56:50 syv: >(
Devastator) the word for Arctic Breath should be the same as the one for Tsunami.
04:57:01 syv: Is this including the damage buff from chaining water and ice?
04:58:57 Devastator: yes, that includes the damage buff.
04:59:03 Devastator: one-element ones are moderate.
04:59:14 Devastator: moderate -> heavy -> massive -> extreme.
04:59:46 syv: So we stack three dragon elements (or maybe blade dragon plus arctic), and do meditation
05:00:09 syv: Get some kind of accessory to ignore tiring limits
05:00:13 Devastator: don't forget how rare three-element dragons, particularly ones with cooperative elements were in universe.
05:00:28 Devastator: it's absurdly cheap.
05:00:37 syv: Do two extreme-damage hitalls in one turn
05:00:55 syv: And damn it Spar _still_ beats that
05:01:14 Devastator: You can get death ward, you know.
05:01:59 Devastator: I will say, two extreme-damage hitalls in one turn would be very nice at knocking down the slabs of HP that are the four swords.
05:02:20 Devastator: I'll do the math on that later, but it's a ton of damage.
05:02:27 Devastator: they do have resistances, but..
05:02:31 syv: Depending on how we can outfit Sessha, and what Alice's skillset ends up as, this might actually be a reasonable strategy with added death wards.
05:02:49 Devastator: smash as hard as you can is a viable strategy.
05:02:59 syv: Which isn't _that_ much, but it's the first idea I've had that seems vaugely viable.
05:03:09 Devastator: they're that badass? ;-p
05:03:28 Devastator: I will give you one hint.
05:03:38 Devastator: if you want specific information on that sword, you want to go to the city where it was made.
05:03:49 syv: B) Instakill plus guaranteed initiative is _broken_
05:04:18 syv: Like, Carina, Dorren, Arngrim, all of them were very solid bossfights on their own.
05:04:18 Devastator: Yes, that's what she was thinking, yes.
05:04:30 syv: WITH them being easier due to the retreat pops
05:05:30 syv: And it very much seems like you're building them like powergamers (which is reason able should happen more often with NPCs in LitRPGs)
05:06:44 Devastator: they could be worse.
05:06:59 Devastator: Dorren has a huge variety of spells.
05:07:05 Devastator: but he doesn't have max damage output with them.
05:07:23 Devastator: He will have some nasty stuff when you hit him next, tailored to the expected situation..
05:07:27 Devastator: but not tailored to you specifically.
05:07:43 syv: Is that suboptimal for a powergamer in his situation, thougu?
05:08:04 Devastator: There's a bunch of crazy moves I could have him do to you that would be too much.
05:08:12 Devastator: he sits near entrance.
05:08:21 Devastator: summons another insect queen.
05:08:32 Devastator: you come out, there's like 800 monsters there.
05:08:50 Devastator: but yeah, stuff like that.
05:09:00 syv: Man if that actually worked that well it'd be so worth it
05:09:16 Devastator: He'd probably summon things other than insects..
05:09:24 Devastator: I might have stuff like that if you delay too long in stage III.
05:09:38 Devastator: there's no running plot, but there's the ocasional really, really serious one-shot attempt.
05:09:44 syv: If he could track us that well I feel we'd have a lot harder of a time for other reasons.
05:09:54 Devastator: he probably could figure it out, given enough time.
05:10:08 Devastator: Uncle will mention that sometime during stage III.
05:10:39 Devastator: Carina would have a much better preset spell loadout, but she's relatively simple.
05:10:43 Devastator: she just hits stuff really hard.
05:10:46 syv: Also, "summon insect queen" isn't really optimal.
05:11:02 Devastator: no, no, but he needs to do insect queen to make minions that stay there.
05:11:16 Devastator: and you can't summon living people like that. You can do recall, but you can't teleport.
05:11:34 syv: If he can get there at all, I'd expect him to be able to bring Spar.
05:11:45 Devastator: Yeah, that's the other tricky bit.
05:11:48 Devastator: no flying transportation.
05:12:22 syv: If we get flying dragon, will we have unlocked the Extinction version of the ubiquitous JRPG airship?
05:12:37 syv: I guess Trence's mana costs will make that impractical.
05:12:52 Devastator: You could totally use it for transportation, though.
05:13:04 Devastator: just not around the world.
05:13:11 Devastator: unless you have a bunch of mana potions.
05:13:38 syv: Yeah, it'd still be quite good. Set camp, regen mana, fly a huge distance and deplete mana, walk some for bonus distance, set camp.
05:13:57 syv: It'd mean no dragon for random battles, but should still be a LOT faster.
05:14:00 Devastator: Trence doesn't regen in camps.
05:14:13 Devastator: gotta find village or inn.
05:14:21 Devastator: unless in desert or something.
05:15:15 syv: ...Still might be practical, though. His mana pool is already decent, and will get bigger. With a plus mana cap item, and haste, that should be some _serious_ flying range, and I'd expect villages to usually be within range.
05:15:28 Devastator: Hmm, you want the estimate?
05:15:31 Devastator: can work it out now.
05:15:35 Devastator: I'm not sure what it'll be.
05:15:52 Devastator: flight speed is probably around 90-100 km/hr
05:15:56 syv: That would be a very good reason for the Concordat being essentially incapable of catching up to Trence during Act III
05:16:25 Devastator: out of combat, mana ticks are.. lets say, two minutes.
05:16:33 Devastator: Flight + nothing is 10 mana + 2/tick.
05:16:40 Devastator: what's his mana pool?
05:17:23 Devastator: add 9 to that, for level 12, which should come for this seige.
05:17:26 Devastator: that'll probably be it.
05:17:36 syv: That's more than I expected.
05:17:46 Devastator: yeah, you get double HP/MP gains for multiples of 4.
05:17:57 Devastator: Trence alternates between 4 and 5.
05:18:09 Devastator: I know willis is 2/3
05:18:17 Devastator: trence could be 3/4, now that I think about it.
05:18:38 Devastator: yeah, I think he must be 3/4.
05:19:17 Devastator: 42 minutes at.. lets round it off to 100km/hr
05:19:58 syv: Let me just convert that to freedom units >.>
05:20:47 syv: ...This isn't actually helpful because I don't know what the distance between towns is.
05:21:45 syv: That sounds like about two days of foot travel?
05:22:00 Devastator: the party could probably do a bit better than that, but it's a good estimate.
05:22:04 syv: Maybe more like 1.5 since these characters are quite physically adept.
05:22:23 syv: Would Haste help, or is that estimate with haste?
05:22:31 Devastator: Haste doesn't make you move faster.
05:22:35 Devastator: it makes you take two actions in combat.
05:23:33 Devastator: there's a better choice.
05:23:37 Devastator: there are MP cost reduction items.
05:23:51 syv: Yeah those would be very awesome
05:23:52 Devastator: which are actually not much for Trence.
05:24:05 Devastator: the equivalent of a gold hairpin is 3/4 mana cost, rounded up.
05:24:18 Devastator: yeah, much better for Willis... maybe.
05:25:50 Devastator: still has the superpower of Low MP Cap!
05:25:51 syv: Would that apply to dragon breath?
05:26:04 Devastator: but it seems likely enough.
05:26:30 syv: 15 mana to transform, and 10 to breath.
05:26:50 syv: 12 and 8, so nicely twenty.
05:27:05 syv: ...Maintenance cost too, which is still 3.
05:27:16 Devastator: tbh, you might want two elements + magic dragon.
05:27:41 syv: Would that, uh, go up to extreme damage by default?
05:27:50 Devastator: Magic dragon is a bit different.
05:27:52 Devastator: find it and find out.
05:28:06 Devastator: but it'd be more 'spells' not 'breaths'
05:28:23 Devastator: you'd need at least one element since Trence doesn't know any hitting spells.
05:28:35 syv: Might have something redundant with meditation, too.
05:28:49 Devastator: could have something that stacks.
05:28:53 Devastator: could have meditation.
05:28:53 syv: Really the optimal four swords strat is prolly still flying, maybe plus elements.
05:29:23 syv: We have two ranged attackers, and IIRC the four swords have... Dorren.
05:29:54 syv: Though if Dorren's hunting us and knows we can fly, I imagine he'd prepare "Gravity" or something.
05:29:54 Devastator: well, assuming Carina doens't have a bow.
05:30:15 Devastator: God, that'd be a dorren spell.
05:30:16 syv: I wouldn't be surprised, and Arngrim does still have his debuffs.
05:30:20 Devastator: nobody else on the planet would use it.
05:30:45 Devastator: any ideas as to why yet?
05:31:24 syv: The Imperial Anti-levitation pact, instituted after Saint Jiub's massacre of cliff racers?
05:32:48 Devastator: why the whole army thing?
05:32:56 Devastator: why locking trence isn't an option?
05:33:37 syv: I was assuming flight was just not a magic spell possible in this setting.
05:35:58 Devastator: it's basically to evade the inevitable airship.
05:36:04 Devastator: backtracking is possible, and I can timeskip over it.
05:36:11 Devastator: but not that many games don't have them.
05:36:18 Devastator: well, other than Lufia II and Terranigma.
05:38:26 Devastator: cogmind storage room full of advanced targetting computers and forcefields.
05:40:43 syv: Didn't Terranigma have a flying ship?
05:40:51 syv: I thought it got modified in the last act
05:48:16 Devastator: Terranigma had someone invent aircraft.
05:48:20 Devastator: and it had bird-related fast travel.
05:48:35 Devastator: but they were planes! they went between runways, not land anywhere stuff.
05:49:01 Devastator: Lufia II did have a flying ship.. but it was for the final attack thingy.
06:03:04 Devastator: aaanyway, you should be ok for the next fight.
06:03:19 Devastator: next fight: A cannon!
06:03:55 syv: Maybe we *should* use a mana potion.
06:04:43 Devastator: eh, too late now! But I think someone else might suggest that.
06:05:19 Devastator: monk also had an AP move, but it was useable every turn, not every three turns.
06:06:31 Devastator: also, willis would like someone to remove that poison, please.
06:13:54 syv: We have antidote and cheap heals
06:14:08 Devastator: nah, don't worry about it.
06:14:20 syv: Last time we exited the fight we had time to do stuff after.
06:14:29 Devastator: yeah, it'll be a turn or two.
06:14:37 Devastator: but I didn't auto the fight because of the possibility of extra damage.
06:15:45 Devastator: oh.. and I think the only things that have hit harder than 35 damage to one target are Carina of the Starry Skies and the giant lizard monster.
06:19:52 Devastator: Arngrim does have some new tricks to show you.
06:22:18 syv: I guess we're tougher than we've felt.
06:23:27 Devastator: Yeah, you guys are fairly high level.
06:23:35 Devastator: and sessha is a massive HP soak.
06:23:57 Devastator: partly because I wanted you to have someone who could take a bomb.
06:24:07 Devastator: but she always was supposed to be one.
06:24:11 Devastator: just due to escort duties.
06:28:35 syv: She got the massive HP as god boons, right?
06:28:54 syv: BTW, that makes a lot of sense for a crutch char who's supposed to be super experienced.
06:29:23 Devastator: also it's to make it extremely difficult to just drop her when defending.
06:29:30 syv: High HP is really powerful, but in an odd way, since you're basically the same power whether you have 1% or 100% HP.
06:30:32 Devastator: Yeah. Really, Sessha is just a good answer to any half-assed attempt to assassinate Trence.
06:42:31 syv: You know, in-universe, it's _really_ convenient that that fabled dragonkid who the most powerful people in the world want to assassinate... happens to have one of the world's foremost experts on assassination as his aunt.
06:43:32 Devastator: In truth, uncle would know some really good adventurer.
06:48:06 syv: Just having a good relationship with someone is much less helpful than them literally being family.
06:48:44 Devastator: I mean, there's Sessha's introduction post.
06:48:48 syv: "My friend is paying me good money to protect his kid... but I'm going up against the world's most powerful, wealthy, and influential force, who might have a good reason... is this worth it?"
06:49:39 Devastator: actually, the introduction of Sessha as someone unrelated would have been a bit different.
06:49:48 Devastator: quite a bit different.
06:49:53 Devastator: would have changed the opening a bit.
06:50:45 syv: ...Yeah, you're right, the family angle was accidental.
06:51:58 Devastator: yeah, I don't have it down 100%, and it would have been after entering the first major city..
06:52:12 Devastator: but that would have been how things went down.
06:52:29 Devastator: essentially, Willis and Trence would have hidden out inside the temple.
06:52:38 Devastator: and the whole secret thing woudl have gotten the cultist on their side.
06:54:14 syv: "This is the world's greatest secret!"
07:24:57 Devastator: thanks for playing, btw.
07:25:06 Devastator: nice knowing someone wants it updated.
07:30:59 Devastator: you're doing well, but there's a long way to go until the finish.
07:37:48 syv: I like Extinction quite a lot.
07:38:01 syv: I won't be happy when it ends >.>
07:45:30 Devastator: and I'll likely start something new.
07:45:50 Devastator: been thumbing around more ideas about a strategic combat game.
08:10:12 Devastator: I like that description of Trence as the 'fabled dragonkid'
08:10:16 Devastator: although it isn't quite right.
08:10:20 Devastator: there aren't even fables of dragons.
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09:05:55 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
09:05:55 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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