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03:42:42 Devastator: could talk about how to run that deployment arms race thing.
03:44:09 syv: Practicing for tourney ATM, but I'd be interested in reading.
03:47:19 Devastator: The biggest issue is that you need a combat resolution method that provides feedback, and it'd be the core of the game.
03:47:34 Devastator: in general, I'd probably steal something from a normal wargame, but simplify it a bit.
03:48:01 syv: Combat resolution method could bog things down if you're trying to do logistics.
03:48:07 syv: Would have to be very simple, yeah.
03:48:08 Devastator: Since we're going to be dealing with deployment and resource management, I think essentially adding up all the troops into a big pile o' numbers would work best. Could have like three or four numbers.
03:48:11 Devastator: There's a way to do it.
03:48:37 Devastator: was going to use logistic issues simply be distance and infrastructure base. Like every 'zone' away from the capital reduces combat power by a percentage.
03:48:53 Devastator: fighting hurts it and you can spend resources to improve it.
03:50:00 syv: What kinda resources are there?
03:50:20 syv: Soldiers need food and munitions.
03:50:28 syv: Vehicles need fuel and parts too.
03:50:53 Devastator: Arguable, but I think cutting out food might be for the best.
03:51:03 Devastator: it'd also depend on the setting and time period.
03:51:48 syv: I do kinda want there to be local depletion of things like fuel, so one can emulate a blitzkrieg relying on looting enemy fuel dumps, say.
03:51:56 syv: Though that's edging into strategy.
03:52:34 Devastator: That might require tracking resources on a per-zone level.
03:52:45 Devastator: which sounds like a lot of bookeeping.
03:55:01 Devastator: also, a blitz campaign wouldn't fit well with the development process of an arms race.
03:57:20 Devastator: but yeah, resources based on time period and setting, really.
03:57:33 Devastator: Could be anything. Could be custom, even.
03:58:33 syv: What kind of numbers would you go with for the armies?
03:59:48 Devastator: since it's about resource management, I'd expect units in the hundreds or thousands.
03:59:58 Devastator: although smaller more powerful units might come along too.
04:00:50 syv: Like, what kinda mechanisms would determine battles? How would the strength of an army be determined?
04:02:09 Devastator: Well, I was thinking that each army would take three or four shots at the other, per turn, dealing casulties.
04:02:26 Devastator: there'd be a stat for firepower and a stat for shock, ie, taking terrain.
04:02:50 Devastator: there'd probably be a defensive stat for firepower too.
04:04:20 syv: Mm. Different direction than I was thinking.
04:04:32 Devastator: What were you thinking?
04:11:38 syv: Just numbers for infantry/armor/artillery/aircraft.
04:12:08 Devastator: If it's an arms race, things might not stay balanced or divided in such ways.
04:12:34 Devastator: there might very well be interdependancies, but I think a more general system is necessary.
04:12:34 syv: Mostly static in how they work and how battles are resolved, with improvements just giving them some capacity adjustment against other types, with all units of a type for a faction being 100% identical.
04:12:56 Devastator: Yeah, that sounds like a tactical or deployment game.
04:13:00 syv: Well, you were talking about making an arms race that's different from usual. :v
04:14:44 Devastator: Logistics would be there to provide a countervailing force against the usual onrushing tide once one side gets a notable advantage in arms race.
04:15:06 Devastator: it'd make it tougher to push further towards the enemy.
04:15:29 syv: So you want an Arms Race game _with_ logistics, not _about_ logistics.
04:15:55 syv: Yeah, not what I thought, then.
04:16:00 Devastator: it'd be about unit design, resource management, and maybe with some elements of combined arms.
04:20:50 syv: I was thinking of the latter two, with minimal of the first.
04:22:57 Devastator: nah, people like arguing about the first too much to take that away from them. ;-p
04:23:03 Devastator: I was thinking of having it involve no design rolls.
04:54:01 Devastator: because they cause too much anger.
05:33:45 syv: Yeah, I've never been a fan of how Arms' Race's design system works.
05:33:52 syv: Though I've never *really* played one.
05:34:10 syv: Kaiju Com worked really well.
05:43:51 Devastator: well, in that case it was by being dumb.
05:44:00 Devastator: I figure any new system would bear some similarities to it.
05:47:00 Devastator: It'd also be less hidden.
05:47:07 Devastator: teams would be able to see the stats of their units.
05:50:24 Devastator: the mad scientists did have rolls.
06:18:53 Devastator: Essentially arms race is where two teams guess as to how the game works, which is a complete black box.
06:19:01 Devastator: while trying to out-lawyer the other team.
06:20:41 Devastator: it's awful, mechanically speaking.
07:36:56 syv: Yeah, that's about what I've seen.
07:37:03 syv: And then with random dice rolls thrown in.
07:37:19 syv: While not knowing what the enemy is doing.
07:37:29 syv: Which is just a recipe for disaster in every way.
07:38:21 syv: Is your thing a bad idea because you don't understand what's good? Maybe! If it's good, do you get dice rolls which *allow* it to be good? Maybe not! Do you see your enemy getting fucked over by chance in the same way? Nope!
07:51:21 Devastator: I think having things more face-up then was good.
08:02:34 Devastator: odd, though, since in k-com I felt hiding stats would work better.
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10:43:48 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
10:43:48 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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20:21:04 ER: what if we tried *more power*?
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