01:03:57 Piecewise: Ah, time to dispassionately watch the votes come in
01:04:30 Piecewise: Biden has 30 more electoral votes than trump despite having less popular votes
01:04:30 ER: don't distract me, I'm watching the b12 ameripol discord
01:05:28 ER: I think they subsist on a novel kind of pleasure mostly consisting of screaming into the void
01:05:39 Piecewise: Good for them I guess
01:10:33 Piecewise: I still wonder how they're even gonna make a decision
01:10:45 Piecewise: I mean people are still mailing in votes even today
01:20:39 Piecewise: Will be interesting to see if they even attempt to call it tonight
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02:56:29 MidJag: Got my sticker and everything.
03:04:14 Piecewise: I voted by mail weeks ago
03:04:25 Piecewise: I can be confident its laying in a ditch somewhere
03:04:32 Piecewise: like the founding fathers always wanted
03:04:54 MidJag: Well of course, you mail in a vote the courier gets shot in the head. Just like Fallout.
03:05:07 Piecewise: Happens a lot around here
03:05:16 Piecewise: we've had a spate of violence on the strip
03:05:50 MidJag: I'm both suprised and not suprised.
03:06:02 MidJag: I never really know what to make of vegas.
03:07:53 MidJag: Actually, what is vegas like to live in dubs?
03:09:24 Piecewise: I mean everyone knows the strip
03:09:37 Piecewise: but its actually not hugely different from a lot of other places
03:09:42 Piecewise: The biggest differences are
03:10:06 Piecewise: 1. Huge amounts of people work on the strip. Our largest job provider in the state is MGM Grand
03:10:34 Piecewise: 2. There's gambling everywhere. There are slot machines in grocery stores and gas stations. Unironically
03:11:13 MidJag: Huh. Alabama once had a thing about electronic bingo being gambling. Sounds very different.
03:11:37 Piecewise: Its honestly a lot like Arizona
03:11:43 Piecewise: once you get away from the strip
03:12:04 Piecewise: Or really any South west american city
03:12:31 MidJag: I've never actually been out west. I was going to go on a road trip there 2020 summer but you konw, COVID kept that from really coacelising.
03:12:46 Piecewise: Its an interesting place
03:13:01 Piecewise: Quite nice if you like colored rocks~
03:13:03 Piecewise: Apparently trump won florida on the cuban population which is causing consternation among "Anti-racists"
03:13:22 Piecewise: however they define THAT group
03:15:02 MidJag: And I guess that's not suprising? I'd probably be pretty right wing if my family had fled a communist dictator like 2 generations ago.
03:21:33 Piecewise: this is the one I'm keeping an eye on
03:21:51 Piecewise: but obviously everywhere is counting right now and the exact numbers always vary
03:24:24 Piecewise: And of course you can already count that 55 California votes for biden
03:24:54 Piecewise: Those were never going anywhere
03:26:16 MidJag: And I expect you can count Alabama for trump.
03:26:57 MidJag: If it doesn't I will actually die of suprise.
03:29:54 Piecewise: on yahoo trump is winning the popular vote by 2 million but losing by 30 electoral votes
03:30:30 Piecewise: and winning by...22 electoral votes on 270 to win
03:30:38 Piecewise: thats a pretty big divergence
03:31:57 MidJag: Hmm, I think the only rational response to all this is getting so drunk I can't read any of the numbers. I'll be right back.
03:34:59 Piecewise: I mostly just glance at it here and there with the full knowledge we won't really know shit for likely days
03:37:19 Piecewise: Things seem to be following the forecasts for now
03:39:29 Piecewise: "The global population is both underfed and overweight"
03:41:34 Piecewise: Everything seems to be identical to 2016 last year
03:41:43 Piecewise: last election I mean
03:41:59 Devastator: you mean the one where trump won exactly the number of votes he needed across three states to take it?
03:42:18 Devastator: he'll need more than three this time.
03:42:49 Piecewise: I mean we're in the middle of middle america right now
03:43:06 Devastator: I'll check tomorrow night.
03:43:09 Piecewise: that west coast is gonna hit hard
03:43:26 Piecewise: They're predicting Nevada to go blue
03:43:28 Devastator: I just really hope that fucking the mail didn't throw the election.
03:43:43 Devastator: that would be the worst of all precedents.
03:44:10 Devastator: I do know about half a dozen PA counties plan on counting zero mail votes today.
03:44:38 Piecewise: Well, if trump loses he's been arguing for it it being rigged via the mail since the beginning. But if he wins I feel like we'll see democrats say things were rigged. Not sure about the truth of anything but everyone seems ready to cry foul
03:44:39 Devastator: so gonna try and ignore it for now.
03:44:53 Devastator: I dunno, only one side can be right there.
03:44:58 Devastator: and it wont' be the one calling for votes to be counted.
03:45:16 Devastator: it'll be the one calling for them to be tossed out that'll be the one doing fraud.
03:45:19 Piecewise: I have no idea honestly
03:45:26 Devastator: anyway, probably gotta get off here tonight.
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03:46:02 MidJag: Yeah. I dunno. It'll be intresting
03:46:23 Piecewise: I feel like regardless of what I think, it will go the other way
03:47:22 MidJag: I have a humungeous beer and it will be consumed quicklly. That's about all I know for certain tonight.
03:50:59 MidJag: Man, this has been such an odd year.
03:52:15 MidJag: welp outside of watching the election how've you been dubs?
03:52:52 Piecewise: alright I suppose. Finished up two more classes, getting the ankle taken care of on thursday, wife bought a new car
03:53:14 Piecewise: looking for an apartment for a year in reno so I can do my clinic work
03:53:29 MidJag: Oh cool, what's your wife do? I rember you mentioned she did something hospital related.
03:54:15 MidJag: Oh neat, PET scans are just awesome.
03:54:27 Piecewise: They're useful for my work, thats for sure
03:54:46 Piecewise: she gives them the little bit of dose, I give em the big bit
03:55:01 Piecewise: the substantially bigger bit
03:55:25 MidJag: Yes, I suppose having a scan that highlights places with inflammation like cancer would be useful to a man controlling a proton cannon.
03:55:59 Piecewise: Proton cannons are more expensive!
03:56:10 Piecewise: getting smaller thouhg
03:56:19 Piecewise: used to be like...as big as a 3 story building
03:57:41 Piecewise: Cause you need a cyclotron and giant moving gantries and such
03:57:53 Piecewise: where as a photon beam is just an oversized xray tube
03:58:26 MidJag: Ah. Are proton cannons used for radiation therapy? I really don't know much about it.
03:58:42 Piecewise: Generally for specialized things
03:58:52 Piecewise: Children, brain cancer, etc
03:59:05 MidJag: Ah. What's the advantage?
03:59:17 Piecewise: Comes down to the "Bragg peak"
04:00:07 Piecewise: Xrays give dose in a relatively steady decreasing energy from entry to exit
04:00:28 Piecewise: protons give it in a big bunch right at the end of their path and then die out
04:00:38 Piecewise: and you can vary where that is by energy
04:01:04 Piecewise: has to do with the difference between charged particle interactions and neutral xray interactions
04:01:49 MidJag: Intresting. So that essentially lets you skip past the tissue between you and the tumour with relativelly less damage?
04:02:43 Piecewise: It lets you greatly reduce dose to the tissue on the "Front" side and reduce it to basically none on the other
04:04:11 Piecewise: But the expense and tech mean its only sometimes used. And in many cases its true it doesn't really have a huge difference. Prostate cancer doses don't need high precision like brain cancer
04:04:37 Piecewise: but we'll likely see more and more proton used as it gets cheaper and more reasonably sized
04:04:53 MidJag: Right. What's the smallest one now adays?
04:05:26 Piecewise: Ahhh last trade show I was at they were talking about it taking up like a large room instead of a multistory building
04:05:39 Piecewise: not sure of thats just the cyclotron and track or they include the gantry in that
04:06:02 Piecewise: since the gantry itself is, traditionally, like a cage rotating around the entire room
04:06:37 Piecewise: There are a lot of weird modalities for radiation therapy
04:06:44 Piecewise: cyber knife, gamma knife, tomo
04:07:20 MidJag: I can guess gama knife, but cyber knife?
04:08:41 Piecewise: So gamma knife is when they literally bolt 200 some odd cobalt sources to your head and use them to very precisely irradiate your brain
04:09:45 Piecewise: Cyber knife is basically a bit ol' robot arm instead of a gantry
04:09:50 Piecewise: more freedom of movement
04:10:26 MidJag: I see, so you can rotate the paitent better for more precisie irradiating?
04:10:38 Piecewise: Can even do things like track movement from breathing, heart beat, gut churning, etc
04:10:56 Piecewise: Well, more like rotate and move the source compared to the patient
04:11:23 Piecewise: I'm sure Cyberknife must be lower energy though...
04:11:30 Piecewise: can't get too much out of that size I'd think
04:12:02 MidJag: More potent source maybe?
04:12:48 Piecewise: Nah, we use linear accelerators for almost everything now. Physical sources are resigned to specialty things and Brachytherapy
04:13:04 Piecewise: looks like its a 6 million electron volt beam
04:13:42 Piecewise: normal linacs will generally go anywhere from 10 to 18 or 20
04:14:01 Piecewise: Not that you really need that high most of the time
04:14:57 Devastator has joined #einsteinianroulette
04:15:13 Devastator: was going to ask to be notified if
syv shows up for animes.
04:15:39 MidJag: So stupid question I know, but what exactlly do the differnet energies do? Like is it more becasue certain tumours are more resistnt to certain amounts of radiation? Or is it something to do with only needing to do one dose or something?
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04:18:00 Piecewise: So different tumors ARE more or less resistant to radiation depending on their cells of origin. And the tissues around them can also be more or less resistant. But the big deciding factor tends to be penetration. Radiation has what they call a "Dmax" or a dose max point, before which the dose to tissue is basically negligible. Higher energies push deeper before having effect and push deeper with less drop off after that
04:18:42 Piecewise: more "Central" tumors often use higher energy to penetrate more effectively
04:19:06 MidJag: Huh, intresting. I didn't know that higher energy could result in less surronding tissue damage.
04:20:25 Piecewise: But its a balancing act. They tend to use higher energies on more focused beams
04:20:33 Piecewise: and they tend to never just hit from one angle
04:20:45 Piecewise: they hit from multiple angles, converging on the tumor
04:21:28 Piecewise: so you'll only get 10 gy dose through surrounding tissue but the tumor itself will get 80gy from the converging beams
04:23:11 Piecewise: And of course we do the treatment over like 30 days
04:26:57 Piecewise: You deep enough into medical hell to know what you're specializing in yet by the way?
04:30:30 MidJag: Not really. I'm still just applying to medical school. The current plan is transplants though.
04:31:53 Piecewise: Motorbike enthusiast recycler eh?
04:32:44 Piecewise: Don't know muhc about it myself, but its likely good work
04:33:36 MidJag: Yeah, the main thing I want to get into is xenotranplantion honestlly.
04:33:56 Piecewise: gotta find yourself a xeno first~
04:34:41 Piecewise: you might be transplanted 3d printed organs in 15 years
04:35:18 MidJag: Yeah, or it might never really be ready for prime time, no one really knows.
04:38:05 Piecewise: immunotherapy in cancer treatment is a lot like that
04:38:31 Piecewise: has some very promising aspects and some great results in certain cases, but right now is pretty underwhelming
04:38:41 MidJag: That's what I've heard.
04:39:47 Piecewise: Hyperthermia in combination with radiation is a good combo though
04:40:37 Piecewise: since cancer either can't or prefers not to produce proteins to prevent itself from denaturing in heat, combined with radiation it can be quite effective
04:41:31 Piecewise: I remember one guy talking about how people who survived cancers and spontaneously got better in the past were those who generally got some kind of tropical fever
04:42:06 Piecewise: makes sense I suppose
04:45:59 Piecewise: Here's hoping we both don't become utterly obsolete before we retire!
04:50:13 Piecewise: You'll drink to anything~
04:51:27 MidJag: Tonight? Absoulutelly :P
04:52:18 Piecewise: Getting that doctor's liver started
04:53:51 Piecewise: Looks to be leaning hard biden for the moment
04:57:07 Piecewise: Curious if it will get called tonight though
04:57:24 MidJag: Yeah, I would be suprised, but weirder shits happened this year.
04:57:43 Piecewise: Jeb bush is gonna sweep it in the 11th hour
05:01:53 MidJag: I feel like the bushes are an excellent example of regression ot the mean. The first bush was a CIA director, the next one mostly did a fuck ton of coke in the national gaurd, and the third one is just forgotten.
05:03:07 Piecewise: is there another bush brother who is so forgotten he's not even known?
05:03:31 MidJag: ...I think there may be actually.
05:05:51 MidJag: Yup, never even heard of them.
05:06:17 Piecewise: Marvin didn't even endorse Jeb
05:06:33 Piecewise: he endorsed the libertarian candidate
05:07:00 Piecewise: Neil was with Ted Cruz
05:07:32 Piecewise: Gee Willikers Jeb, you sure are popular
05:07:39 MidJag: That's gotta be rough when your own brother doesn't endorse you running for president.
05:13:59 MidJag: Perhaps that's why political dynsastys only seem to work for two generations, everyone starts making fun of them after the second one
05:14:52 Piecewise: the ones that do work longer tend to get rid of their families
05:16:04 Piecewise: Its a good way to remove competition I suppose
05:17:26 MidJag: Well of course, no one can assisnate you if everyone else is dead.
05:22:14 Piecewise: I should do more Hole tomorrow
05:22:27 Piecewise: been days since I've worked on it, between everything
05:22:42 MidJag: Understanble to be sure.
05:24:07 Piecewise: Like I said it will probably be around 500 pages in the end. Just a lot of stuff to write down
05:24:14 MidJag: I hate writing, there is no possible way I could write 100 pages to plan a game.
05:24:29 Piecewise: Its a good thing I enjoy it~
05:26:53 Piecewise: I will enjoy seeing players attempt to go through it
05:30:06 Piecewise: I've already made a lot of work for myself with critters and plants on this level
05:34:18 Piecewise: Its gonna be like...geez what 30 animals for just this level
05:34:30 Piecewise: luckily I have like 15 or so already planned out
05:34:42 Piecewise: need to fill out the different food web levels though
05:35:21 Piecewise: You know made in abyss?
05:36:06 Piecewise: Its my basic take on the idea of "Big Vertical environment"
05:36:25 Piecewise: It is a 30ish KM deep hole
05:36:53 Piecewise: with what I hope to be a reasonable, if alien, environment
05:38:32 Piecewise: hopefully people will like it
05:38:42 Piecewise: and if not, I've generated tons of ideas for the future
05:39:18 MidJag: Eh, your pretty fucking good at making weird but at least mostly logical settings, I expect people will like it.
05:42:16 Piecewise:
RC was already taking about hurling himself straight in just to see how far he got
05:42:47 MidJag: That would probably be my plan. Just go straight down the shaft and see what happens.
05:42:51 MidJag: Maybe bring a parachute
05:43:04 Piecewise: well, you'd get in a bit at least
05:43:51 MidJag: Has anyone tried a giant drill? Make it into DIG 2.0? :P
05:44:02 Piecewise: Heh, no one has talked about it yet
05:44:16 Piecewise: Still makign the setting and keepign it all secret
05:44:46 Piecewise: I'm interesting to see the ways in which they advance and are stymied
05:48:29 Piecewise: You in any games right now really or too busy?
05:49:53 MidJag: Honestlly too busy, I might join one once I finnally get done with these secondaries.
05:50:22 MidJag: And they're mostly copy and paste jobs since I've already written a ton of similar ones.
05:51:17 Piecewise: A lot of school is busywork it seems
05:51:36 Piecewise: something to fill the gradebook between the tests
05:52:47 MidJag: And this even worse, it's administrative busy work just so they can pretend to get more information, so it's even more pointless
05:54:09 Piecewise: I've got that in the form of "E-portfolios" for every class.
05:54:58 MidJag: That sounds awful. What are those even?
05:54:59 Piecewise: Where I get to explain, for every single class, that I was assessed using tests, discussions, and papers
05:55:32 Piecewise: Its basically an outrageously expansive interactive resume
05:55:56 Piecewise: that I AM 100% CERTAIN no fucking employer would ever look at other than to click the "Resume" section
05:56:05 Piecewise: and probably get pissed they had to go that far
05:56:58 Piecewise: The lead director of the program is one of those busy bodies who is always trying to innovate in meaningless ways
05:57:21 Piecewise: has a phd in fucking online learning or something and is bafflingly bad at it
05:58:02 Piecewise: Its whatever. My job is a technical one; I'll learn what I need to in the clinic
05:58:02 MidJag: I've always wondered how hard it is to get a PhD in something like that.
05:58:14 Piecewise: not very is the answer I assume
05:58:22 Piecewise: mostly a matter of time and money
05:58:24 MidJag: That's what I've always guessed.
05:58:45 Piecewise: A lot of PhD's really just need adequate funding and enough effort to get by
06:00:46 Piecewise: Doctor is probably like that right? Just make some guesses, pay a bill here or there
06:03:23 Piecewise: I mean....I've known a few...
06:03:50 Piecewise: We had a physicist who just left in the middle of the day to go buy shoes without telling anyone.
06:04:15 Piecewise: And a doc who saw a patient literally having a heart attack in the parking lot and refused to leave the building to help
06:04:28 Piecewise: refused to leave her desk even
06:06:25 Piecewise: The kind of compassion you want out of a fugging oncologist
06:06:43 MidJag: Christ. Yeah thats pretty bad.
06:07:27 MidJag: Yeah, medical school isn't that good of a predictor of ones quality as a doctor, and so far no ones really been able to figure out a good metric for what is a good predictor.
06:11:26 Piecewise: Probably something akin to a sociopathy scale
06:11:38 Piecewise: maybe testing in terms of WHY they want to be a doctor
06:13:07 MidJag: Yeah, it always struck me as odd that med school selectrs for incrediblly copmteitive cutthroat personalities, who then are also supposed to be compasionate and empathetic people after spending 8 years of college and med school vying with each for slots.
06:17:04 Piecewise: yeah nothing like building up brutality, arrogance, ego, and specific self aggrandizing traits in someone who is supposed to be a team leader who cooperates and listens
06:17:48 Piecewise: I actually read a book called...The woman with a worm in her head I think
06:18:01 Piecewise: about parasitology and such
06:18:10 Piecewise: and I got like 3 chapters in before I had to stop
06:18:51 Piecewise: because the author was just so up her own ass about her talents and skills as a doctor and stories about how hard university was.
06:19:07 Piecewise: Which, to give you context
06:19:18 Piecewise: the first case the book covered, the one thats supposed to drag you in
06:20:04 Piecewise: was her looking at a friend's spouse who had been ill, taking some samples, sending them off to a foreign clinic, looking in a text book, and then relaying the info from the clinic
06:20:19 Piecewise: I mean yeah, he had worms he got from cobra hearts which is weird
06:20:26 Piecewise: but the actual case was very banal
06:22:12 Piecewise: It was about the time when she was bragging about her "Trained nose to sniff out gangrene" that I gave up
06:22:39 Piecewise: You don't need a trained nose for Gangrene
06:23:53 MidJag: Yeah, gangrene is pretty obvious.
06:25:05 MidJag: Now I do know a micro proffesor who could tell the basic morphology of a bacteria by smelling it. Which was freaky.
06:27:36 MidJag: But yeah, a lot of docs can be insufurable. But hey, there's only like a 20% chance I'll be truelly insufferable when I'm one :P
06:29:39 Piecewise: Well, election seems to have stalled out
06:29:58 Piecewise: Been sitting at basically the same numbers a while
06:30:35 MidJag: Do we just need to turn the country off and on again? That tends to fix things ~
06:31:00 Piecewise: I think some people are already trying to do that
06:31:23 Piecewise: Oh well, chances are we won't know anything for sure till tomorrow. Or later
06:31:34 Piecewise: thanks to mail ins and such
06:31:53 Piecewise: I don't think there are enough electoral votes in "safe" states to really call it now
06:32:16 MidJag: I agree. It'll be intresting.
06:33:41 Piecewise: Apparently canadians are confused
06:33:57 Piecewise: if reports from my northern neighbor family are to be believed
06:34:08 Piecewise: they apparently thought biden would win easily
06:34:22 MidJag: They have far to much faith in the american populace~
06:34:43 MidJag: But no, I don't think Biden was ever going to win easily.
06:34:57 MidJag: I mean he's going against an incumbante after all.
06:36:35 Piecewise: plus he never struck me as the best candidate
06:36:43 Piecewise: he was made fun of a lot as the VP
06:36:52 Piecewise: He's really just "Not trump"
06:37:17 Piecewise: What I said is they should have got Obama to run as his vp
06:38:07 MidJag: Yeah, but he's more moderate then most of the other canidates they had so he's harder to demonize.
06:38:27 Piecewise: he's extremely tepid
06:38:44 Piecewise: I mean, one of the big things we know about him is he likes vanilla ice cream
06:39:34 Piecewise: Good thing that Hunter biden stuff only came out in the end when it was too late to really sway things
06:41:15 MidJag: But biden is just kinda like if you googled generic politican. It's hard to have a vehement reaction against someone who's very moderte and generic.
06:41:23 Piecewise: He's extremely palatable.
06:41:38 MidJag: palatable is an excellent descriptor of biden.
06:42:03 Piecewise: he's a rice cracker after a bacon and oxycodone sandwich
06:42:44 MidJag: That actually made me laugh IRL.
06:44:47 Piecewise: May we live in boring times
06:45:41 MidJag: Ordinarilly I'd say never, but a 4 year breather is always nice every now and then.
06:48:19 Piecewise: Lets make this fall of rome a tantric experience
06:48:44 Piecewise: give our grand kids some real fun
06:48:48 MidJag: Exactlly, it's only fun if you drag everyone else down with you.
06:49:22 Piecewise: Especially if you tell them what you're doing and they just can't stop it because of societal momentum
06:49:57 Piecewise: Its a specific fetish, I grant you
06:50:19 Piecewise: and it does take 80 years and an entire country to complete
06:51:35 MidJag: Only took 80 years to climax, but totally worth it I'm sure.~
06:52:31 Piecewise:
Piecewise played...well lets call it his fiddle...as america burned
06:52:48 Piecewise: from a ivory throne of toilet paper
06:53:18 MidJag: Sounds like a particuarlly dark episode of south park
06:55:16 Piecewise: in any case, its quite late for my old self so I think I'll turn in and see if there's still a country tomorrow
06:55:51 Piecewise: Hope I wake up alive!
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13:15:38 Piecewise: No new presidient yet
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