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02:36:12 Devastator: working on k-com, slowly.
02:37:18 syv: Practicing a racing map with an insane jump right now, it'll be in a tourney next weekend.
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04:39:27 syv: The spiderman game I play.
04:39:40 Piecewise: Oh that fan made attack on titan one?
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10:00:17 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Do fleshorrors dream of eclectic blebs?
10:00:17 Topic set by syv [Sunday 01 March 2020, 07:55:55]
11:19:44 er: They say it all works out in the end, but the end will be the one time it doesn't work out.
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14:45:51 er: Now I can bug you all while at work!
14:49:16 Piecewise: yelling at people on twitter
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15:15:16 er: So like, are angels supposed to split
15:15:28 er: Is that just a thing that happens
15:15:44 Piecewise: Its a thing that happens when you cut'em in half with a cannon ball
15:17:42 Piecewise: its not perfect halves by the way
15:17:49 Piecewise: one is bigger than the other
15:21:09 er: Well, I'm not quite sure what to do about this.
15:22:12 er: If I conjured a glass / obsidian / porcelain hammer, would it break if I hit something with it?
15:22:34 Piecewise: Why all three instead of just obsidian?
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15:30:51 er: Asking about all three because they all seem like they'd break
15:31:52 er: Obsidian is pretty much just glass, so I dunno why I'd use that. Sure it can be really sharp, but we're talking about blunt damage.
15:32:39 er: Which I could use Quicksilver for, but it needs a solid casing to hold its shape
15:33:46 er: I guess I could do a rare earth magnet greatclub with a mercury filling
15:34:17 Piecewise: MOstly I was just curious why mixing 3 shatterable things would make it not shatterable
15:34:38 Piecewise: Rare earth magnet is quite heavy
15:34:41 Piecewise: would be a good hammer
15:36:36 er: Wasn't asking about mixing them
15:37:27 Piecewise: I think obsidian would be best?
15:37:32 er: Do some bullshit and railgun them
15:37:50 Piecewise: They're all basically glass
15:38:02 Piecewise: or have similar properties to it
15:38:57 er: Um, is summoning lodestone more expensive per weight / volume than other metal due to rarity?
15:38:59 Piecewise: You could use heat control to solidify mercury
15:39:09 er: Is rarity a variable there?
15:40:18 er: I don't think I have any words for heat control. Is that a Telkal thing?
15:42:23 er: Trying to use Explosion to heat something up is one thing, but using it to freeze something is kinda absurd to me
15:42:35 Piecewise: AH, sorry, thought you had "heat"
15:51:09 er: If I made a tower shield out of solid sunlight, would it deflect starlight lances.
16:02:49 Piecewise: Hmm I dunno if it would deflect but it might absorb them
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16:24:11 er: I have internet access, and earlier someone walked up a d offered me a piece of cake
16:25:39 Piecewise: everything's coming up
Er
16:26:49 Devastator: cake is always cake.
16:28:13 Devastator: hence why cake is so good.
16:32:33 er: Frikker skelly, talking about gross stuff while I'm having lunch
16:33:01 Piecewise: How do you know its gross? Ever had a slice?
16:33:33 Piecewise: I'm now gonna walk one mile away from this conversation
16:36:17 Devastator: had to quit working on k-com, almost fell asleep.
16:36:50 Devastator: lots of whiffs, but someone hit the kaiju for the hardest shot since the bio-acid.
16:37:06 Devastator: or whatever that was,
Piecewise.
16:37:18 Devastator: the misfolded proteins.
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18:05:15 er: A grunts / mook /
ER knockoff in a dystopian setting, at the crossroads of corporatism and prosperity gospel, where money is literally virtue, and you're not allowed to die with a negative balance
18:07:34 er: I guess it's just omnitech but with religion and forced immortality, but whatever, idea!
18:12:23 er: Bah, nobody's telling at me about my brilliant idea?
18:19:36 Piecewise: So...a literal interpretation of the song "Sold my soul to the company store"?
18:21:17 Piecewise: actually this is a better version
18:33:14 er: That's been on the mind, yes
18:33:50 er: Your soul is your account, and it does belong to the company.
18:35:36 er: Even if you died permanently or went awol, they would just clone you a new body with no memories but the same debts, because they believe that your soul is tied to your account, not your mind
18:36:51 er: If you rebel you might wind up literally fighting a clone of yourself, still in debt
18:39:57 er: Expenses are counted as sins and sins as expenses
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19:45:46 er: Welp, nothing more to do but I'm here another 15 minutes
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20:01:05 Devastator: such is work sometimes.
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20:26:26 syv: I actually quite like that religious corporate dystopia idea.
20:26:51 syv: Food costs money. Needing to eat is a sin. Why? Because humans are flawed and inherently evil creatures.
20:27:11 syv: You must work and get pay to make up for your inherent sin.
20:27:40 syv: Cloning a dead man to pay back his debt is a sin, it costs money.
20:28:20 syv: But it allows him to pay off his debts, while costing the cloner some amount of money, thus being a selfless action. Unless the debt is added to his account, which is fair, considering it's his fault he died.
20:29:45 syv: Classical virtue has some real similarities to money, thinking about it.
20:30:00 syv: No forgiveness here, though.
20:30:49 syv: Hmm, is selflessness generally a sin? If you give money to somebody else, their virtue goes up, while yours goes down.
20:31:35 syv: Which is overall no change in world sin, but is you sinning by reducing your money, while the benefactor is being virtuous by accepting money.
20:32:06 syv: So greed and hoarding are literally the highest virtues...
20:33:02 syv: Is owning worldly possessions a sin, because they're not money? Or is it still virtuous to own a gold-plated toilet because it's fungible?
20:33:49 syv: What about inflation? Is inflation the simple fact that virtue degrades and depletes over time?
20:34:08 syv: Is printing money virtuous?
20:35:04 syv: Lying is often moral, it gets you more money, truth is only sometimes the best practice.
20:35:43 syv: Do those who possess the most virtue deserve more? Should money be paid to those most wealthy, as they are clearly better people than everyone else?
20:36:05 syv: If so, how does that work? It's still a sin to give money to someone else.
20:37:07 syv: If you have the choice between increasing someone else's wealth at no cost to yourself, or simply doing nothing, is either option more or less good?
20:37:46 syv: Your account balance doesn't increase or decrease either way, so is that like a personal preference kinda thing? Equivalent to preferring the taste of apples over the taste of oranges?
20:39:02 syv: Theft is wholly moral, even extremely moral, since it massively increases your virtue at essentially zero risk to your own virtue. If you die in the attempt, welp, still died with your virtue.
20:39:09 syv: But being robbed is a massive personal failing.
20:39:49 syv: If your soul is tied to your account, not to your life, and a negative balance leads to being enslaved so you can pay off your debt, that means to truly die you must ensure your account never loses money.
20:40:54 syv: If you're the wealthiest man in the world, maybe you wouldn't mind just living forever, but if you *wanted* to give it a rest and die, you'd arrange for your account to exist in perpetuity. Always hoarding more and more cash.
20:42:02 syv: What ties *me* to my account? Access to it? Ownership? Name? DNA? If I have an accountant manage my finances, why is it that the account is tied to my own soul and not the accountant's?
20:43:02 syv: Does *everyone* manage their own finances obsessively, since theft is a huge risk, and your account is literally the value of your soul?
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20:44:59 syv: ...
ER mentioned fighting your own clone, tied to your in-debt account. That implies you can escape being tied to your account.
20:45:14 syv: Do you become soulless then, not having money or debt to your name?
20:45:49 er: You just wrote a lot of words about my idea!
20:51:27 er: Ah, virtue is in a digital account controlled by the company, which is endorsed by god and thus the highest authority. You can't just give it to other people, all transactions are with the company, which has infinite virtue. It's a sin to use their services because those belong to them and you have no right to them. Regardless of the fact that they have enough to feed everybody.
20:52:18 er: There are priests who have authority to increase your virtue if you repent your sins to them.
20:52:41 er: Which doesn't take away the priest's virtue
20:55:29 Devastator: sorry, stepped away.
20:56:46 syv: Guess I'm reading KCom then.
20:58:19 er: Your account is managed by your Ledger, a mildly intelligent cortical implant. Removal of your Ledger is equivalent to denying your Account. This is a sin, and in addition your now-Ledgerless body is now considered to be soulless, because your soul is tied to your Account and your Account is no longer tied to that body.
20:58:53 er: Soulless bodies are heretical and must be destroyed
20:59:34 Devastator: religious oligarchy.
21:00:01 er: Which means it's possible to escape your account if you consider yourself to be a mind, but not if you follow thr belief system.
21:00:47 er: To die, you need only have a positive balance and purchase a form to close your account.
21:03:05 Devastator: what if you die otherwise?
21:03:17 er: Because in this game the players would be constantly in debt, Sinners with a negative balance can request an interest-free loan to purchase items, which will be granted depending on if it's believed that the purchase will make you more virtuous in the long run.
21:04:55 er: If you die and your memories can't be retrieved, you will have a new body cloned with no memories. This is the state the players will be in to start with: freshly cloned with no memories but lots of debt
21:07:12 er: If your balance goes a certain amount negative, you go from Sinner to Damned; no longer trusted to regain Virtue through service, you're admitted to mandatory Penance.
21:11:39 er: Perhaps this setting is too gloomful, but it's fun to think about.
21:12:03 syv: I do wonder how it'd mechanically work.
21:16:43 er: Should probably come up with ranks into the positive balance, so that if people turn out to be a true believer who doesn't just want to get to +200 and then die will have progression within the system.
21:21:03 er: ...oh yeah. Because buying clothes would cost money and thus most people wouldn't bother, the default body is a streamlined version of the human body without any unnecessary features.
21:24:03 er: I also liked the idea of having a prerecorded message from yourself to be played in the event you have to be resurrected without memories, so that would be a thing you have to put in your character sheet.
21:24:04 Devastator: that sounds more expensive to make them that way.
21:24:47 er: They got Conjurer machines I don't gotta explain shit
21:25:18 er: It's geometrically simpler and they're not growing you, they're printing you
21:26:25 syv: Well, that fight went... decent.
21:26:34 syv: Regenerating armor really sucks.
21:26:59 syv: Hey
Dev, how was the damage luck this time?
21:27:25 Devastator: I'd say you did a little below average, but you got that one big hit.
21:27:44 Devastator: that CK tank rolled awful, although I don't think one tank could have done it.
21:27:47 syv: The +AP on
ER's jet seemed to really help.
21:27:55 Devastator: It's noticeable, yeah.
21:28:08 Devastator: AP D or more is pretty good.
21:28:24 syv: Next month we should have +Power for the jets.
21:29:02 syv: And I actually have jets to sell, for once.
21:29:27 syv: I'm guessing the one dead jet is unrecoverable?
21:29:50 Devastator: same with the assault fish.
21:31:53 Devastator: there were a good number of survivors.
21:32:50 er: It lived and I lost nothing?
21:33:13 Devastator: Don't think so, all you had was the jet, right?
21:39:02 Devastator: mmm, I didn't list them. If they'd attack, they'd have basically just died for one shot before the thumper blew them up.
21:39:13 Devastator: you want them dead? I could retcon that.
21:39:47 syv: When you field the catgirls, have them stay back until they see infantry survive a hit.
21:40:43 er: No, I wouldn't have had them attack
21:40:56 Devastator: yeah, can include them that way.
21:51:08 er:
syv, I'm not sure if it's just because I read it when going to sleep, but I feel the need to draw a picture of what I think that update means just so I can know if I'm looking at it right
21:54:38 syv:
ER, how long did your ERA modkit take to develop?
21:55:18 er: I bought it from BM and reversed it in like a month
21:56:26 Devastator: It would have been about the same if you did it yourself.
21:56:28 Devastator: I think it was a 1.
21:58:04 syv: Doesn't that kinda hurt the whole "modkits are weak and give diminishing returns if they're not weak" thing?
21:58:16 Devastator: well.. no, they give a +1.
21:58:21 Devastator: the smallest possible amount.
21:58:24 syv: Becauss the ERA specifically stacks with other modkits.
21:58:27 Devastator: you can make ones that do better than that.
21:58:34 Devastator: yeah. I know it does that.
21:58:35 syv: And has a cap of C, but still.
21:58:45 Devastator: I'll have to see why, but I remember it specially does that.
21:59:25 syv: But... that implies you could have seven +1 modkits that all stack, and just give units a suite of +1s.
21:59:38 syv: With seven months' research. Split up to seven ways.
22:00:04 syv: Yeah. Which is not bad AT ALL.
22:00:12 er: Welp, gonna invest a bunch in like a +3 dodge software then
22:00:32 syv: I mean, Jets could have +1 power, AP, AND range like that.
22:00:44 syv: +75 cost per jet, but damn if that's not worth it.
22:01:10 er: Do they have the upgrade slots for that?
22:01:27 syv: Your ERA doesn't take the modkit slot.
22:02:08 syv: I've gotta be misunderstanding something.
22:02:13 syv: That's way too good to be true.
22:02:14 er: That might also mean the finished project costs +75 monis AND +3 small-workshop-months
22:03:05 syv: Kinda want to work out the economics of that.
22:03:24 er: Though you might put more research and have cheaper factories for those specific utems
22:03:53 syv: That's actually close to the point it'd still be worth doing, just for the megastatstick it'd produce.
22:04:05 Devastator: There's a couple of advantages to putting stuff into big projects, too.
22:04:14 Devastator: to compensate for the splitting up bit too.
22:04:30 syv: That's a B/D/C statline on a speed A unit.
22:04:40 syv: Needs more AP and range, but still.
22:04:44 er:
Devastator, could I research a version of the small workshop which is just cheaper and can only make era?
22:04:47 Devastator: other than payloads, mods will cost more.
22:04:57 Devastator: Should be able to. What's a small workshop cost?
22:06:19 syv: So +35 +research time +50 invest per modkit per turn.
22:06:26 Devastator: yeah, you should be able to. 25/5, makes only ERA, shouldn't be a problem at all.
22:07:04 syv: That's actually worth making, I think? Not sure, because ERA has the armor buff cap.
22:07:21 er: I'd go for that but people don't buy my era when I offer :p
22:07:39 Devastator: should be 1 or 2 turns, depending on what addendum I make to the building research rules.
22:11:21 Devastator: about the pile of mods thing, well, there are incentives to doing it that way. There are also incentives to not do it that way.
22:12:03 er: People are fuckers. I bidded the apc publicly for 50 and he bid 51 and didn't even tell me
22:12:24 er: Could have used that money for other things, fuck
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22:58:36 syv: I probably should've put some mention of size into it. The whirlpool is huge. Like twenty meters across or something.
23:01:09 Devastator: Aww, Alida can't plug it with her body, then. ;-p
23:01:42 syv: You're also far enough down the path that your "up" is closer to the water's "sideways".
23:02:19 Elastic_Ridicule: does the walkway continue down past the whirl?
23:02:58 syv: Not that you can really tell. It disappears into the water, and there's not enough light to see if it continues further from where you're standing.
23:03:25 Elastic_Ridicule: will it be a waste of my character sheet if I just walk into this
23:03:35 Devastator: hmm, so you're below the arena.
23:03:47 Devastator: dunno, if it's silent it probably won't kill you instantly.
23:03:52 syv: There are actions you can take here which will waste your character.
23:03:57 Devastator: could see you drowning..
23:04:22 syv: Try not to exercise radical freedom.
23:05:07 Elastic_Ridicule: I mean, if I jump off I'll get to tell if this place is actually unbounded or if there's a floor
23:05:55 Elastic_Ridicule: and if it really is unbounded, I wouldn't die and just have to wait for you guys to clear the witch ;p
23:06:25 Devastator: and that's right, you can't drown.
23:06:38 Elastic_Ridicule: and
syv says there are actions which can kill me, which would almost certainly include jumping off, so I can conclude even without trying that there is a floor
23:08:04 Devastator: maybe it's electrified.
23:08:50 Elastic_Ridicule:
syv, if the whirlpool were a creature would I already know or do I just have to try something creature-specific on it
23:11:46 syv: Labyrinths are weird, and everything is arguably a creature by some definition of the word.
23:12:10 syv: But I'll give you a freebie and tell you that the whirlpool is nonsentient terrain.
23:12:20 syv: Your powers therefore do not work on it.
23:12:32 syv: Do not try to mindcontrol the whirlpool.
23:13:51 Elastic_Ridicule is now known as ER
23:14:04 Devastator: a mind controlled whirlpool sounds messy.
23:15:03 GameServ: Some names to ponder: Inantila, Marwartygaynwarne, Charras, Melir, Bayakwarty, Vadayn, Estquincaradel, Harisfynsene, Dezdothliniam, Vadarryastarras, Yarew, Aldroty, Quarnedal, Verdcuthcarn, Rolazidwar, Kaque, Estcarnainsene, Dasartyarthter, Barunbinair, Arcarthnallir.
23:17:40 ER: well then, I can either shoot it, poke it, or walk away
23:17:58 ER: I can rule out the last option because I'm a slave to the sunk cost fallacy~
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23:21:27 ER: hurry up and kill your players~
23:22:24 NJW: I am the
NJW and I speak for the knotweed
23:22:27 Devastator: did the k-com update.
23:22:44 Devastator: Also, my game is too complicated.
23:23:22 NJW: yup, still have to read that. looking forward to it
23:26:26 syv: Well, the important thing is that I have surviving jets to sell.
23:26:38 syv: One of them could be yours, for the low, low price of >200
23:27:01 NJW: hm... want to buy a fog machine for 200?
23:27:06 syv: Assuming you have a large lab.
23:28:51 ER: want to buy reactive armor to put on your fog machine? :D
23:28:53 NJW: then no thanks. Try the smithsonian~
23:29:19 NJW: reactive armour? Sounds like you plan on getting hit
23:29:50 ER: I'm the one building the most absurd dodgetanks I can manage
23:30:33 ER: but for everything else, there's ERA
23:30:53 syv: That ERA is really nice BTW.
23:31:06 syv:
Dev helpfully PM'd me this:
23:31:15 syv: (
Devastator) ...Can't dodge aura-type aoe weapons.
23:31:15 syv: (
Devastator) it's impossible.
23:31:23 Devastator: also, your units are pretty tanky too.
23:31:27 Devastator: they're not just ddogers.
23:31:45 Devastator: cat dogers, apparently.
23:31:52 ER: yes, they're both tanky and dodge-tanky
23:32:04 ER: but I made them as dodge-tanky as I could~
23:33:00 syv: They are in fact so dodgy, they're considered flying units despite being wingless infantry.
23:34:17 Devastator: "Just dodging the ground."
23:34:34 ER: uh, no, that's not the line
23:35:08 Devastator: I prefer fighter-style.
23:35:28 Devastator: also, PMed you a question,
piecewise.
23:35:44 syv: Considering how often you tell me to make my planes into tanks...
23:36:31 ER: oh yeah, I also haz question,
syv
23:36:53 ER: I kind of expected to hear telepathy "shouts" that turn
23:37:18 ER: there wasn't a question mark there but that's the question
23:37:42 syv: Chalk it up to being too far away now.
23:38:02 syv: The desync is already really difficult.
23:44:18 ER: why are mosquitos such fast and sneaky fuckers
23:44:31 ER: couldn't you have made them a little worse, God?
23:47:22 ER: if I scare them off then I don't get the satisfation of their mangled bodies
23:51:12 ER: but I don't want to get bullet holes in my bed
23:57:41 syv: I like the order of your objections.
23:58:23 syv: Well, if you're against using real weapons, nothing to do for it.
23:59:16 ER: shooting tiny bugs isn't more effective than killing them by hand
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