00:56:14 Devastator: Man, I can't imagine what it's like in Vegas now,
Piecewise.
00:56:36 Piecewise: I don't look outside
00:56:45 Piecewise: But there is a machete right next to me
00:56:45 ER:
PW's holed up in his bunker
00:56:52 Piecewise: if thats any indication of the current mood
00:59:01 Devastator: I suspect that machete isn't a new thing for you.
01:03:01 Piecewise: its usually upstairs
01:03:06 Piecewise: next to the vault door
01:05:33 Piecewise: Really though, I'm up in the foothills and on the edge of town here, so I don't see much of the craziness
01:06:22 Piecewise: Casinos are the biggest employers here so them being out of business is bad news
01:06:56 Piecewise: apparently the governor shut down all businesses and made it so you can't get evicted...but you still have to pay rent
01:07:17 Devastator: Well, they did sign the relief cheque bill, so..
01:07:20 Devastator: you shoudl be getting something.
01:07:28 Devastator: Although I'm assuming you're still working.
01:08:08 Piecewise: As long as people are still dying, I'll have work
01:08:22 Devastator: I genuinely have no idea if I'll have a job next week.
01:08:46 Devastator: I mean, I will, because if they fire me I need to spend a week or so putting other people officially in charge of my stuff and doing paperwork.
01:08:52 Devastator: but after that, dunno.
01:09:29 Piecewise: So they're not putting you on leave but straight up firing people
01:10:57 Devastator: It mgiht vary. I'm in a position that will get nailed badly from this, supplying stuff that's gone.
01:11:15 Devastator: but up here there's EI payments if you get laid off, followed by normal assistance.
01:11:24 Devastator: there probably will be some cheques like you're getting too.
01:13:24 ER: so how about that doom eternal
01:13:42 Devastator: Yeah, it starts after a week, and this certainly counts as 'lost job while not at fault.'
01:14:06 Devastator: looks like they waived that week right now, too.
01:16:30 Devastator: minimum of 15 weeks of benefits, at a minimum of 55% of wages.
01:18:26 Devastator: looks like personally for my location specifically is 26 weeks.
01:19:48 Devastator: I earn enough for no extra suppliment so looks like near the base rate.
01:22:08 Devastator: Yeah. Probably be some extras too, but EI should cover my living expenses if I'm quarantined for like three months.
01:22:23 Devastator: well, for the duration, but I think I'd go nuts being stuck for three months.
01:32:38 Piecewise: Everywhere is shut down but my local gundam store found a loop hole and is staying open
01:32:52 Piecewise: god bless those japanese madmen
01:33:24 ER: my city relies a lot on food industry and we're not allowed to have open dining rooms
01:33:38 ER: so it looks like most places are switching to take out only
01:37:18 Devastator: does that mean you can get a supply of paint?
01:40:56 Devastator: and you can't be expected to be quarantined without robots. ;-p
02:17:31 Devastator: well, roll to anchorite's over.
02:42:04 Devastator: dangit, can't get the new version of TLD to install properly, and my long-running game was munched by save corruption.
03:24:19 Piecewise: Home depot is still open so I can get some paint regardless
03:24:23 Piecewise: but I have enough for the moment
03:24:31 Piecewise: building a hydraulic arm right now, for fun
03:24:48 Piecewise: finished my sniper raptor
03:25:33 Piecewise: Not sure what I'll do after that...maybe that hexa gear
03:26:53 Piecewise: it will finish downloading in 8 minutes
03:28:03 ER: I was watching some of it earlier, it looks hype
03:28:26 Piecewise: I'll be killing my browser and anything else running just to free up maximum resources
03:28:30 Piecewise: give it the best shot
03:29:06 Piecewise: Ah! my diaclone and beastbox come tomorrow
03:29:19 Piecewise: DHL is a great service
03:29:46 ER: I heard that you may want to turn off the steam overlay, that it's bugged or soemething to lag the game out
03:36:40 Piecewise: I'll leave this open because...I can't imagine IRC using much in terms of resources
03:37:24 Piecewise: Lets open up the task manager and start killing processes
03:38:35 Devastator: IRC consumes as close to zero as something can concievable do. It'll all be on your client.
03:39:18 Piecewise: lets see if this works
03:40:07 Piecewise: It says I have enough to run on minimum settings regardless, but "Run" is sometimes...iffy
03:42:18 Devastator: so downloading the day one patch?
03:49:27 Piecewise: its fully downloaded, it just has a "release date" that hasn't come yet
03:49:54 Piecewise: Steam sometimes unlocks via a "Midnight at X" style
03:50:01 Piecewise: sometimes it unlocks by area time
03:54:35 Piecewise: it unlocked....to download a patch
03:57:38 Piecewise: Its already 37 gb, come on guys
03:57:49 Piecewise: how many more of my bits and bytes do you neeeeeeed
03:58:19 Piecewise: The irony here is that my anime torrents are way faster than steam
04:02:06 ER: there are two alignments of dnd character
04:02:12 Devastator: I'm sure you could pirate it faster than legitimately downloading it.
04:02:15 ER: 1: "maybe we should just kill them"
04:02:24 ER: 2: "maybe we shouldn't just kill them"
04:02:42 Devastator: CG Baby! I reject both! ;-p
04:03:24 ER: CG is just a multiclass between those two
04:06:05 Piecewise: The classes are kind of weird
04:06:11 Piecewise: or alignments I should say
04:06:28 Piecewise: "Chaotic" Good is less "Chaotic" and more "Lawless"
04:08:19 ER: that depends on your interpretation of alignment
04:08:41 ER: and while we all know that
Dev's interpretation is the objectively correct one, everyone has their own
04:09:12 ER: I doubt you could find two people who believe the exact same thing about what alignment is supposed to represent
04:12:10 Devastator: "Lawless" is a shitty interpretation of CG, though.
04:12:11 Piecewise: Which is why alignments are dumb!
04:12:24 Piecewise: I'm chaotic chaotic!
04:12:30 Piecewise: WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
04:12:44 Devastator: Aye, people using them as excuses, yeah.
04:14:11 Devastator: eh, I'd give a good argument, but there's no point in arguing that.
04:14:19 Devastator: unless
syv is around and wants to do so recreationally.
04:15:22 Piecewise: Most people tend to misuse them
04:16:04 Piecewise: either misunderstand them or just use them to be an asshole
04:16:17 Piecewise: "I'm lawful good so I always have to be a complete shithead!"
04:17:01 Devastator: you can be a shitheel with any alignment.
04:17:28 Piecewise: Is judge dredd lawful Good?
04:22:48 ER: zombies are as smart as an average mammal, and motivated purely by hunger
04:23:37 Devastator: Because they have no existance beyond hatred for the living,
ER.
04:23:38 ER: there are monsters which are dumb and want to eat you which are unaligned
04:23:55 Devastator: that's a new thing made by people who hated alignments.
04:24:23 Devastator: who didn't necessarily have the wrong idea, but it's like letting people who hate games create one.
04:25:20 Piecewise: They don't HATE the living
04:25:26 Piecewise: do you HATE a sandwich?
04:25:51 Devastator: you could murder one, though.
04:26:00 Devastator: and I was pretty sure zombies have a hatred of the living.
04:26:09 Piecewise: depends on the zombie lore
04:26:15 Devastator: didn't that zombie movie we watch have them experience unending pain that was only lessened by consumption of the living?
04:26:35 Piecewise: true, but thats not hate, thats addiction
04:26:43 ER: listen, I'm going by the 5e monster manual because that's what I learned
04:27:04 Devastator: back in the day dumb animals were graded TN.
04:27:27 ER: some monsters are in the class abomination but are pretty much just animals. they'll kill you to eat you but aren't smart enough to be considered malicious, and are Unaligned
04:27:34 Devastator: Most undead were usually evil, but there was room for exceptions depending on circumstance.
04:27:49 Piecewise: I dunno but my gut says maybe
04:28:00 ER: every single undead is Evil, despite zombies in particular being no smarter than a beast, and said to be motived by hinger
04:28:23 Devastator: Yeah, that's baggage. They want them to be vulnerable to aligned magic.
04:28:44 Piecewise: oh it opened a window to ask me to update my drivers
04:28:59 ER: but then does that mean alignment is about personality, or about your frikking sphere aura?
04:29:47 ER: if your soul is made out of shit from the negative plane and you're otherwise a good person, you're Evil, because you being made out of "evil stuff" is mechanically important
04:30:05 Devastator: Welcome to fifth edition.
04:30:12 ER: but this also implies that acting goodly physically aligns you to the same energy as angels
04:30:19 Devastator: before the answer to that would be, 'no, of course not.'
04:30:47 Devastator: Pfft, if you can show me what 'unaligned' meant before fifth, I'll say it's inherant to D&D.
04:30:53 Devastator: Also, rule zero always applies.
04:32:33 ER: DnD is designed around a conflict between "good" and "evil", it's part of the rules
04:33:28 Piecewise: which becomes difficult when they keep throwing in morally gray shit
04:35:40 Devastator: 1ed where you got xp for two things.
04:35:46 Devastator: overcoming obstacles and stealing treasure.
04:43:48 Piecewise: updating this is freaking out the pc
04:45:15 Piecewise: we installed a day 1 patch
04:45:19 Piecewise: we updated our drivers
05:01:45 Devastator: I take it it's working.
05:02:54 ER: oh yeah doomguy gets an arm blade and giant energy sword btw
05:03:09 Devastator: that's doom now, yeah.
05:03:13 Devastator: eh, can live with it.
05:03:29 ER: aw, you're usually more fun to taunt
05:03:32 Devastator: fuck cinematic kills, though, slow the game down way too much.
05:04:04 ER: sync animation kills are the best thing to happen to 3d action games~
05:05:11 Devastator: I'd rather keep moving and shooting.
05:05:13 Devastator: gimme more of that.
05:05:26 ER: the general consensus about doom 2016 seems to be that it's very good and wouldn't be the same without the melee kills
05:05:27 Devastator: animations are cool, but after then 50th time, they're just pointless waste.
05:05:41 Devastator: Yes, because it's a poor game propped up by a feature that made it poor.
05:05:42 ER: they do serve a gameplay purpose
05:05:59 Devastator: Yes, the gameplay purpose of not having sufficiently satisfying guns!
05:06:15 ER: your opinion is certainly in the minority
05:06:47 Devastator: It's true, though, I'm not suggesting removing them and leaving the rest unchanged. I'm suggesting removing them, reducing enemy health, and amping up the running and gunning.
05:07:48 ER: plenty of games are just runner shooters. doom has a loop that's more like a character action game or something
05:08:01 ER: and the shooting does feel good, and is mostly what you're doing
05:09:06 Devastator: The reason why they made that design choice was based on limitations due to next-gen graphics requiring quite limited enemy numbers, which meant they wanted more oomph per enemy, and the rest was inevitable.
05:12:24 ER: and more enemies = better game?
05:12:25 Devastator: The new one looks to have more entertaining level design, which if they'd dropped the cinematic kill feature, seems to mean it could be a deeply fun an impressive game. As is, it's looking better than 2016, but too early to really tell.
05:12:43 Devastator: ..Kinda, yeah, I'd rather just lay them out than have to shoot and punch and shoot and punch.
05:12:56 Devastator: plus more enemies means you can get flanked and surrounded more often.
05:14:40 Devastator: but at least I think it comes down to deliberate design decisions resulting from technical limitations, so it's understandable.
05:14:45 Devastator: just not the route I'd have liked.
05:16:35 ER: hey
dev, have you played Devil Daggers?
05:20:15 ER: a bunch of low poly skulls try to murder you in a blank void, and you can shoot streams of daggers from your hand, and your score is how long you survive under those conditions
05:22:34 Devastator: that looks interesting.
05:25:46 Devastator: looks a lot more than that.
05:31:01 Devastator: yeah, that's more the kind of thing.
05:31:09 Devastator: you can have some of that and standard levels too.
05:31:36 ER: well no, devil daggers wouldn't really work as a normal level :P
05:32:34 Devastator: You could split elements of it up and convert a lot over.
05:49:17 Devastator: How is it,
Piecewise?
05:49:26 Piecewise: I'm pretty sure you can turn off the cinematic kills
05:49:37 Devastator: does it weaken the enemies when you do that?
05:49:41 Piecewise: saw an option about that in the menu
05:49:58 Piecewise: No. You can only kill them with the glory kill when they're on the verge of death
05:50:25 Piecewise: the game emphasizes management of resources really heavily
05:50:25 ER: I guess that just replaces the animation with you slapping them
05:50:53 Piecewise: chainsaw things to get ammo, melee to get health, fire to get armor
05:51:14 Devastator: Mmm, from what I saw in 2016, verge of death meant 'two shotgun blasts away' or about 1/3 health.
05:51:25 Piecewise: thats not true at all
dev
05:51:38 Piecewise: least not for anything above a zombie or imp
05:52:10 ER: like one hit for zombies and shit
05:52:25 Devastator: it was enough it didn't seem possible to miss a kill by accident.
05:52:50 ER: sometimes they'll just fickin die
05:53:09 Piecewise: often times you'll overkill them and they'll just splat
05:53:45 Piecewise: As far as I know, only the cacaodemon has a dedicated way to stun them
05:54:40 Devastator: dunno, gotta go by what I was watching.
05:55:03 ER: it's not like your toaster can run it~
05:55:14 Piecewise: I'd say it LOOKS easier than it is
05:55:52 Devastator: It looked not trivial, but not really hard unless you put it on the 'you die in two hits' difficult level.
05:57:11 Piecewise: the game is set up in a rather odd way where your life and ammo are always pretty low, but you can regain them by killing. So its kind of razor edge of continuing to fight and be aggressive so you can survive, but also not being dumb and getting ganked
05:57:42 Devastator: so about resource management instead of conservation, then?
05:58:34 ER: it's like bloodborne, you're supposed to avoid dying by being in a constant killing motion :P
05:59:11 Devastator: you're trying to keep the proverbial plates spinning?
06:00:28 Devastator: dunno. Still seems unnecessary. Just give me baddies and guns and let me shoot them all the time.
06:01:15 Devastator: "Look, there's a fun example of X, therefore it's wrong for you to want X." ;-p
06:02:28 ER: no, go play that game and tell me if you like it.
06:02:41 Devastator: maybe another time. Looks interesting.
06:02:56 Piecewise: I mean...shooting all the time is doom
06:02:56 Devastator: anyway, 2016 is better than 3.
06:03:03 Devastator: I'm willing to go that far.
06:03:42 ER: and I suppose the true successor to doom 2 is doom 2, because people are still making shit for that game
06:03:57 Devastator: There was still room to improve.
06:04:22 ER: yes, which is pretty much what modders are all about
06:04:24 Devastator: I do want a modern shooter where you run at 40mph and shoot dozens of guys with a half-dozen or so big guns.
06:05:39 ER: plenty of indie devs seem to have that aspiration, though most seem to be roguelites for whatever reason and I haven't heard of one that's particularly good
06:07:50 Devastator: gotta ditch the levelling element.
06:08:23 Devastator: just give people full power guns and spend the effort on three things. Making them awesome, good map design, and good enemy design.
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06:10:19 ER: so "do a good game design" :P
06:11:14 Devastator: lost my TLD savegame to corruption.
06:11:26 Devastator: so I'll do a fresh install from scratch and try to get the 3.5 version working.
06:11:35 ER: make the things that matter good and remove all the other things
06:11:39 Devastator: fortunately, saved my standalone file.
06:11:45 Devastator: Yes, it's simple but challenging.
06:11:48 Devastator: 'don't get distracted.'
06:12:04 Devastator: so I can install it again without repurchasing it.
06:12:10 ER: and then people are like "where is my meta progression"
06:12:42 ER: yeah, but I think that devil daggers is a good example of that
06:12:44 Devastator: Fuck that shit, if the game isn't fun to play you shouldn't have to be bribed into playing it longer.
06:12:51 Devastator: it does look interesting.
06:12:53 ER: to the point that they removed... level design
06:13:00 Devastator: that might be a step too far.
06:13:14 ER: it's a circle, and there's enemies, and you shoot them with two weapons
06:13:24 MidJag: Apologies, I'm going to bed, just tired and stressed.
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06:18:05 Devastator: same for you,
ER, stay safe.
06:18:06 ER: it's a hard time for everyone
06:32:10 Devastator: mmm, nope, still buggy. I'll look around.
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07:49:28 syv: "Game bad because I don't understand game"
07:49:43 syv: "Game bad because game has different priorities than I like"
07:50:07 syv: More enemies != better, more enemies == different.
07:50:46 syv: Doom 2016 is more doomy than the vast majority of modern games. It's not a Doom rehash, and has different priorities. It's not bad, but it is different.
07:52:20 syv: Far as I could tell, they made no bad design decisions. They made questionable decisions, but everything had a clear upside and was definitely made in the name of being an enjoyable tradeoff.
ER was a far worse designed game, and yet has received much higher praise from you,
Dev.
07:54:50 syv: Damn, I'm too late for the argument, aren't I?
08:00:04 Devastator: Just looking away at the moment,
syv.
08:00:26 Devastator: And yeah, I've seen much worse games than 2016.
08:00:36 Devastator: I did say I understood why they did what they did, right?
08:01:52 Devastator: all except making all the weapon functions unlockable.
08:04:26 Devastator: it's a gun, if it has a function other than regular fire/alt fire, with maybe a charge ability for some of them, that should be all of them.
08:05:15 syv: Gates advanced functions past the basic functions so that you have to learn the basic weapon, and in some cases also simply acts as a balancing tool so that there can be more of a difficulty curve available.
08:05:59 syv: If you were given the frag upgrade for the shotgun immediately upon gaining the shotgun, it would be preferentially used over the blast itself during the early game, and leave the player without close range practice.
08:06:27 Devastator: so have the grenade launcher be another gun, then.
08:07:21 syv: ...And the upgrade *is* fun, because it gives a nice kind of cadence to shotgun play. Too slow to be primary without cautious play, which also allows it to be strong enough to be notable. There's a very nice cadence to using the shotgun with intermittent fragging.
08:07:24 Devastator: If you want to make sure the player understands a situation in which to use the shotgun, do that through level design and loading tips.
08:07:30 syv: Complexity isn't always bad,
Dev.
08:08:09 Devastator: Eh, got intermittant fragging with the infinite use grenades already.
08:08:39 syv: And tried the shotgun frag?
08:09:22 syv: Because throwable grenades and shotgun grenades are very different in function and play.
08:09:44 Devastator: almost like different weapons?
08:10:43 syv: Yes, in the sense that a straight sword and a shield are different weapons in DaS.
08:11:13 Devastator: I just don't get why you can't teach the player through map design, if it's so important to have them not use the frag mode.
08:11:36 syv: People absolutely do shield-only runs, as well as sword-only runs, but that's not really an argument in favor of making it impossible to use both a sword and shield.
08:11:48 Devastator: Well.. that's what you're suggesting.
08:11:53 Devastator: to not have both options immediately.
08:12:08 Devastator: and if that is that important, why not split the weapons?
08:12:32 syv: Amusingly I've long felt that DaS is much too free with good shields.
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08:13:22 syv: (
syv) Amusingly I've long felt that DaS is much too free with good shields.
08:13:54 syv: I liked how DaS 2 didn't give a decent 100% block shield until the very end of the first/second large area, and even then it was hidden in a dropoff.
08:14:24 syv: That's not to say 100% block shields are bad--but given before the player understands rolling, they can teach bad habits.
08:14:33 Devastator: like never blocking?
08:15:00 syv: That doesn't follow grammatically from what I said, but yes, the intended meaning is correct.
08:15:03 Devastator: Nah, I think you can get away with that for a sequel.
08:15:24 Devastator: But for the first game you should make the simplest option accessable.
08:16:17 syv: The problem is that the simplest option is simply less fun and interesting. The game is better off when played in certain ways, its strengths aren't apparent if you ignore core mechanics.
08:17:39 syv: In D2016's case, the frag shotgun can oneshot imps at a good range, pretty much at a click. Early on, imps are the primary opponent, and you only have the shotgun to deal with them. They're not too dangerous, but you have to learn to deal with a projectile launching enemy who can be very damaging in melee.
08:18:00 syv: Given a short ranged weapon, you naturally have to learn how to meld manuever with offense.
08:18:24 Devastator: so maybe the normal shotty should be able to oneshot imps too..
08:18:43 syv: If you were given the frag though, the easiest option would be to constantly run away, while pausing occasionally to aim, without having to meld offense and defense.
08:18:51 syv: This point stands whether it can oneshot them or not.
08:18:59 syv: Also I think it can at point blank? I forget.
08:19:07 Devastator: It's like three shots.
08:19:12 syv: I just know they're gibbed at any range if you direct hit with the frag.
08:19:32 syv: Huh. Well, it works gameplay wise.
08:19:35 ER: it would be weird if you couldn't oneshot an imp with a shotgun
08:20:16 Devastator: instead they chose to make you unlock the ability to one-shot imps with a shotgun.
08:21:17 ER: it's gating complexity to teach the player how to play in the intended way, rather than just yelling at them in tutorial texts
08:21:25 ER: this is generally seen as good game design
08:21:36 Devastator: Yeah, but you have other, shitty choices.
08:21:50 ER: it only shows you mechanics gradually, so that you can understand them
08:22:18 ER: so you do concede that the shotgun upgrade choice is good design?
08:23:08 syv: I googled it, shotguns do oneshot imps in 2016.
08:23:11 Devastator: It's making a very strong upgrade optional, when it's only preventing you from using an ability you should have already. If they wanted more dealing with imps with weak weapons, that should be time with the pistol only.
08:23:19 Devastator: Then what was I watching? It was like three hits, dammit.
08:23:37 syv: Difficulty levels multiply enemy HP.
08:24:14 ER: do you two want to recommend me games to play?
08:24:25 Devastator: No wonder I thought it was slow.
08:24:36 Devastator: everything was like three times as strong as it should be.
08:25:29 Devastator: I thought it was so you'd shoot it once and then autokill it.
08:25:33 syv: Yeah, it's super weird that developers put in basic features that the vast majority of the audience wants and enjoys, like difficulty levels that multiply hitpoints.
08:25:46 Devastator: much better to multiply enemies than hitpoints..
08:26:17 syv: That requires substantially more development time and playtesting.
08:26:46 syv: Customizing the entire game to have varying difficulty by situation is objectively better than simply running a script on stats.
08:27:12 syv: However, it's a lot more work, and doesn't really do the primary purpose of difficulty levels *that* much better.
08:27:25 Devastator: more benefit to efficient killing.
08:27:54 syv: You can't just say "every enemy spawn is doubled" though, that's the problem.
08:28:08 ER: max difficulty in doom seems to be "play perfectly or die, fkin scrub", which is fair enough
08:28:14 Devastator: you do it like doom.
08:28:15 syv: It can completely skew the game balance in unpredictable ways.
08:28:30 Devastator: place all the enemies for max difficulty first.
08:28:38 Devastator: mark half of them as not spawning on lower levels.
08:29:23 Devastator: I mean, it isn't nothing.
08:29:26 Devastator: but it isn't that hard.
08:29:49 syv: From what I recall, OG doom actually didn't do that. Every monster was flagged for a variety of difficulty levels, and they changed the enemy compositions at lower levels too. Mostly, just reduced numbers, but also downgraded and altered.
08:30:56 Devastator: well, in the case of downgraded, they'd have a big enemy for top and a lesser enemy for middle.
08:31:58 Devastator: I mean, it isn't exactly the same, but is it that hard?
08:32:37 ER: in game
dev, assume everything to be horribly frustrating
08:33:47 syv: I do think there's value to lower difficulty levels--a crappy player can still have the experience of fighting a horde, which is more fun.
08:34:06 syv: I might love DaS, but I don't really believe in gating good games away from bad players.
08:34:44 Devastator: Yeah, but I'm not saying no low difficulty level.
08:34:47 syv: And you already pointed out why the can't just have the highest difficulty level be complete monster spam. It just wouldn't be able to run consistently at high FPS on all computers.
08:34:59 Devastator: I'm just saying that a higher difficulty level is a lot more fun with many enemies than the same number of super-tough enemies.
08:35:15 Devastator: and yeah, back to 'we can't have lots of monsters' again.
08:35:44 syv: Eh, sure, I'll agree. It's a tradeoff between the game looking good and having a somewhat different high-level playstyle.
08:35:58 syv: I'd prefer more monsters as well, but I think they made the right choice.
08:37:04 syv: ...Egan also kinda has a point, I suppose. Bad players can beat DaS if they really want by leveling out of challenges. Unless you're just *terrible*, or give up, you'll snowball levels.
08:37:09 syv: Sekiro's a better example there.
08:37:30 syv: Sekiro just says "fuck you git gud"
08:37:55 syv: Also something lacking in Sekiro.
08:38:02 ER: Sekiro is a dick, but I also feel good for having smeched it myself
08:38:51 ER: and... I dunno, it kinda feels like if Sekiro had options to make it easier, fewer people would have experinced the joy of having those mechanics click for them
08:39:57 ER: how worth it is it for more people to beat the game, if they don't have a good time doing so?
08:40:54 ER: Sekrio is all about rhythmic swordfighting, how much fun would it be if you didn't have to execute it properly?
08:41:28 syv: No, I atually think Sekiro would be better off with a more DaSy progression.
08:42:10 syv: Not entirely DaSy--there's still core difficulty gating--but ISS would be better in broad if he didn't require so much perfection IMO.
08:42:21 ER: I feel a slight comfort in knowing that there's no way for me to be underleveled or overleveled :P
08:42:39 ER: it's an aspect of the game which didn't need to be there for me, removed
08:42:47 syv: You can totally be underleveled in Sekiro.
08:43:12 syv: Gourd seeds and beads are collectibles, and missing them can very much change the game and make it harder.
08:43:33 syv: I think Demon oneshots on slides if you don't have at least nine necklaces?
08:44:18 syv: "Why not just make weapons separate"
08:44:28 syv: Bah, Sekiro went that route, and it's purely hurt for it.
08:44:37 Devastator: ..yeah, it's more a question of 'why have weapons that aren't good enough.'
08:44:44 syv: Want to use multiple combat arts? Nah. Choose one.
08:44:55 Devastator: but if all HP was tripled, that changes the argument.
08:45:05 Devastator: because it was good enough.
08:45:26 syv: Yes, back to "play the game before you start criticizing all its flaws".
08:45:33 ER: I'd argue that all the weapons in doom feel good and powerful, even the pistol
08:45:47 syv: Again, I'm not really a fan of Doom 2016. It was about as fun as the average CoD for me, maybe a bit moreso.
08:45:59 syv: But I think it was excellently made.
08:46:12 syv: How did you feel about the plasma rifle?
08:46:29 syv: I never liked it. The rocket launcher also felt weak to me.
08:46:47 syv: Though I think that's just because Doom always has a weak rocket.
08:47:30 ER: I never played it. me and
dev are both critiqueing a game we've never played >.>
08:47:45 ER: but I have seen it in action, and I say them's good weapons
08:48:13 ER: maybe it changed a little bit, but the plasma rifle in Eternal looks pretty good
08:48:31 ER: fool, you thought that I played video games?
08:48:42 Devastator: what I saw of eternal looks better than 2016, but I haven't seen much yet.
08:50:52 syv: I'll wait for dubs to review and recommend it, then pirate Nier: Automata.
08:52:15 ER: I'll have you know that I spent none of my very enjoyable time with nearatomato looking at 2b's butt
08:52:31 syv: I'll have you know you were missing out.
08:53:05 ER: is it not enough to simply know butt is there
08:56:18 syv: I'm not gonna play N:Ass because it has a nice ass.
08:56:44 syv: Maybe if 2B had nice tits it'd be a different story, but no. I'd play the game because I really like MoS' song about it.
09:08:43 Devastator: nah, tits don't matter, facing away from the camera.
09:09:04 syv: See, that logically makes sense.
09:09:31 syv: But "This game has nice tits, maybe I should try it" is not even vaugely a logical statement.
09:12:22 ER: I suppose that if the relevant quality you're looking for is good boobs, then what you're looking for isn't a game
09:13:02 syv: Definitely aren't mutually exclusive, though.
09:13:17 Devastator: there are games with boobs in them, yes.
09:13:38 ER: boobs in games? I've never noticed such a thing.
09:13:57 ER: pretty sure videogames only ever feature men and flat women
09:14:32 syv: "I assumed those were merely grotesquely overemphasized pecs"
09:14:55 ER: but robots usually have giant boobs
09:15:17 Devastator: We should watch some Futurama..
09:15:21 syv: Which is why Optimus Prime had to wear a bra in the Michael Bay movies.
09:15:39 Devastator: that was a good show.
09:28:34 syv: My cat, watching as I walk out the door: "There is a new and exciting land beyond! Ripe for exploration, full of wonder! I must see!"
09:29:24 syv: Also my cat, after it has gone one foot beyond the door: "This is a terrible and cursed land! I must flee and find a place to hide, ere the screaming featherbeasts consume my delicious flesh!"
09:30:25 Devastator: Never had a cat like that, but I can imagine one.
09:30:30 syv: Cue crawling around under the house until I can find the dumb fuzzy idiot shivering next to a cinderblock.
09:30:41 Devastator: so it doesn't run back inside?
09:30:45 syv: (This didn't just happen, but it almost did)
09:30:54 Devastator: ..don't you have like 39 cats?
09:31:16 syv: Most of the outdoor cats died in the last hurricane. :(
09:31:22 ER: did some get eaten by screaming featherbeasts?
09:31:56 ER: that's a selection pressure and now you're stuck with only the cowards
09:32:15 syv: Nah, these ones are just coddled.
09:32:31 syv: Coddled little babies that weigh almost twenty pounds apiece.
09:32:48 syv: Could beat the birds to death EASILY, but no, no, scary noise.
09:33:10 ER: all beings should fear the caw
09:33:41 Devastator: You know it might be illegal, but you could just have a pet crow,
ER.
09:35:08 ER: now, why would I get earth's new dominant life forms angry at me by locking on inside my shitty hovel?
09:35:17 Devastator: you don't have to do that.
09:35:23 Devastator: you raise it indoors, yeah.
09:36:34 syv: Birds are already raised in very shitty hovels. Where the roof is so leaky it's not even really a roof. It'd be an upgrade.
09:38:05 ER: also pretty sure that "don't fuck with the birds" is a big federal law and I don't want to mess with the us feds almost as much as I don't want to mess with the corvids
09:38:05 syv: Though I suspect crows would be high maintenence pets. They're flocking birds, right? And super clever, so containment would be difficult. And then they don't have any ingrained pooping habits.
09:38:27 Devastator: crows aren't high maintenence. They mostly just want to be fed, and you can feed them outside.
09:38:31 syv: Could you litterbox train a crow, just because they're smart?
09:38:39 Devastator: And they're okay with having you as a flock, sometimes.
09:38:52 Devastator: basically you let them go after a year and about half of them will decide to stay with you.
09:39:02 syv: I thought most flocking birds required a lot of attention.
09:39:06 Devastator: Dunno about litter training. They might not have the muscles to actually contain it.
09:39:08 ER: eh. what I really need to do if always have tasty snacks in my pockets
09:39:14 Devastator: It takes a lot of attention while it's a baby, yes.
09:39:17 Devastator: after that, not so much.
09:41:14 ER: yeah, I'm saying that stealing a baby crow is going to evoke the ire of multiple forces greater than myself
09:41:58 Devastator: and they care about it for like an hour.
09:43:04 Devastator: because they lay several eggs.
09:49:28 syv: And the Feds care about it forever.
09:49:37 syv: Also because they lay several eggs.
09:50:19 Devastator: yeah, I suppose they would.
09:58:44 ER: just because I'm a little depressed doesn't mean that it should be impossible for me to write!
09:59:08 ER: this isn't even a hard task!
10:00:28 syv: Some people do it as a way to deal with emotions.
10:00:46 syv: Torture Stephen King for a month and at the end you'll have a great book.
10:00:58 syv: Other people see to just write because it's fun.
10:01:19 syv: And then there's us, people who try to write and then start screaming.
10:01:40 syv: Have you tried chewing gum?
10:01:47 syv: It works ridiculously well for me.
10:01:54 ER: write a good book, and by the end you'll have a month of torture
10:02:01 syv: By which I mean I can't update PS without chewing gum.
10:02:31 ER: I don't ever buy gum because it annoys me that it's artifically sweetened
10:02:47 syv: Pretty sure that you can buy gum base.
10:03:03 ER: by which I mean for somre reason I hate that, and for some reason I've never seen gum with real fucking sugar in it
10:03:08 syv: I've been tempted to, because I usually chew it long past complete loss of flavor.
10:03:13 Devastator: well, welcome to america.
10:03:40 syv: You're also in america,
dev.
10:03:48 Devastator: I'm in America's Hat.
10:04:07 syv: Bring some snacks for the birds
10:04:28 ER: what do I have that they would like, I wonder
10:06:47 Devastator: well, it's march, so breeding season.
10:06:51 ER: once I work out how to talk with them I'll have to ask what kinds of food they like best
10:08:22 ER: I wonder how strange people woulld think I am if I fried a bunch of potato bits purely to feed to crows
10:08:50 Devastator: that's maaaaybe a 1.9 on the 10 point weirdness scale.
10:09:58 syv: Birds do love french fries.
10:11:16 Devastator: they're made of easy to digest plants AND there's a lot of fat on them!
10:51:58 ER: I think that walk convinced me that my problem is that I need to go to bed
10:52:17 ER: also, got an idea for a strange... fairy tale, I guess.
10:53:53 ER: about a youth who meets a spirit who plays an instrument, and loves to perform for an audeince but nobody else can see
10:54:58 ER: so the spirit and the youth play music together, and everyone loves it, but the spirit wants the youth to give it credit for its work, and the youth refuses because nobody would believe them
10:55:09 ER: so the spirit gets mad and leaves
11:02:54 Devastator: most fairy tales are sad.
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11:04:11 er: It felt neutral, so I guess I was already feeling sad
11:07:23 Devastator: got the happy times.
11:07:26 Devastator: so not really that bad.
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11:31:44 sy: You know, I'd think my cell reception would improve with the Coronavirus. Less cars driving on highways, less competition for data and whatever. Or something like that.
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20:57:27 Devastator: posted the battle of new york.
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22:58:35 IronyOwl: thing was armored but apparently had trouble landing a hit?
22:59:11 IronyOwl: and I finally got to use a tank without losing it
22:59:15 Devastator: Yeah. Looking at how I rolled it up, the weapon should have been either a bit more powerful or with a bit more aoe.
22:59:34 Devastator: I'll make that adjustment in addition to the normal change made by the opfor.
22:59:59 IronyOwl: spreading out the artillery also seemed to serve us well... not that the artillery served us all that well
23:00:16 Devastator: didn't make a difference, actually, it didn't shoot at the arty.
23:05:39 IronyOwl: ah, so MAXIMUM KILL would have been the correct decision after all
23:11:45 Devastator: well, no, if your one missed shot hurt the kaiju, it might have made a shot on all four arty pieces.
23:11:49 Piecewise: Do I have machinegun wasps yet?
23:12:06 Devastator: Dunno, I'll do you guys next.
23:12:25 Devastator: but probably. I think you got a bunch of flesh and basic machineguns are well within reach.
23:12:42 Devastator: so they'll be armed this turn.
23:13:06 IronyOwl: what you gonna do with machinegun wasps bonesy?
23:13:09 Devastator: I got the numbers right here, actually, to see if that extra shot would tink.
23:13:19 Devastator: Rolling.. no shot available.
23:19:03 Devastator: any more questions?
23:20:30 IronyOwl: Just the stuff we're gonna get later
23:21:59 Devastator: I'll do yours now since you're on.
23:22:55 Devastator: eh, lets do everyone.
23:22:58 Devastator:
ER has infantry, so gets two.
23:23:58 Devastator: no, you don't have infantry, do you.
23:24:01 Devastator: then just one muscle.
23:24:08 IronyOwl: oh, is that how infantry works?
23:24:21 IronyOwl: at least one gives you +1 part, or you get +1 part per infantry, or...?
23:24:38 Devastator: you get +1 for having infantry.
23:24:49 Devastator: and it gives you +1 to recovering destroyed stuff.
23:25:07 Devastator:
Syv gets 1x Muscle and 1x Guts.
23:25:34 Devastator: CK are 1x Skin and 1x Muscle
23:25:52 IronyOwl: is that infantry or *surviving* infantry?
23:26:02 Devastator: Ares gets 1x Skin and 1x Bone.
23:26:10 Devastator: You have to have infantry around at the end of the battle.
23:26:27 IronyOwl: hrm hrm, will need to keep that in mind then
23:26:37 IronyOwl: looks like I have even more interest in
ER's catgirls then
23:26:40 Devastator: Eh, maybe you don't need as much stuff.
23:27:37 Devastator: but you can sell extras.
23:27:50 Devastator: and I think the only special roll I've had was your acid gland.
23:27:58 Devastator: which has been oddly bad so far.
23:28:03 IronyOwl: does more parts give more chances for special rolls?
23:28:25 IronyOwl: and yeah, this thing's sonic attack or armor plating (or whatever that ripple-regen was) coulda been real neat
23:28:54 IronyOwl: never had that before
23:30:07 Devastator: I gotta ask the guy with the deathwagon if he wants to put it down or bring it back to base where it'll likely rip and tear it's way to an escape, destroying a building.
23:30:47 IronyOwl: oh right, I forgot the deathwagon was... ALIVE
23:31:00 IronyOwl: well, I'm sure that'll never be a problem for me
23:31:53 Devastator: Yeah, want an answer there because I gotta calculate it's escape if he hauls it back.
23:44:06 Devastator: Then I can do the sheets for the organizations and tackle the mad scientists.
23:50:08 Devastator: welp, lets see what it breaks.
23:55:26 IronyOwl: Both he and the beast went with 'yes'?
23:57:45 Devastator: Yeah, but it only breaks one building this turn. It is less hazardous when damaged.
23:57:52 Devastator: ..but if it breaks one that's not fixed, it's out.
23:58:58 Devastator: and.. that's a damaged building, so that's gone and it's out.
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