00:00:35 IronyOwl: I have 800 bux right now, so money's less valuable to me than research~
00:00:55 IronyOwl: I could probably figure out a money value
00:01:08 IronyOwl: political orgs be like that sometimes~
00:01:13 ER: how can you just *not spend*
00:01:39 IronyOwl: I do spend, I also just RAKE IN THE CAAAASH
00:01:49 ER: ...to be fair, intel gimmick happens to EAT my money
00:02:07 ER: not a lot of it, but it's probably negative value compared to you
00:02:48 ER: speaking of, I hear you got a raise
00:02:55 IronyOwl: oho, you hear things like that?
00:03:58 ER: all I get is you got a funding increase, which isn't actually helpful because I'm pretty sure we all have been doing well enough for that
00:05:11 IronyOwl: so yeah I assumed everyone was getting a raise every turn :3
00:05:26 IronyOwl:
Dev: does chatting cost food or something?
00:06:23 IronyOwl: I probably shouldn't say how much I make right now
00:06:29 IronyOwl: you might eat the rich
00:08:27 IronyOwl: well lemme ask you
ER
00:08:55 IronyOwl: how much would I have to pay you to research something for me?
00:08:56 ER: I can't until I have either multiple strike forces or a kaijuless turn
00:09:47 IronyOwl: now you see the problem with me selling you kaiju processing for cash, then
00:09:48 ER: Depends what it is and how long it will take.
00:10:05 IronyOwl:
dev says you don't need to respond to every single kaiju
00:10:17 IronyOwl: I say cowardice is for cowards
00:10:25 ER: yeah but who listens to
dev
00:10:30 IronyOwl:
Dev: WAIT, can you clone the bishop guy?
00:11:21 ER: this is the guy who spent most of
ER stubburnly sitting in a jail cell, are we really going to take his strategy advice?~
00:11:44 IronyOwl: no, though he seems to be handling jackals and mutant rabbits pretty well so far
00:11:59 IronyOwl: ...did he just hit on you?
00:13:08 IronyOwl: OH, the cloning is for ITEMS, haha
00:13:16 IronyOwl: here I was gonna clone and eat a villager
00:13:18 ER: Can you give me a small lab project, Irony?
00:13:27 IronyOwl: well the thing about that
00:13:55 IronyOwl: is that it costs one turn of lab research (on the part of the recipient) to receive blueprints
00:14:10 IronyOwl: so doing a 1-turn project for me doesn't do anything
00:14:16 IronyOwl: doing a 2-turn project saves me one turn
00:14:21 IronyOwl: a 3-turn project saves me 2 turns
00:14:22 ER: Yeah, I could do multiple turns really
00:14:50 ER: I have two scientists, I want to have more muscle and guts for next turn, but I only have one kaiju lab
00:15:23 ER: I don't deeply care about what my small is occupied with so long as I can get to the fucking catgirls already
00:15:39 ER: which is the med lab, hense you can have my small :V
00:16:55 IronyOwl:
Dev: what does that do? :x
00:17:12 IronyOwl: are you permanently an orc general or do you change back?
00:18:14 IronyOwl: okay so I should probably do more testing but
00:19:01 IronyOwl: that kind of roguelike
00:19:57 IronyOwl: well that was interesting
00:20:44 Devastator: I didn't even get to the dwarven minefield!
00:20:47 Devastator: or the enner beast.
00:22:39 Devastator: fuck the enner beast.
00:22:45 ER: second version of this turn: drop all research, build every security building, tell the council that I have a nice place to store their beastie. :V
00:23:01 Devastator: and fuck the orc marshal.
00:23:05 Devastator: and fuck the valpurium golem.
00:23:19 Devastator: and fuck the skeleton king.
00:23:24 Devastator: ..It's just a rough game.
00:26:20 ER: no really though, how do you have money saved
00:26:39 ER: I can think of ways to burn through all the money I have right now
00:29:05 IronyOwl: everything I want needs to be researched D:
00:29:28 IronyOwl: I should really get a large hangar and some tanks though
00:29:41 ER: everything that I *have* keeps getting broken and needs to be fixed or replaced ;P
00:29:55 IronyOwl: I've been losing a 250 cost tank every fight
00:30:03 IronyOwl: but just the one because I can't store two :p
00:31:16 ER: my drones were like 8 turns, so I don't think you'll have trouble picking something that takes long enough to be worth.
00:36:21 Devastator: why don't you have a large hangar, IO?
00:39:52 IronyOwl: I keep meaning to research and then build an even largerer hangar, so I keep putting off a normal available-now one
00:41:37 IronyOwl:
Dev: Can buildings be used the same turn they're built, like purchasing units and placing them in a building constructed at the same time?
00:42:29 IronyOwl: that was phrased awkwardly, can units purchased on Turn X be stored in a building constructed on Turn X?
00:43:29 IronyOwl:
ER I assume that spoiler contains plotting my destruction?
00:44:24 ER: It will unless you give me something to research, which you keep saying is what you want~
00:44:39 IronyOwl: yeah I'm trying to figure out the logistics of that
00:44:45 IronyOwl: do you have a high energy physics lab?
00:45:02 ER: No, but if you want to give me 500...
00:45:18 IronyOwl: well, "give" is probably off the table
00:45:25 IronyOwl: but like I said money is of dubious use to me at present\
00:45:36 IronyOwl: I should probably buy a bunch of stuff so that's no longer the case
00:45:48 ER: but you need it to construct hangers for a legion of tanks
00:46:26 IronyOwl: (or my fabulous BOTE)
00:51:27 ER: so cly you should help me construct a network of sensors so that we can find kaiju quickly enough for it to be helpful~
00:55:12 IronyOwl: it's an option... what was it, 200 cost 4-turns?
00:55:24 IronyOwl: and we don't know exactly what it does because
Dev has to figure that out
00:57:29 Devastator: that I have it pretty clear.
00:58:17 ER: hmm, no I think you should buy me a HEL instead ;P
02:06:00 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
02:08:04 syv: Writer's block apparently makes me do statistical analysis of random things. ._.
02:13:45 IronyOwl: hey
Dev can you tell us how long research usually takes?
02:14:06 IronyOwl: I'm trying to figure out how to offload research duties and it's highly dependent on length of research involved
02:14:18 syv: Haven't you done research? It usually takes one turn, unless it's something major.
02:14:29 IronyOwl: well that's the thing
02:14:36 syv: It varies a lot on what you're researching.
02:14:43 IronyOwl: presumably we're going to want to research big things?
02:15:08 IronyOwl: chain-research should be a thing
02:15:25 syv: Big things don't seem optimal, little things have a bunch of advantages.
02:15:29 IronyOwl: where you keep upgrading a design with multiple turns' worth of effort, but it's still a single blueprint
02:15:48 syv: Unless they're flying things, but even then, if we can develop small flying things, there's a nice advantage there.
02:15:54 IronyOwl: another nerd obsessed with statistical analysis and nothing better to do
02:16:12 ER: small flying things was 8 turns,
syv
02:16:21 syv: I take offense to that, despite its accuracy.
02:16:22 IronyOwl: you were talking about writer's block and statistical analysis!
02:16:38 IronyOwl: so yes what are the advantages of small things
02:16:55 IronyOwl: and
ER what's this about 8 turn small flying things?
02:17:23 syv: No storage space, don't need larger workshops, don't need larger labs to research, better resistance to single target attacks.
02:17:30 ER: I feel like I've explained everything about laser PD drones several time now but okay~
02:17:45 IronyOwl: I don't recall anything about them but that they exist
02:17:52 IronyOwl: I never knew you got a pricecheck on them or something
02:17:53 ER: small. flying. unmanned. armed with laser, which can shoot down missiles and such
02:17:59 syv: Disadvantages are possibly lower efficiency in terms of durability and damage to cost, but there's no data, and so far we've seen things that are smaller are cheaper without being too much weaker.
02:18:34 IronyOwl: that's sort of the opposite of what I'd expect
02:19:17 IronyOwl: so... in theory, the optimal strategy is hordes of laser drones...?
02:19:49 ER: yes, which is why I was making them~
02:20:06 IronyOwl: so why catgirls now? :p
02:20:14 IronyOwl: unless.. girls the size of cats?!
02:20:46 ER: because I want a cool megaunit, dammit.
02:20:53 IronyOwl: humans are way smaller than small, but that means units of them are a Medium-sized blob
02:21:07 IronyOwl: laser drones might suffer a similar problem, where they just don't do anything solo
02:21:17 ER: small size is ideal, but I also feel that we should consider getting on long research time things
02:21:46 syv: An artillery piece costs 50, and is only a little worse than a 250 cost modern tank cannon. Half storage space, so the tank might win if you're basing things purely off transport cost, but it's very likely that transport cost will only become more minor a cost as time goes on. Five arty pieces can absorb five direct fire attacks, which a tank is not guaranteed to do, and so far I don't believe we've seen any AoEs that can take out two arty pie
02:21:52 IronyOwl: if
Dev were here I'd pester him about whether miniaturization is a valid form of research/improvement
02:21:52 ER: laser technical is small, and is enough to do... something
02:22:08 syv: Now, things might change drastically with research. But I don't have any data on that.
02:22:56 syv: There is also the argument in favor of armor cracking. Stronger attacks have better chance of dealing scratch damage to tough kaiju, and if any damage is dealt, later attacks have better chances of dealing damage.
02:23:16 IronyOwl: well, that's likely gonna be my theme then
02:23:16 syv: But frankly I think that's more a reason to make single shot megamissile launchers, rather than tanks.
02:23:35 IronyOwl: already considering that alpha strike fuckyou torpedo on my beautiful and precious BOTE
02:24:10 syv: Yeah, I still suggest making it singleshot, and making it really good at skeddaddling after you fire it.
02:24:40 syv: But you're gonna have a real hard time convincing other people to research that for you, and you'll need to research a huge lab, then build a huge lab, just to start.
02:25:16 syv: Another reason little things have an advantage: we can start work on them *now*, rather than in four months.
02:26:45 IronyOwl: on the other hand, mad scientist labs only cost 100 per size tier
02:27:02 IronyOwl: so I could maybe get somebody boosting my bote while I build the facilities to actually do stuff with it
02:27:35 syv: Yeah, funding mad scientists to buff your sub is a pretty solid idea, especially if you wouldn't plan to copy it anyway.
02:27:37 IronyOwl: I have the suspicion I can't actually get it delivered to a mad scientist directly though, so I might need to research and then build a hueg hangar before I can do that
02:27:56 syv: Nah, I bet MSs can just get it.
02:28:14 syv: They can just get any units to the field by magic or science or whatever, so why not get stuff into their base?
02:28:46 IronyOwl: only trouble is it says larger than Large labs need to be researched first... not sure if that applies to mad scientists or is a copy+paste artifact
02:29:12 syv: There's a thought; sell your boat to an MS, and just have them deploy it, possibly with a stable agreement that they dedicate every other turn to researching stuff for you in exchange for use of the boat.
02:29:35 IronyOwl: do MS care about battling the kaiju menace, though?
02:29:47 IronyOwl: I'm not sure they get paid for it like we do
02:29:51 syv: Since they can just get any units, even practically immobile units, into the field without needing transport, obviously they should be able to transfer a boat that's only slow speed.
02:30:03 syv: Hell if I know! Be good to test, IMO.
02:30:30 syv: But, that'd let you buff the boat into being powerful, without needing to waste research time on giving it mobility.
02:30:53 syv: And it'd finally let me find out if MSs make larger things stronger than they make small things.
02:31:20 syv: Even without seeing the stats, I've seen some small MS projects, and if there's any difference, a huge with a couple turns should have a MASSIVE leg up.
02:33:43 IronyOwl: anyway nerd, here's my current estimates for the efficiency of normal bit processing vs doing research for me
02:33:45 syv: I decided this labyrinth should take place in a stadium. And that I wanted a PC to be present to see the transition. Had a cool scene in my head.
02:33:53 syv: But, now that I've committed, it is way too hard to write.
02:34:05 IronyOwl: what's hard about it?
02:35:28 IronyOwl: anyway my assumptions are that I produce 5 bits/processing action whereas normals produce 3; the latter seems well established, the former is based on a single data point
02:35:30 syv: Mostly the fact that I don't really know much about stadiums, and what I do know contradicts what I already want for the scene. I am a raging perfectionist, so this is troublesome.
02:35:40 syv: Cool, have all my bits. -.-
02:36:06 IronyOwl: haha, well... looking like you'd need to commit to a lengthy research procedure and a giant pile of bits to make it worth doing
02:36:24 IronyOwl: it's unlikely I'll be able to cover every org's processing needs
02:36:34 IronyOwl: so somebody's gonna have to do it themselves
02:36:42 IronyOwl: which brings me to the thing I wanted to ask you about, nerd:
02:36:47 IronyOwl: how do I price/arrange this?
02:37:03 IronyOwl: I have a service, I want to exchange it for another service... things get a bit fuzzy from there
02:37:09 syv: Hell if I know, do I sound like a marketer?
02:37:27 IronyOwl: you sound like a mathematically sound individual of great insight
02:37:34 syv: A straightforward exchange would be four bits for one research, preferably in a larger lab.
02:37:58 IronyOwl: yeah... but that's a net loss unless I can chain them together
02:38:10 IronyOwl: I could eat the investment myself and just accumulate research tokens with people
02:38:23 IronyOwl: or I could bring them onboard with plans scaling by contract length
02:38:27 syv: This gives a profit for the person you're trading to (they functionally lose one scientist, possibly some larger lab time, in exchange for more bits than they'd get) and leaves you with extra bits to sell to people who will inevitably need more than they have.
02:39:04 IronyOwl: well yes, as a straight trade it works, but then I have no method of conducting research other than turning around and doing the bit-trade thing in reverse
02:39:46 syv: I'm still not interested in building a bit butcher building, so yeah, I don't really see how it'd turn a big profit.
02:40:14 syv: Though, to be fair, we don't really have a good understanding of bit value.
02:40:29 IronyOwl:
ER has a desperate and irrational hunger, at least
02:40:50 IronyOwl: actually I take that back somewhat; we know bit value is tied to research value, because you need to use the same resource to get either
02:40:58 syv: I don't think anyone's made any units which require bits, so we have no idea how much they buff stats. If it's major, you might actually be able to make a huge profit on trading four bits for research time.
02:42:25 IronyOwl: do you know the value of stat scaling? eg is the difference between +2 and +3 the same as between +4 and +5, or no?
02:42:41 syv: It's exponential, I believe.
02:43:10 IronyOwl: I know the background lore is exponential, but in terms of combat I assume +1 armor doesn't make the unit "exponentially" tougher than it was
02:43:27 IronyOwl: but I could be wrong about that
02:43:33 IronyOwl: especially at higher values
02:43:38 syv: Armor is complex and I don't understand it.
02:43:50 syv: I'm pretty sure +1 durability *is* exponential, though.
02:44:11 syv: It's just that most anything below +3 is paper to kaiju.
02:44:22 syv: +5, +6, that might be able to take serious hits.
02:44:42 IronyOwl: well, that brings me to my next idea: in addition to not knowing how kaiju bits work, we don't know how they scale either
02:44:58 syv: And armor is... better with better durability. +6 durability +6 armor might be something that can tink kaiju attacks, or come close.
02:45:08 IronyOwl: like, is 1 bit +1 to a stat and 10 bits is +10 to a stat? or is the first bit more meaningful, or do they hit certain thresholds, or...?
02:45:27 IronyOwl: which would also affect bit value
02:45:48 IronyOwl: but if at least some stats are exponential, anything that improves designs is theoretically exponential
02:46:03 IronyOwl: so it's looking good for bit value, at least
02:47:21 IronyOwl: might as well check, but I'm guessing trying to put a money value on bits is unlikely?
02:47:39 IronyOwl: their main bottleneck is research, which is only indirectly cash-gated
02:47:44 syv: I think it was like 10 or 20 per? Maybe that's for parts.
02:47:53 IronyOwl: that's for parts, but that's NPC market value
02:48:02 syv: If you can think up some way to buff fighter plane attacks in a meaningful way with bits, I'll give you a turn of small lab time for two of the relevant bits. ASSUMING it doesn't fuck over later research, like needing to spend more bits for every later turn of research.
02:48:17 ER: parts have casg values listed in the OP
02:48:26 syv: And this might not be immediate, I may have other more urgent priorities.
02:48:47 IronyOwl: I mean... I can think of a real obvious way, but I'm not sure I should do it
02:48:47 syv: You can probably get credit prices for bits if players make designs that need them.
02:49:14 IronyOwl: I got acid glands, so processing those would make real attack-boosting bits
02:49:31 IronyOwl: but obviously I have my own plans for acid too
02:49:37 syv: Problem is those being rare, I'd want something that I can reasonably mass-produce.
02:49:41 IronyOwl: and
Dev said something about reverse engineering the acid to be able to produce it on our own
02:49:51 IronyOwl: probably better for my dick rocket
02:49:55 syv: Muscle, skin, flesh, w/e as long as it's decently common.
02:50:31 IronyOwl: okay so what would be more appealing to you two nerds:
02:50:53 IronyOwl: 1. One research token + kaiju part for 4 bits, to be cashed in later on a research project(s) of my choice
02:51:13 IronyOwl: 2. Contract using the following table to determine total value, gaining more value the larger the order
02:52:24 syv: I'm not sure what you really mean by the latter. So probably #1, because I intuitively understand it.
02:52:42 ER: what's "one research token?"
02:53:03 syv: "to be cashed in later on a research project(s) of my choice"
02:53:37 IronyOwl: by the latter I mean, for instance, you purchase a 4-turn contract, which produces 3 excess bits, so you do research for me for 4 turns, I process bits for you for 3 turns and spend one turn learning the blueprint you give me, and we split the 3 bits somehow
02:53:47 ER: I'd be glad to take the second one so long as I got a high value deal
02:54:08 syv: Contracts are no, at this point in the game that's way too long term in planning.
02:54:24 ER: not what he said, I want exactly that
02:54:30 syv: It might be reasonable if I had a heavy bit cost that I could predict (units), but otherwise...
02:54:47 IronyOwl: so what I'm hearing here is diametrically opposed certainty
02:55:02 syv: Well yeah. It's me and Egan.
02:55:06 ER: I have a heavy bit cost which I can predict in terms of "I'm gonna want a lot."
02:55:18 syv: We have, like, the exact opposite playstyle most of the time. :P
02:55:45 IronyOwl: "Slow and methodical" vs "FUCK YOU I HAVE CATGIRLS" ?
02:56:04 syv: Yeah, that's pretty much exactly it.
02:56:32 syv: Oh, it occurs to me--you can probably get better deals from MSs. They have more research turns, and less access to bits.
02:56:51 IronyOwl: that's probably the real answer
02:57:43 IronyOwl: you know what I really need?
02:57:49 IronyOwl: inter-org recognized currency... so probably bits
02:58:12 IronyOwl: the issue with my current schemes is there's not much granularity
02:58:51 IronyOwl: and oh man is this all gonna fall apart if it turns out I produce an average of 4 bits/turn and I just got lucky this time
02:59:21 syv: I doubt that.
Dev seems to favor making the numbers bigger.
03:00:09 IronyOwl: other hope would be it's six bits and I got unlucky, but if normal processing numbers are this stable I expect it's wise to assume what we see is normal
03:00:37 syv: another case of insufficient data in k-com
03:00:47 IronyOwl: thinkin' about it,
ER
03:00:55 ER: this is why I don't worry too much about it,
syv
03:00:57 IronyOwl: but I also have
pw hungering for flesh
03:01:23 ER: one problem is we won't know how long a research will take until its started
03:01:31 IronyOwl: that's the other big deal
03:01:43 ER: feed
PW flesh so that I can steal it from him
03:01:43 IronyOwl: I suspect we can get around quick research by augmenting it afterwards
03:01:58 IronyOwl: not much to be done for slow research beyond expanding the contract, though
03:02:28 IronyOwl: if I wanted to go dire capitalist
03:02:58 IronyOwl: nevermind, not the actual problem
03:06:48 ER: you would hoard your money and not spend it on saving the world?
03:07:40 syv: You, know, that's a pretty strong bargaining chip, 'least with me. "Accept the deal, it helps teamwork" is a pretty solid argument.
03:08:03 syv: I'm entirely open to helping grease the wheels with other players by offering things, especially if they're cheap.
03:12:14 IronyOwl: if only everyone was so noble, I could make a 2-bit profit off every processing, then turn around and buy lab time with piles of bits
03:13:24 syv: It's not noble, I'm just fully aware that without teamwork, all these assholes will split off and do their own dumb shit with no cooperate, and we'll crumble like a house of cards.
03:14:13 syv: Making trades with people makes them more amenable to sharing information and plans, at which point I can tell them their plans are dumb, why they're dumb, and then give them better plans that actually work with their teammates.
03:14:18 syv: More politely than that, ofc.
03:15:13 ER: Yeah, reminder that we all happen to be on the same side of a war which will kill everyone if we lose.
03:15:19 syv: Don't confuse my narcisstic powergaming with nobility.
03:23:05 syv: Yeah, isn't that when you write?
03:23:21 syv: It's Saturday tomorrow, you can stay up late.
03:23:32 ER: well, it's now, "be awake in 7.5 hours"
03:23:46 ER: I work on the weekends, dummy
03:23:47 MJ has joined #einsteinianroulette
03:25:31 ER: I live in backwards land, the only days I can't sleep in are sat-sun
03:26:17 MJ: Those are literally the only two days I sleep in during the school year
03:28:00 syv: I went from listening to BB OST to this, it sounds very plain.
03:28:02 MJ: Ah, an
Ironyowl. A rare bird indeed
03:28:52 IronyOwl: I know of no such beast nor foul
03:28:59 ER: I'd be wary of the larger nocturnal predator
03:29:06 syv: "This sounds like a song that would play during the end credits of a surprisingly good indie film"
03:29:15 IronyOwl: especially since while jaguars can't fly, holy shit they can jump
03:29:16 syv: That commenter is 100% accurate.
03:29:28 syv: But yeah this sounds like something to listen to while leaving the theater.
03:29:54 IronyOwl: maybe during an otherwise soundless montage of some sort
03:30:03 IronyOwl: not sure what kind, though
03:30:16 syv: This is a feel good rebuilding-life kinda thing.
03:30:34 syv: Maybe a montage of the protag going about daily life in a completely normal, brightly lit fashion.
03:30:54 syv: After recovering from a drug addiction, judging by the one word I can understand.
03:31:05 IronyOwl: yeah... or like the groupie clothes-buying part before the movie's incident occurs
03:31:22 ER: and not exactly happy lyrics
03:31:38 MJ: I could see it being sorta bittersweet like counting the days till the return of something
03:32:36 syv: Yeaaah the only word I actually understood was "Chemicals", repeated ad nauseam
03:33:10 syv: Sure, it's a love song, that's the #1 genre for songs in general. Doesn't mean that's what it's gotta be used for.
03:33:28 ER: that's what the lyrics are about...
03:33:45 syv: It sounds upbeat and calm, tranquil; using it for a mournful scene would be out of place, and it's not active enough for good counterpoint IMO.
03:33:59 syv: Maybe something bittersweet, but it still just has too optimistic a feel to it.
03:34:06 IronyOwl: even without the lyrics, it sounded like it had kind of an edge or tint to it
03:34:21 IronyOwl: like yeah, it's too fluffy for an unironic murder scene
03:34:38 IronyOwl: but it still felt more "happy-ish part before the storm" than "yay happy"
03:34:48 IronyOwl: well, or after the storm, during the storm
03:35:01 ER: do you people's emotions only bounce between "fine" and "murder"
03:35:56 MJ: Is sleep deprived an emotion?
03:36:08 ER: no, that would be "confused"
03:36:13 syv: No, generally that's just sad/angry for me.
03:36:35 ER: I'm usually confused, and sleep deprivation makes it way stronger
03:37:08 ER: speaking of, I'm not sure if I actually can write Zeroth right now
03:37:28 IronyOwl: that reminds me... the message of the day said something about a test game going on?
03:37:54 syv: ** Topic: FMD development status: PM testgame running!
03:37:54 IronyOwl: ah, it was an acronym in the message though right?
03:38:13 syv: FMD is Egan's magical girl game. Full Metal Dress.
03:38:41 syv: Zeroth is a testgame of the gunplay system, to make sure it's runnable.
03:38:57 syv: I don't think it is, because I had a hand in making it.
03:39:01 ER: want to join these terrible spooks on their mission to complete a generic mission to test my gun universe?
03:39:22 syv: Invest in persuasion, please.
03:39:33 IronyOwl: shotguns are a form of persuasion right?
03:39:37 ER: because inducting you would be easier than actually turning~
03:39:42 syv: The only person to have positive persuasion is
Dev, and he's gonna be a deliberately contrary lone wolf.
03:39:56 MJ: Shotguns are always a form of persuasion
03:40:02 IronyOwl: tbf, loners are often surprisingly charismatic!
03:40:10 MJ: That’s how my guy thinks at least.
03:40:10 syv: Shotguns are one of the best statless guns, so... good for someone with charisma.
03:40:20 IronyOwl: well there we go then
03:40:45 syv: But yeah, we need someone to actually GET guns before any of us have anything better than pistols.
03:41:03 MJ: Let’s just find a guy with better guns kill him and take those
03:41:05 IronyOwl: putting the hobo in murderhobo are we?
03:41:30 syv: And knowing
Dev, he'll do the best to avoid using guns, defeating the purpose of the testgame, so we need someone else with pers.
03:42:10 syv: I am unreasonably angry right now, hrm.
03:42:29 IronyOwl: probably that writer's block and vice versa
03:42:31 MJ: Look, we just use
Dev as bait for Sec. then kill sec and take their guns.
03:42:54 syv: Also, Sov. Sovereign is the faction.
03:43:07 syv: But yeah, they have the best guns for wetwork, so that *is* a good plan.
03:43:17 IronyOwl: or we could join sovereign and get issued wetwork guns
03:44:30 MJ: They might even do the bait part for us depending on the future computer rolls :P
03:44:48 syv: I am not rolling computer again.
03:46:44 syv: My attempt to google for guns resulted in posting on a security forum that I wanted to buy illegal weapons from the military.
03:47:58 syv: No, I'm just dumb and American.
03:48:18 syv: Here, googling where to buy an AR-15 is totally normal and reasonable.
03:49:44 syv: Nothing we care about,
MJ. -.-
03:50:10 syv: Should I quote the munchkin post that mostly just repeats the rules in different words?
03:50:48 ER: I sent IO a catchup PM with everything so far
03:50:56 ER: including your munchkinry ,
syv
03:52:22 ER: I'm not entirely sure what I'd do if you tried to join Soverign. Maybe reject you because you're clearly not competant enough for them? ;P
03:53:53 syv: Clearly they'd send us on a suicide mission to attack one of the other factions, then use the fact we're former Aciremen to frame Acirema.
03:54:23 ER: That would be suitably nefarious
03:54:33 IronyOwl: though I doubt it'd need to be an intentional suicide mission
03:54:39 IronyOwl: just keep using us til the inevitable happens
03:59:50 ER: anyway, sorry in advance for not updating, IO~
04:00:09 syv: Should I add weapon weights to the gundoc,
ER?
04:00:35 IronyOwl: haha, quite alright
ER
04:00:38 syv: Sidearm-light-medium-heavy-brick, right?
04:00:47 IronyOwl: mostly because I'm not in a position to judge on that front :(
04:00:55 syv: Uhh. "Scariness?" Like how it looks, or how scary being shot at is?
04:01:17 ER: I could probably just eyeball that one though
04:02:30 syv: Hrm. Can you tell me something about how to handle that? Like, what kinda rolls, how often it should fail/what it means to fail? Or should I just give general descriptors like "Uhh?" "Ah!" And "AAAAHHHHH!"?
04:02:50 ER: honestly, don't worry about it
04:02:58 ER: I don't feel like thinking about it~
04:03:36 syv: Well... if you don't want to think about it, can I write the rules?
04:03:52 syv: I want to think about guns instead of PS.
04:04:31 ER: you can write what you like and I'll aprove of it or not tomorrow, or whenever I can think
04:11:06 MJ: I would suggest the uhh Ah and AHHH scale as the method all guns are evaulted by now.
04:11:35 ER: we're not ALL sexually attracted to guns here,
MJ
04:12:30 syv: Yeah, only some of us are TRUE Americans.
04:13:04 ER: not a big fan of nations, to be honest
04:21:22 IronyOwl: creatively unfulfilled D:
04:21:30 IronyOwl: speaking of which: "Guns have the following 12 stats, because this is a simple and runnable system:"
04:22:04 IronyOwl: no magic for the test? *SWINE*
04:23:08 syv: That sounds dumb but it's actually literally much less than *my* system would have.
04:23:23 syv: Seriously, it was kinda hard for me to hold back.
04:23:27 ER: Because Zeroth, in addition to testing mechanics for FMD, is pretty much a prototype version of my eldritch cyberpunk game.
04:23:33 syv: His system doesn't even have MOA calculations.
04:23:33 MJ: How many stats would your system have had
syv?
04:23:54 IronyOwl: he'd need to develop a system to calculate that
04:24:08 syv: I am ashamed that Irony is pretty much exactly right.
04:25:33 syv: Minute of angle. It's used to describe firearm accuracy/natural deviation of the bullet from the precise target point.
04:26:03 ER: bah, ain't nobody got time for that~
04:26:03 syv: One minute of angle is one sixtieth of a degree. There's also seconds, but that's not really relevant to firearms.
04:26:44 ER: I can't think of any videogames where that's really a thing seperate from character aim
04:27:25 ER: hmm, I guess games where you ADS and then there's still a cone of fire?
04:27:54 syv: Most serious videogames have weapon inaccuracy, though?
04:28:08 syv: In some cases it's perfect, but I'm pretty sure even CoD has it.
04:28:36 IronyOwl: phoenix point has a targeting circle, so I guess that's MOA related
04:28:40 syv: And, like, if CoD has a realistic element, you *know* the FPS genre is swamped with that mechanic.
04:29:27 ER: bah, pehonic point just stole that from valkyria chronicles~
04:31:50 syv: 1 MOA is 1 inch at 100 yards, BTW (this is one of those rare places where Imperial is *more* convenient). A modern firearm that shoots with 5+ MOA is considered pretty crap. And videogame firefights generally take place at crazy short ranges, well below 100 yards, so... a game with realistic levels of inaccuracy will very much make guns seem like lasers. Most videogames with inaccuracy have ridiculously inaccurate guns.
04:32:36 syv: Which is news to nobody who's actually fired a shotgun in real life, I guess.
04:36:09 IronyOwl: so what was this you guys were saying about please please please play a negotiator?
04:36:14 syv: I'd like to see you jump forty times in a row while carrying an AWM.
04:36:31 ER: CS is always at very close range, I think the cone of fire is more supposed to represent aim
04:36:58 ER: specially because you know, it changes when you run and jump
04:37:25 syv: @IO Having +2 persuasion on someone would be helpful.
04:37:38 syv: That still leaves you +2 in another stat, or a bunch of +1s.
04:38:02 syv: I don't really recommend +3, though I suppose if you do go with a shotgun it won't be all that ineffective.
04:38:25 ER: yeah, that could work as intimidation as well
04:38:44 MJ: Essentialy the issue Irony is that Syvs char is a guy who wants to run away and shoot things my guy wants to charge at people and beat them to death and
Dev is
Dev and we have no idea what he’s going to actualy end up doing. And beyond murder and healing no has the stars to interact with the general populace.
04:39:11 IronyOwl: so the team has no cohesion or plan, and is also poorly adapted to conversing with humans
04:39:41 ER: tho Goblin wouldn't be bad, with +1 persuasion and +1 intuition
04:40:34 syv: For reference, all the shotguns have 6 or less CQB difficulty, with a move pen of 2 of 3 (except for the full auto shotgun). So, with -1 CQB skill, that's a 91% chance of hitting in melee if you're standing still, and 63% chance if you run up to someone and jam the barrel into their mouth. At worst.
04:41:18 syv: At best, running and gunning into CQB range with a shotgun is DC 7, so 84% chance of success with -1 CQB skill.
04:42:11 syv: This comes at the cost of medium range combat being impossible, and shotguns being relatively heavy, but yeah. Having crap combat stats does not actually make you useless, as long as you're fine with playing the game like CoD.
04:43:43 syv: Also, if
ER follows my suggestions on scariness, firing full auto at enemies without the skill to actually hit them might still be useful~
04:44:42 MJ: Yay my build won’t be useless :P
04:46:10 IronyOwl: also why are none of you magical girls in the magical girl gun test run
04:46:44 syv: Ohh, yeah. Because this is just for the system.
04:47:06 ER: if you do want to play as a child, I'd give you lower health and nothing to make up for it though! :D
04:47:46 ER: good, found a way to make this spook team even worse
04:48:26 IronyOwl: players always find a way
04:51:48 ER: ...I'm not quite sure how to justify that, TBH
04:51:58 ER: please do the hard part for me
04:52:13 IronyOwl: how to justify what, child soldiers?
04:52:50 ER: well, in this situation in specific
04:53:29 IronyOwl: the land of FREEDOM believes men and women of any age should have the opportunity to serve their country
04:53:44 IronyOwl: also refuge in audacity
04:54:13 IronyOwl: nobody's going to believe a twelve year old with neon pink hair ran a checkpoint, so nobody's going to report that a twelve year old with neon pink hair ran a checkpoint
04:54:22 syv: She's really forty years old, which makes her old enough to enlist.
04:54:27 syv: She just *looks* like a child.
04:54:59 MJ: ....how long do people live in this world?
04:56:06 ER: eh, maybe elsic cult shenanigans could make you unaging immortal
04:56:26 ER: and also a walking conduit to the other side
04:57:05 syv: Nah just chalk it up to weird genetics and lack of nutrition, or something.
04:58:02 MJ: Hey, the short but healthy theory is a myth technically. ~
04:58:38 syv: Yeaaah you're gonna need armor.
04:59:35 syv: ...Yes, yes, we need to give the loli quadguard and an LWMMG. Yesssssa
05:00:29 syv: Lightweight Medium Machina Gun.
05:00:58 IronyOwl: I'm liking where this is going
05:01:07 syv: It's a machine gun chambered in a smaller AMR caliber which is heavier than basically anything else we issue to infantry.
05:01:10 MJ: Aww, I had thought I had dibs on the big guns from the +3 strength :P
05:01:25 syv: ...It also doesn't exist yet, but meh, it does in the game.
05:04:18 MJ: Is it weird that I already know what quad gaurd is?
05:05:22 syv: No, I've brought it up before, and it's not uncommon for people to talk about it when talking about superheavy body armor.
05:08:09 IronyOwl: oh so can Agility be used to "evade" bullet fire?
05:08:26 IronyOwl: I notice guns don't seem to take target characteristics into account for accuracy
05:09:00 ER: It might help getting cover.
05:18:02 syv: Sent you a PM with autofire/suppression mechanics,
ER.
05:18:18 syv: I tried to keep it simple, and it doesn't even need more gun stats.
05:19:07 IronyOwl: "I tried to keep it simple" implies that you failed :p
05:19:57 ER: is it as long as the existing gun rules?
05:19:58 IronyOwl: I have sent my character
05:20:21 IronyOwl: maxed Endurance/Agility to test out a mobility build, but also that +2 Persuasion to talk my way into/out of things
05:20:55 ER: alright, no 6 HP, but that's 6 Resolve
05:21:37 syv: Oh, bravery directly modifies resolve?
05:22:43 syv: I was assuming everyone gets 10, and it would just roll against scariness. With this, my writeup gives you penalties multiple times; once at chargen, and once for every roll you make.
05:24:12 syv: ...Do little girls have base 8 in all stats?
05:28:28 IronyOwl: budget cuts have not impacted our operational effectiveness
05:28:34 IronyOwl: this interview is over
05:31:22 ER: sadly the little girl has +0 spirit because you're not allowed to set Spirit for this test.
05:31:23 MJ: So are going Alex Rider now?
05:31:35 ER: Because it would do nothing and be a dump stat :V
05:34:19 MJ: This set of books essentialy about a kid who becomes a child James Bond Minus the sex.
05:35:09 ER: I would have inferred that from the child part but thanks for clairifying
05:35:50 MJ: Honestly pretty good book series
05:39:14 syv: In the description for the Dragon I wrote "first true infantry sniper rifle" rather than "first true designated marksman rifle". I must have been *exhausted*.
05:42:32 syv: It's supposed to be a direct reference to the Dragunov, which practically invented the concept of the DMR.
06:15:58 syv: Sent PM with improved armory, adding a weight class to all guns.
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09:28:11 Devastator: sorry for missing you,
syv.
09:35:56 Devastator: big stuff really can help in K-com.
09:36:04 Devastator: buuut, go all small, sure.
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21:56:02 Devastator: that's a hell of an update,
Paris.
21:56:04 Devastator: enjoying the quest?
21:57:33 Devastator: Also, the draggy penalty of "I get to eat you" is always a good motivator. ;-p
21:58:26 Devastator: Good mental image of draggy bouncing off a forcefield.
22:06:17 Devastator: Also, I'm normally totally in favor of going after the killer.
22:06:31 Devastator: although thinking that it might be a Sith is making me not sure if I should want that option more or less.
22:11:03 Devastator: Also, I'd expect that if he wants to be able to feel things, he'll get whiskers.
22:14:39 Devastator: We have to assassinate the leader.
22:14:53 Devastator: because that species is like an ostrich thing.
22:15:06 Devastator: Draggy can dive-bomb him and drag him off a bridge
22:26:25 Devastator: like an owl with a mouse.
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