01:14:30 Devastator: I don't usually play fort mode these days because werecreatures seem to demand using traps, and I really have no concept of how to run the modern military screen.
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02:12:58 Devastator: I am up for a DF fort, but I'd really prefer to not have vamps or werewolf infiltrators. Is that acceptable, or should I get over it?
02:14:30 syv: Doesn't matter much to me, though I don't really see why they'd be an issue. Screening for vamps can be annoying, I guess, but were chaos is good...
02:15:37 Devastator: It doesn't strike me as chaos, just a 'oops, you didn't kill the beast with traps or crossbows. More people die'.
02:15:47 Devastator: and if you do, no problem.
02:16:51 syv: Eh, that kinda sums up DF in general. "Oh, something went wrong? Then you didn't set things up to be as safe as possible."
02:17:41 syv: Weres are only different because they're less of a conscious choice to let people die... and since I'm really bad at making that choice, it improves the game for me.
02:17:45 Devastator: I'd rather run a little risky, but not in a way where everyone's dead after six months in when the first one shows up like clockwork.
02:17:57 syv: But yeah, it really doesn't matter to me. We can just disable curses.
02:18:12 Devastator: Good, means I can run a little riskier.
02:20:22 Devastator: I'll figure out the military thing if we do one.
02:23:24 Devastator: Well, it is a real inobvious pain in the ass..
02:23:44 Devastator: used to be you just drafted people, put them in squads, and gave squads orders when you turned them on.
02:24:06 Devastator: You could customize their gear by making sure the right stuff is right next to them when they're activated.
02:24:31 syv: Man, I started playing in... 2007? 2008?
02:24:58 syv: And yeah, the military screen is just a pain.
02:26:28 Devastator: I could set things up really good to give people custom gear just by using stockpiles and several workshops.
02:27:03 Devastator: and pfft, that late?
02:27:47 syv: Yes yes, I know you date from the 2d era. I still predate the modern military screen.
02:29:23 Devastator: I date from about as soon as it was publicly available.
02:30:45 Devastator: The forum then was.. different.
02:33:03 Devastator: Can't remember how I heard about it.
02:44:12 Devastator: Also.. there were updates during the 2d era..
02:46:50 syv: Back when the game was simple and could be changed rapidly. Back when Tarn didn't expect it to become his life's work.
02:48:18 Devastator: I'm not sure about the latter.
02:48:24 Devastator: Tarn thought it would take years even then.
02:52:45 Devastator: Going to get Pumsy's?
02:52:51 syv: IIRC even when he was making the fancy goal list, with bloats, cores, and all those, he had been knocking off multiple cores within a month. Which... doesn't happen anymore.
02:53:01 syv: Ugh. Yeah, at least gonna do something for Aleksandra.
03:01:45 Devastator: a lot of it was doing the easy cores first.
03:03:03 syv: Still, don't think he realized it was a decades-long project for awhile.
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03:36:23 ER: ~five. four. three. two. one. zero. go ahead.~
03:37:23 ER: please don't turn off curses, they're hardly dangerous anyways
03:40:04 syv: Thaaat's up to the two of you to decide on.
03:40:37 Devastator: They're hardly dangerous, but I don't like to do the trap thing.
03:40:54 ER: I don't see how traps even help you there
03:42:26 Devastator: you don't have to do melee.
03:43:37 Devastator: melee = more cursed guys.
04:16:48 syv: ...Why do you dislike vampires?
04:17:48 Devastator: I dislike having to screen dozens or hundreds of dwarves.
04:17:58 Devastator: I already have to do that as part of playing the game.
04:18:30 ER: that's not really intended gameplay
04:18:46 syv: It's not intended, but I do it insistently myself.
04:18:59 syv: And there's... not really good systems to deal with vampires.
04:19:48 Devastator: I'd rather concern myself with keeping them all fed and dressed.
04:20:03 Devastator: and trying to make every possible kind of food.
04:20:58 syv: Yeah, all my dwarves get plump helmets. Screw their preferences, just mushrooms.
04:21:15 Devastator: well, you might find more things than you expected, then.
04:21:26 Devastator: and the other crops are also mushrooms.
04:21:45 syv: And I hate clothing management. Forts usually die by the time it becomes an issue. Sometimes I ramp up armor production to give them unrotting "clothes", but usually not, because uniforms are eldritch.
04:22:15 Devastator: but making clothes isn't a tough thing too.
04:22:47 syv: I just don't like to bother.
04:23:22 Devastator: what do you bother with?
04:24:18 syv: Digging, making weapons, training militaries, fortifying, capturing things, killing sieges, training craftsmen.
04:24:54 Devastator: I do like doors too.
04:25:00 Devastator: and decorating furniture.
04:25:24 syv: I don't screw with decorations much, I just engrave everything that needs to have value. Usually also make rooms
04:25:32 syv: *Important rooms simply massive.
04:25:38 Devastator: Everything has to be decorated.
04:25:40 Devastator: or what's the point?
04:26:05 Devastator: I had an arctic fort that had to make all dining table furnature out of clear glass.
04:26:43 syv: Something is perfect not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Also, when its name is flanked by turtles.
04:28:50 Devastator: Good thing that arctic fort didn't last too long.
04:28:56 Devastator: it would have been sad when the ocean ran out of fish.
04:30:26 Devastator: No, generally don't do haunted locations.
04:30:40 Devastator: I like to play pretty loose.
04:30:45 Devastator: and haunted means having to play super-tight.
04:31:05 syv: What's the point of playing on a glacier if it's not haunted?
04:32:34 Devastator: ..so I had to feed everyone via fish.
04:32:58 Devastator: and, at the same time, had to get through a multi-layer acquifer.
04:34:06 syv: Ah yeah. Toady's nerfing aquifers. 'Tis sad.
04:34:35 ER: things were everywhere and convoluted to get around
04:34:53 ER: basically making a big barrier to people getting into the game on its own
04:35:06 Devastator: It's an understandable nerf.
04:35:10 Devastator: they're trivial once you know how.
04:35:19 Devastator: just a lot of unnecessary work.
04:35:44 ER: honestly, is fort mode a good game?
04:35:54 Devastator: It's better than adventure mode.
04:38:13 syv: Fort mode is a good game in the same way a vole is a good computer.
04:38:22 Devastator: Fort mode is a good game.
04:38:37 syv: By conventional meaning of the term, no. But it's still very very impressive.
04:39:01 syv: Also nerfing aquifers is understandable simply because aquifers are insane.
04:39:27 syv: They're stone layers reinforced with pressurized fire hoses that lead to the elemental plane of water.
04:39:42 syv: ...Well, not pressurized, but still.
04:39:57 Devastator: ..don't you live in Florida?
04:40:09 Devastator: I suppose you'd know not being able to dig because of water.
04:40:25 syv: Yes. Aquifers in DF are crazier than Florida aquifer.
04:40:36 Devastator: they can also consume infinite quantities of water.
04:40:53 syv: Holes fill fast, but not at such high speeds that a wall of water will push you around.
04:41:13 Devastator: that's the awesome part.
05:05:29 syv: Do dwarves that have had their feet cut off have bad thoughts about not wearing shoes?
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05:18:52 midnightjaguar: Or both of you?
05:19:16 midnightjaguar: I figured considering you wrote my name as miD which is something I would do~
05:19:35 syv: I didn't write your name as mid.
05:20:11 midnightjaguar: What was miD then?
05:21:01 syv: You said "Lo", I.E. "low", capitalized,
ER said "hi", I.E. "high", uncapitalized. The median between the two is clearly middle, so mid, and since each of the two preceding elements had a different capitalization scheme, the ending D got capitalized.
05:23:31 syv: ...The median between the two is neither or both. Certainly not something which doesn't appear in the set.
05:24:30 midnightjaguar: How’re you
dev?
05:25:32 midnightjaguar: Also we should run a succession fort at some time between the four of us. It would be entertaining
05:25:43 Devastator: want to watch someone land on the moon?
05:27:37 syv: You have time to play video games?
05:28:30 midnightjaguar: To both answers really
05:29:59 midnightjaguar: I may have time for video games this semester since I won’t be taking Ochem or physics and I’ll have more bio courses.
05:31:15 midnightjaguar: Though I’m not sure I would have time or energy to write like an entertaining after action report.
05:32:24 syv: Nor would I. I think it would be better to talk about what happened casually before shipping the fort off to the next person.
05:32:49 syv: Otherwise we'll get long long delays and pauses from m--
er, people just not wanting to write.
05:33:16 midnightjaguar: People could also stream stuff if they wanted I suppose.
05:33:40 Devastator: yeah, I wouldn't expect much writing.
05:40:40 midnightjaguar: What sort of embark would we do?
05:40:58 midnightjaguar: Evil? Wild? Something else?
05:41:42 Devastator: yes, something with cows.
05:41:44 ER: preferably in the next update, so that aquifiers are nerfed
05:42:23 midnightjaguar: ....I don’t think I’ve ever played in a nice embark in DF.
05:42:37 midnightjaguar: The closest is always wild
05:45:10 midnightjaguar: Nah never done Joyous
05:45:45 midnightjaguar: It’s always like evil of some kind or like by an ocean or Mountain or river or something
05:45:55 midnightjaguar: ...I’m not very good at DF
05:46:16 Devastator: Joyous Wilds sounds good.
05:46:20 Devastator: or just something plain.
05:46:28 Devastator: I'm sure we can make something terrible regardless of where we are.
05:47:32 midnightjaguar: Joyous Wilds might be cool
05:47:46 midnightjaguar: We can commit an all new kind of war crimes.
05:49:36 Devastator: Sadly, bay12 has that covered.
05:49:39 Devastator: dwarven child care.
05:53:34 midnightjaguar: DFs
dev logs always feel like watching the worlds most patient god make a universe.
05:54:59 syv: Joyous Wilds can actually be terrible, that was the joke. Unicorns are pretty lethal. Or at least used to be.
05:56:17 midnightjaguar: What is the king of beasts these days? It used to be giant sponges but now pulping took care of that.
05:57:23 syv: Pulping didn't really take care of that, they're still super resilient, apparently.
05:58:30 syv: Wiki lists giant sponges, giant sperm whales, giant kea (yeah, I can see that), unicorns, GCS, cave dragons, giant dingos (apparently just because they're common and come in packs), and giant elephants.
06:00:09 midnightjaguar: I lost a fort to Giant Kea once
06:00:57 midnightjaguar: They just killed everything
06:01:23 syv: Yes, giant wolves. They're just much rarer than giant dingos.
06:02:35 midnightjaguar: Giant zombie sperm whales sound terrifying
06:03:02 midnightjaguar: We should do an Evil ocean embark
06:03:13 midnightjaguar: I want to see this now~
06:03:37 Devastator: I'm fine with oceans.
06:04:07 syv: Add wolves with natural mouthswords?
06:04:21 Devastator: as I said, we'll make our own fun anyway.
06:04:23 syv: Drop Covenant of Artorias itemcorpses?
06:04:27 Devastator: I wouldn't want a too-lethal embark.
06:04:41 Devastator: might not last long enough.
06:05:05 syv: Year 1: We all died. Nevermind.
06:05:15 midnightjaguar: Sounds about right
06:06:42 syv: I've done enough evil forts, I could secure the first year without issue.
06:07:07 syv: It's really just getting underground and walling off the surface quick, anyway. Fairly boring.
06:07:25 midnightjaguar: Yeah that’s the downside of evil. You don’t do anything above ground
06:07:35 Devastator: I'd rather play loose and with above ground stuff.
06:08:36 Devastator: or just dig down, wall off one square, done.
06:08:38 midnightjaguar: Do we want to be by a river or any sources of water?
06:08:50 Devastator: Sadly, you're always by water sources with the underground cavern.
06:08:55 Devastator: so.. don't see why not.
06:09:00 syv: I always like valley rivers. The ones that have dug down a few Z-levels.
06:09:23 Devastator: I like cliffsides, personally.
06:09:35 Devastator: cliffsides with lots of trees are fun.
06:09:58 syv: Fort size? Do we all have powerful comps?
06:10:05 syv: Trees are fun. Lots of trees.
06:10:14 midnightjaguar: I like topside rivers. My best fort was a topside River.
06:10:18 Devastator: I have a very weak comp, but could do with it.
06:10:38 midnightjaguar: And I’ll be using my windows so not huge please.
06:11:16 syv: I tend to play small forts anyway, simply because they're easy to keep track of.
06:11:35 syv: Plus I can run a microfort on *both* laptops.
06:11:53 Devastator: nah, one square is too little.
06:12:33 Devastator: across two biomes so two sets of minerals.
06:13:09 midnightjaguar: Do we want to go for steel?
06:13:15 midnightjaguar: Or at least iron?
06:13:46 Devastator: It's not a requirement for me.
06:13:49 Devastator: we can always import some.
06:14:10 syv: ...I make lots of metal stuff in general.
06:14:19 midnightjaguar:
Dev is from the Bronze Age
syv, he prefers the weapons of his childhood~
06:14:21 Devastator: Same here, but it doesn't need to be iron.
06:14:32 Devastator: admittedly, iron is easiest.
06:14:34 syv: My second priority after food and housing is magma forges, and preferably a steel industry.
06:14:42 Devastator: always magma forges..
06:14:54 syv: I don't like bothering with coal.
06:14:56 midnightjaguar: I never really used magma forges honestly
06:15:28 midnightjaguar: I never bothered to set up enough plumbing to get magma forged running
06:15:59 Devastator: "My first priority is to dig 175 levels down so I don't have to bother with coal."
06:16:06 Devastator: Just makes everywhere samey.
06:16:30 Devastator: I've also done steel with nothing but trees before, it works fine.
06:16:57 midnightjaguar: That’s what I always do
06:17:37 midnightjaguar: You just defrost a large swath of the country side like in the olden days~
06:17:39 Devastator: Yeah. It was tough when you only got one log from trees, but now it's not that rough.
06:18:06 Devastator: hell, it used to be one log per tree that turned into one lot of charcoal.
06:18:09 syv: My third priority is to type d x enter > (held for two minutes) enter so I don't have to deal with coal.
06:18:25 syv: I think it's x for vertical pneumatic tubes.
06:19:52 Devastator: Although with that design there is the risk of someone falling 175 z-levels when tripping.
06:21:24 midnightjaguar: I mean if it works for giraffes it works for anyone right?
06:21:41 Devastator: I think giraffes can actually sit down.
06:22:44 midnightjaguar: Hmm. Time to google giraffes giving birth.
06:24:07 midnightjaguar: They appear to stand up when they give birth
06:24:15 Devastator: looks basically like horses.
06:27:07 midnightjaguar: I don’t think I’ve ever seen a horse give birth. I always assumed they sat down for it
06:27:15 Devastator: Nah, they stand up.
06:29:25 Devastator: welp, shows what I know.
06:30:12 midnightjaguar: Heh. Maybe you just saw some very strange horses initially~
06:30:54 Devastator: well, it's very quick.
06:32:45 Devastator: like less than five minutes.
06:34:33 midnightjaguar: Hmm. Interesting
06:42:09 midnightjaguar: Welp. I’m going to bed. Night
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07:01:13 sy: Nah. Would take too long, it'd get cold.
07:05:56 Devastator: I wonder if sasha's evil grandpa will have an evil soul.
07:06:20 Devastator: (no sense in PMing this stuff, anyway.)
07:08:29 Devastator: ..on the plus side, until we get another mercy, you don't need to describe souls!
07:09:35 Devastator: so sophia can examine souls.
07:09:40 Devastator: also control minds.
07:10:52 Devastator: and is low on soul.
07:11:00 Devastator: have to get her the next seed, then.
07:21:27 ER: stuck some store bought chicken salad and some lettuce leaves on some bread
07:22:02 ER: now I've got a plate of cherries.
07:22:56 ER: anyway yes, please carry me and then give me the dungeon reward
07:23:25 ER: cause otherwise I'll explode into something you don't want to fight~
07:28:24 Devastator: That's tough, because alida wants to fight everything. ;-p
07:32:48 ER: you can fight me if you promise not to kill me
07:36:11 Devastator: nah, I'm exaggerating.
07:36:25 Devastator: but in general she isn't going to be too afraid of fighting things.
07:36:43 Devastator: also, would kick your ass in melee worse than Ada did..
07:37:19 ER: if at first you don't succeed, fuck you I'm not giving up
07:37:51 ER: alternatively, the risk I took was calculated but man am I bad at math.
07:38:01 Devastator: "I turn into a wolf and go carry her around in my mouth."
07:39:35 Devastator: I mean, yeah, you might win, but the odds would be worse.
07:49:38 Devastator: Alida might also spend a CC and dislocate an arm or something.
07:50:15 Devastator: Although mind control would be a win.
07:51:17 Devastator: and then you can tell her to unscrew her head or something.
08:20:41 sy: Posted, it's just Aleksandra though.
08:21:16 sy: Amusingly the post went though at 4:20
08:21:56 Devastator: we're all too fast.
08:22:05 sy still can't write happy things
08:23:12 Devastator: could probably fix a house with DwR..
08:26:07 sy: Would probably scare the daylights out of the Siyankos in the process.
08:27:42 Devastator: just thinking about DwR uses.
08:29:57 ER: I like how Asha can't keep up despite the Mobility 3
08:30:37 Devastator: and everyone's got mob 3.
08:31:00 Devastator: somewhat unoptimal, because that means there's nobody to be carried by the wolf..
08:31:04 Devastator: ahh, well, that's someone.
08:31:17 Devastator: Didn't you say someone would need mob 1 to hang on?
08:31:40 sy: I may have. Sounds reasonable.
08:31:47 sy: Adelaide also has merely mob 1.
08:31:51 ER: Pure is a kinda wierd class to build.
08:31:59 sy: So the pures are both immobile.
08:33:04 Devastator: mob 1 is hardly immobile.
08:33:18 Devastator: it just means they take like 12 seconds to do 100m instead of like 4.
08:33:26 sy: As a support class, pures *do* need much less mobility.
08:33:26 ER: though one might ponder what kind of stupid anime tricks one could pull off with telented joy and mob 3
08:33:52 Devastator: I think mob 3 could reproduce the flipping in that last .gif you posted.
08:34:23 ER: someone tell tooru to do more sweet flips
08:34:50 sy: Ada has a much better defensive build than Sophia. RR, plus a CC shield.
08:35:17 sy: But Sophia is more of a nuke.
08:35:50 Devastator: only problem is the wolfy one was the one being attacked, not the one doing the flipping.
08:35:57 Devastator: unless that happened in the next ten seconds or so.
08:36:23 Devastator: you have the protowitch thing, right?
08:36:58 sy: It was a catgirl, actually.
08:37:02 ER: break glass in case of emergency.
08:37:19 sy: And yes she does. Aaaand MB4. And incite. And MC.
08:37:51 ER: I have a list of major problems to toss at people.
08:37:53 sy: Sophia is all attack, with her only true defensive stuff being stuff she gained from the witch, more or less because she didn't have other options.
08:38:39 sy: Though she *could* have taken relieving plight.
08:39:06 ER: easiest way to protect yourself from harm is to make sure the enemy is incapacitated or doesn't know you're there
08:39:23 Devastator: so the protowitch will be launching super-manabolts then?
08:39:28 sy: Ah yeah, skilled creativity.
08:39:48 ER: sadly I don't have options for sneaky POWERS.
08:40:10 sy: Camoflaged nuke would be a bit absurd.
08:40:19 Devastator: not necessarily impossible.
08:40:35 Devastator: although I'd think the uncontrollable or semi-uncontrollable nature of the thing would likely break invisibility.
08:40:45 Devastator: or make stealth a lot harder.
08:41:08 ER: just gives the invis something else to do
08:41:23 sy: Masquerade manip, just put a perceptual blanket over the thing.
08:41:25 ER: like, literally hide you from the consequnces of your actions
08:41:49 Devastator: very handy ability that.
08:43:16 Devastator: all attack is pretty useful.
08:43:26 Devastator: It's rough if your solo, but DPS is always a good role.
08:43:51 sy: She's not really DPS though.
08:43:59 ER: I guess Sophia's role is "weird DPS"
08:44:01 sy: She's a weird CC kinda build, really.
08:44:50 sy: As a funny note, a lot of my original notes for class roles and such directly used WoW terminology.
08:46:35 Devastator: You know my penchant for anachronisms.
08:47:20 sy: Just expected a negative response for "Oh yeah, these classes are partially inspired by MMORPG design."
08:47:42 Devastator: ..You just used 'terminology'
08:48:09 Devastator: implies planning and considerations about mutual balance and roles.
08:49:11 ER: sasha's sheet still says she's carrying her AK, but she put that down!
08:49:34 sy: Oh. This: "I see you lot are downgraded from those who are hope to those who are left. If this were X-com your rating for last mission would be poor and the council nations would be withdrawing support at this point."
08:49:50 sy: That change from hope -> left was intended ever since I wrote the OP.
08:50:08 sy: So I've been waiting TWO YEARS for one of you to die so that the change could be made.
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12:40:40 parisbre56[Away] is now known as parisbre56
12:42:02 parisbre56: hey everyone, sorry for no logs the past few days, hard drive overheated while I was away, only got home yesterday
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20:11:50 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: syvarris wishes Tactihell would update more often. ;-;
20:11:50 Topic set by syv [Sunday 04 August 2019, 03:51:33]
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