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03:34:39 Devastator: There aren't any ideal choices?
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07:13:58 Devastator: "The HoI 4 Netcode was written by a thousand monkeys on a thousand typewriters."
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12:14:55 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Intergalactic Day of Mourning for 2016 (2016-2016)
12:14:55 Topic set by Remalle!Variety@i2246816zi629tu21.vc.shawcable.net [Tuesday 03 January 2017, 06:26:56]
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14:55:07 Piecewise_: Getting Wind waker flashbacks here
14:55:49 Piecewise_: Man, do you remember when Wind waker came out originally and there was a massive backlash against it because of how it looked?
14:56:52 ER: nope I don't remember I'm young as fuck
16:39:56 Devastator: I played WW a bunch. I remember there being a looks backlash, but I liked it.
16:56:19 ER: liked windwaker right up until it asked me to fish up triforce fragments all over the place by grinding money and buying maps from tingle
16:56:47 ER: basically the end of the game suddenly becomes very boring
16:59:55 Devastator: Yeah, it is a bit aimless.
17:47:29 Piecewise_: the remaster version actually fixes that
17:47:41 Piecewise_: Or at least tones it WAAAAAY down
17:47:48 Piecewise_: You still do it but like...3 times
17:48:00 Piecewise_: or however much it was
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20:13:06 Radio_Controlled: Good evening gentlemen and gentiles.
20:13:12 Radio_Controlled: How are we doing?
20:13:39 Devastator: gotta head out soon, need to get some chores done in town.
20:14:16 Radio_Controlled: Decent, but tired. Gonna have to work tomorrow as well, though at least I did get some stuff done today.
20:14:45 Devastator: so spent a month not working, which is about normal.
20:14:49 Devastator: How are you finding birdgame?
20:15:28 Radio_Controlled: Also still have to ruin some foodstuffs and create culinary Armageddon tonight, also known as 'my cooking'.
20:15:36 Radio_Controlled: Yeah, you mentioned it before.
20:15:47 Radio_Controlled: Haven't read the last turn yet actually.
20:16:08 Radio_Controlled: Though I did see your pm just now. It's quite something, innit?
20:17:07 Devastator: It really did just seem like you offered less with every round of negotiation. You jumped at chances to offer me something other than what I wanted, and then you reduce the amount of that.
20:17:53 Radio_Controlled: All I can say is that I wasn't trying to scam you, but I did try to get a good price, true.
20:17:56 Devastator: Plus some of your points just seemed invalid. It wasn't no risk, because I could have lost my character's life or limbs.
20:18:14 Devastator: It also isn't the case that words are permanent bonuses while mana was not, because I can use mana to get permanent bonuses.
20:18:24 Radio_Controlled: It really did seem like you wanted those words quite a bit.
20:18:45 Devastator: I wanted a look at them, and I think the first one would have been worth about fifty to seventy-five gold.
20:19:04 Devastator: And neither of us knew they'd be reusable.
20:19:07 Radio_Controlled: I didn't say no risk, but really, as long as you didn't blow anyone's head clean off, we were covering the costs for any failures.
20:20:32 Devastator: You said no risk repeatedly.
20:20:39 Devastator: Like, four, five, six times.
20:21:25 Radio_Controlled: Did I? Where was that, could you quote it for me?
20:22:46 Devastator: "I did point out the discrepancy between the amount of effort/risk you were willing to go to for a certain profit versus the amount of payment you offered for our efforts and risks in return."
20:22:51 Devastator: 'certain profit', yes.
20:24:14 Devastator: "To wit, for a single turn of effort and no risk of losing mana from the deal Saeko would get two magic words and like 9 mana in pure profit."
20:24:48 Devastator: Mmm, hmm.. oh, sure, no risk of losing mana. That's what counts. I mean, you might blow your arm off and have to replace it with a gorilla arm, if you don't die, but that risk doesn't matter.
20:25:01 Radio_Controlled: No risk of losing mana indeed, since all the costs were covered in case of a failure. And yes, a certain profit.
20:25:31 Radio_Controlled: Well how exactly would you want us to insure against that?
20:25:49 Radio_Controlled: Apart from explicitly promising necromancy I suppose?
20:26:05 Devastator: I want it acknowledged by you guys paying more for optional improvements than someone else does for life-saving spells.
20:26:44 Radio_Controlled: Hey, if those word were truly as useless as you now say they are, we could buy them back.
20:27:08 Devastator: That's an idea. What's your offer for them?
20:28:40 Radio_Controlled: Also, in that case, would you acknowledge that the current explicit reward for the bughunt is very low for the effort and risk, and that without any concrete agreement on a discount it's basically working for free?
20:29:57 Radio_Controlled: Hmm, not sure. You said you thought they were worth 2 mana a piece iirc, correct?
20:30:11 Devastator: You also said you thought they were much more valuable.
20:30:25 Devastator: If you really believed that, and weren't just trying to put the screws to me, you should prove it.
20:31:08 Radio_Controlled: I don't really understand why me saying "You didn't have to take the offer if it wasn't to your liking" is unfair, while you saying "Then don't do it." isn't.
20:31:36 Devastator: If I had thousands of gold, I would have offered more.
20:32:05 Devastator: Look, we can discuss it when the rescue mission is over.
20:32:24 Devastator: You've gotten some spells at dirt cheap prices, right up front.
20:32:33 Radio_Controlled: But again, how much money you have or haven't is completely irrelevant since you have another easy method to improve the value of the deal for us. Even if both of us were broke, that's still be true.
20:32:49 Devastator: I don't have an easy method to improve the deal.
20:32:55 Devastator: I have.. 9 mana and under a hundred gold.
20:32:57 Radio_Controlled: Sure, if you want to wait until after the mission then that's fine by me.
20:33:02 Devastator: You have what, seventy and 2000 gold?
20:33:19 Radio_Controlled: Just a hello.
20:33:30 Devastator: but yeah, we can talk it after you save people. That's what the mission is, anyway.
20:33:38 Devastator: it's not a bug hunt. It's a reward for rescuing people.
20:34:10 Radio_Controlled: Again, all you would need to do is lower your asking price, and that is equivalent to us paying more for the spell and then you increasing the bug quest reward, it's just skipping a step.
20:34:24 Radio_Controlled: Yeah, sure, but bughunt is snappier to say, innit? :p
20:34:57 Devastator: So.. if I ask for less pay, you pay more?
20:35:08 Devastator: That doesn't make sense.
20:35:18 Devastator: a lower price means you pay less.
20:35:22 Radio_Controlled: Hmm, if it came down to it, what would Saeko prefer: us rescuing the people currently kidnapped (assuming that is even still possible of course) or us making sure no future abduction occur?
20:35:55 Devastator: Truth? Saeko doesn't like killing things. If you rescue the people, it might open the possibility of negotiation or a resolution that doesn't involve brutal murder.
20:36:18 Devastator: That's why the bounty was for finding the enemy base and for rescuing people.
20:36:27 ER: I'm going to assume she doesn't approve of you burning everything and calling it mission complete
20:36:31 Devastator: And you still haven't checked to see if anyone else put up money there.
20:37:02 Devastator: Eh, I think she'd be okay if it's a pile of dead bugs and a dead bug leader or whatever. But rescuing kidnapped people was goal one.
20:37:48 Radio_Controlled: Was gonna do that once we return from the mission, partly because pan would really like to get to the fun part soon. Can't blame him really.
20:38:39 Radio_Controlled: Obviously we aren't gonna go full murderhobo, but if we can get to their lair and a horde of angry bugs assaults us we're not gonna invite them to tea :v
20:38:46 Devastator: We'll talk when you come back.
20:40:24 Devastator:
PW is also on. Maybe he'll just tell you if any other bounty money showed up.
20:40:57 Radio_Controlled: Fair enough, I just hope that you won't decide to increase the price if we do well on the mission or Pan gets some mana from the fighting. I don't particularly like doing a dangerous job before being sure it'll be worth it, but fine.
20:42:01 Devastator: I gave you a starting offer already. I won't ask for more than that starting offer.
20:42:10 Devastator: I think you offered what, a third of that?
20:42:43 Devastator: Is that the point you want me to start at?
20:43:46 Radio_Controlled: Sure, but that's just too much for one d6 and one d12 spell, just pumping the 40 mana into the stat would be cheaper at that point. Since we don't know how much mana the spells&failures could cost, the price could be anything from 42 mana to 70 or more.
20:44:19 Devastator: ..so your starting point is too much for two stat increases?
20:44:38 Devastator: you offered 7.5 mana per spell.
20:44:58 Radio_Controlled: Latest offer was a certain 20 mana profit, and that's assuming we successfully do the mission.
20:45:09 Devastator: so.. 10 mana a spell.
20:45:26 Devastator: You know what? Fine. Do the mission, save the people, and you get it.
20:45:30 Radio_Controlled: And the bugquest gets done. At least acknowledge that.
20:45:33 Devastator: I get 20 in return.
20:45:52 Devastator: And please acknowledge that I'm risking death too.
20:46:33 Radio_Controlled: What in case there are no more people to save? Like they get sacrificed or something after getting abducted?
20:46:48 Radio_Controlled: Sure, the spells are not without risk to you, I acknowledge that.
20:47:16 Devastator: 16/120, straight up, per d12 attempt, if I'm doing the math.
20:47:27 Devastator: Then tell me the truth about it,
RC.
20:47:39 Radio_Controlled: We do our best to mitigate the risk by paying for spells to fix the damage, but we can't really do much to prevent a string of 1's ruining everybody's day.
20:48:01 Devastator: Well, you could, but that's would be too expensive for you.
20:48:23 Devastator: After all, not your limb at risk.
20:48:24 ER: It's
PW, even a string of ones won't kill you.
20:48:35 Devastator: I think it could in this case.
20:48:42 Radio_Controlled: How? I mean, to stay with your example, if her arms comes off or something, what then?
20:48:43 ER: Has a player character even ever died in Cabal?
20:48:52 Devastator: Critfail with this much power would be bad, and you can bleed out from that.
20:49:00 Radio_Controlled: Don't think so
ER.
20:49:02 Devastator: Yeah, but this is my character, and
PW knows I can take dying.
20:49:28 Devastator: Oz's almost died, as did Leng, who succeeded against a d30 to not die.
20:49:52 Devastator: Arm off, go unconscious, and die from there.
20:49:57 Radio_Controlled: Yeah, but we have doc kits ourselves as well, so as long as you don't OHKO yourself I think instadeath is fairly unlikely.
20:50:09 Devastator: Quite possible, but yes, fairly unlikely.
20:50:28 Radio_Controlled:
PW is fairly benevolent in Cabal though, compared to, say, MOOK.
20:50:41 Radio_Controlled: *grumble poor Jion grumble*
20:51:34 Radio_Controlled: Also, I don't think you answered this: "What in case there are no more people to save? Like they get sacrificed or something after getting abducted?"
20:51:54 Radio_Controlled: To know what we should expect if that's the case.
20:51:55 Devastator: Tell me the truth and make a honest effort.
20:52:28 Devastator: I mean, if you tell me where it is, I should be able to check myself if anyone remains there via Ape spells and a flying mount.
20:53:09 Radio_Controlled: We'll see what we can do. Hopefully we can press the attack after the ambush though, otherwise they might get spooked knowing that people are hunting them and relocate or something.
20:53:35 Devastator: Well.. that's kinda your problem.
20:53:39 Devastator: If you get ambushed here.
20:53:44 Radio_Controlled: Idea is to try and take a capture a bug so that even if we can't follow them through the mist we'll still have a lead.
20:53:44 Devastator: They don't hit every caravan.
20:54:08 Radio_Controlled: Might also try viscera-tagging one, gotta check with
pw if that idea would work.
20:54:25 Radio_Controlled: True, let's hope they do so we don't pay these mercs for nothing.
20:54:35 Devastator: eh, they're working for what, three gold?
20:54:58 Devastator: You can always just ride out and do patrols. Or the hideout might show up on your maps.
20:55:07 Devastator: and I think
PW is around, so feel free to ask him.
20:55:26 Radio_Controlled: We tried the maps, no luck there.
20:55:54 Radio_Controlled: We could patrol, but their lair could be anywhere in the area and is probably underground, from what we can discern right now.
20:57:12 Devastator: Should make a bug-compass.
20:57:17 Devastator: have it point you the way.
20:57:30 Devastator: or tag a bug with the triforce pieces it does search for already.
20:57:44 Radio_Controlled: Yeah, considered it, Pan has the right word but the wrong stats for it.
20:58:06 Radio_Controlled: Still, we got some options for plan D and beyond if A through C all fail.
20:58:16 Devastator: Well, you could have asked me to temp buff him while you made some mission relevant gear..
20:58:39 Devastator: But that wouldn't have been raw power, so I don't think you were interested in that.
20:59:10 Radio_Controlled: We can still consider that if A to C fail, yeah.
20:59:24 Radio_Controlled: Weren't mental stats fairly difficult though, iirc?
21:00:09 Devastator: Yeah, but a temp buff of d6 would raise it from d4-d6.
21:00:28 Devastator: it's more difficult than physical stats, but doesn't seem to be vastly harder.
21:01:02 Devastator: And also making a compass hunt down bugs instead of magnetic fields might just be an easy spell.
21:01:12 Devastator: Doesn't Pan have End?
21:01:16 Radio_Controlled: Something to keep in mind then if we can't get to them.
21:01:21 Devastator: It's end to make magic items.
21:02:07 Radio_Controlled: Yeah, though if they're underground it could still be a hassle, unless we start digging them out.
21:02:16 Devastator:
PW suggested me using View on a spyglass to get around my weak Know and let me see the underground chamber.
21:02:25 Radio_Controlled: Was it end for magic items? Don't recall right now.
21:02:31 Devastator: Yeah. It's end for magic items.
21:02:41 Devastator: was end for my armour.
21:02:46 Radio_Controlled: Gonna have to remember that.
21:03:23 Radio_Controlled: By the way
dev,
pw just dropped the list of MOOK items he's working on in the discord.
21:03:34 Radio_Controlled: Want the link?
21:04:07 Devastator: Sure. It's hosted on discord, though, right?
21:04:18 Radio_Controlled: Just a google docs.
21:04:36 Devastator: well, there's a chainsword.
21:04:44 Devastator: (Discord makes you log in to see most of their stuff.)
21:05:12 ER: sure is a lot of Occult using stuff, huh?
21:05:37 ER: is my character build somehow going to turn out to be viable? Weird.
21:05:38 Devastator: Yeah, but Occult is a stat.
21:06:00 Devastator: Definately going to buy an injection gun.
21:06:21 Devastator: I can buy explosives to deal with non-living stuff.
21:06:22 Radio_Controlled:
ER with a viable character?
21:06:28 Radio_Controlled: Pigs must be flying.
21:07:56 ER: the minmaxer who isn't a munchkin might tend to die pretty often
21:07:57 Devastator: Oh,
PW, can you add just plain detpacks to the explosive list? I might want to put explosives on certain kinds of unstable equipment as a way to force it to shut down if it starts going off uncontrolled.
21:08:14 Devastator: I suppose 'placed charges' are those.
21:09:06 Radio_Controlled: I should probably go cook the crime against humanity that will provide sustenance for me for a day or two.
21:09:41 Radio_Controlled: Might be back later tonight.
21:12:13 Piecewise__: Placed charges are basically demo charges
21:15:14 Devastator: I wanted something a little bit smaller.
21:15:31 Devastator: 'Break the pipe' or 'blow up the power line' sized.
21:19:15 Devastator: It'd probably take a roll to find the right place..
21:19:29 Devastator: Mec skill or whatever. I hope someone can help me with that.
21:23:51 ER: I recommended thermite cutting charges, which could be more precide
21:24:52 Devastator: Demo charges aren't precise.
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