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01:43:56 syv: How's Nested coming along,
ER?
01:44:38 ER: or 1/12th, if you want to be particularly uncharitable.
01:45:30 syv: ...Maybe I shouldn't have suggested you run
a suggestion game which would also have three full players...
01:47:04 ER: I don't feel it's likely I'll get anything done tonight, as I'm feeling a little bit of
a malaise.
01:48:12 ER: Maybe some combination of forgetting to take my meds and going to a burger place when I didn't want to eat
a burger and being surrounded by children and probably-drunk adult strangers.
01:48:55 ER: mostly
a feeling of disgust, really.
01:49:18 ER: Did NOT like the atmospehere of that place
01:49:21 syv: Ehhh, I want to say something about work ethic or something, so I get to play Nested sooner, but it'd be pretty hypocritical of me.
01:49:26 ER: covered in televisions, too.
01:49:39 syv: Starting to sound like an eldritch location.
01:51:29 ER: I ordered a piece of fish, and it was served on
a massive plate because this is an american resturant. The actual fish took up like 1/4th of the plate and the rest was covered in fries.
01:52:20 ER: For presentation purposes presumably. Need it make it look like you're not getting
a half-empty plate, even when filling that plate all the way is INSANE
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01:54:54 ER: well at least I brought home leftovers. really I shouldn't feel too bad about this but that's what makes my anger irrational.
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01:55:34 syv: You were in an unpleasant situation, so you're in an unpleasant mood. Sounds about as rational as any mood, to me.
02:05:06 syv: They're fast and hard to not be hit by when using
a short weapon.
02:05:41 ER: have you tried not challenging people's dogs to fights to the death?
02:08:42 syv: If I don'y kill them I'll have no HP left for fighting Kalameet!
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07:31:23 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Intergalactic Day of Mourning for 2016 (2016-2016)
07:31:23 Topic set by Remalle!Variety@i2246816zi629tu21.vc.shawcable.net [Tuesday 03 January 2017, 06:26:56]
07:31:23 parisbre` is now known as parisbre56[Away]
07:31:53 parisbre56[Away] is now known as Guest19446
08:33:45 Devastator notices that syv posted.
08:38:04 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
08:42:59 Devastator: Been trying to catch
ER for
a few days.
08:43:17 Devastator: Need to get money from his Cult character, and offering to let him sacrifice rodents for another favor point.
08:43:38 Devastator: Can you poke him about that next time you see him?
08:49:30 Devastator: anyway, thanks! Been lonely. Too much tree-packing, too little socialization.
08:49:52 Devastator: doing 22 million this session.
08:50:01 syv: Sure, I'll try and remember.
08:50:13 syv: I don't have the best record on memory, though. :P
08:50:21 Devastator: I gave him
a PM too.
08:50:38 syv: I assume you mean that your organization is doing 22 million? Not you alone?
08:51:10 Devastator: divided equally among the floor workers, my share is about half
a million.
08:53:47 syv: That... doesn't sound significantly more possible.
08:54:10 syv: Why are there only forty-four workers for twenty-two million trees?
08:54:24 Devastator: ..because we're packing them?
08:54:43 Devastator: they go out of their styrofoam blocks, get sorted, stacked, wrapped, and boxed.
08:54:58 Devastator: Then they'll get planted in the spring.
08:56:07 syv: How large are these trees? Inches?
08:58:42 Devastator: They're seedlings. Maybe about 10 inches of tree and three-four inches of plug.
08:58:54 Devastator: but there is some variation in size.
08:59:22 Devastator: We had both extremes today, some tiny spruces and significantly larger firs.
09:00:15 Devastator: Nah, 10 inches is
a bit big. 7-8 inches is more average.
09:05:13 syv: About how long does each take to pack?
09:06:25 Devastator: Today I wasn't on the line, I was doing other stuff. Yesterday we had more tiny ones, and I was doing about 20 every 8 seconds.
09:06:42 Devastator: ..of course, that's not actually 20 every 8 seconds.
09:06:50 Devastator: I was doing my bit on 20 trees every 8 seconds.
09:07:15 Devastator: So it's hard to be sure, really.
09:07:17 syv: Ahh, assembly line packing.
09:07:32 Devastator: Yeah, not like actually planting them, where you're paid per tree.
09:07:44 syv: Are there 44 people total, or 44 people doing your particular step?
09:09:43 Devastator: 44 people total. Generally people shuffle around to cut down on repetitive injuries.
09:11:05 Devastator: Also, we're not all on the line. Most of the people are on the line, but there are people emptying the greenhouses, unloading trailers full of empty blocks, moving vehicles around, and the three supervisors.
09:11:27 Devastator: There are also five lines.
09:14:51 syv: So five lines, probably doing around 20 trees a second, maybe
a little less.
09:15:05 syv: That's kinda impressive, actually.
09:15:56 Devastator: It's a big year, actually. 22 million is
a lot.
09:16:46 Devastator: ..also, I'm counting day shift there too. They run two shifts.
09:17:36 syv: Different number of lines by shift?
09:18:33 Devastator: They work in the same room. Although the exact number of lines at any moment varies a bit by how many are working today. We were full up this shift. Last week we were short
a few people, and about half of day shift had the flu.
09:19:24 Devastator: It's easiser work than treeplanting, though.
09:21:14 Devastator: one box of say, 360 trees, (small ones), might take someone
a bit under two hours to plant.
09:21:36 Devastator: when I'm boxing, I might fill one of those every minute.
09:21:54 Devastator: (usually there's one boxer per two lines.)
09:22:40 syv: So whoever's buying is hiring
a LOT more workers.
09:23:38 Devastator: There's maybe twelve, fifteen or so facilities like the one I'm in in the province. Most are
a bit smaller, this is one of the bigger ones.
09:23:51 Devastator: They'll hire about 4000 planters in
a season.
09:24:40 Devastator: amd that's
a low estimate.
09:38:12 Devastator: Oh, Sir Elventide updated his Ruby game.
09:38:25 Devastator: Apparently in this group of 200 people there is not even one interested in gathering information about the enemy.
09:40:30 Devastator: I definately picked the right target to play wrongly.
09:41:50 syv: I have as of yet heard nothing positive about that game.
09:42:08 Devastator: Some of that is the point of view.
09:42:09 syv: Normally the fact that it's not dead yet would be
a positive, but in light of the above, it isn't either.
09:43:00 Devastator: Remember, in this case I'm demonstrating how to play
a game wrongly and outperform others.
09:44:21 Devastator: I'm sure you've heard me make a statement that demonstrates
a completely different point of view, or me do something that looks in retrospect as something that should have been obvious, right?
09:44:30 Devastator: In this game I do that every turn.
09:45:18 syv: Yes. Because everything about that game is distilled horrible.
09:45:33 Devastator: We deeply enjoyed Starcrash.
09:48:16 Devastator: It was tailor made for
ER movie night.
09:48:24 Devastator: There was an amp user who solved all the problems.
09:49:00 Devastator: It featured an exploding planet, which was solved by the Galactic Emperor ordering his imperial battleship to halt the flow of time.
09:49:53 Devastator: I shall never see a movie like it again. It was
a terrible movie.
09:50:01 Devastator: but it had everything that could be wanted.
09:53:21 Devastator: The audio was lost. The only english version was the version dubbed into french and re-dubbed into english.
09:56:44 Devastator: Yeah, from any objective standpoint it was
a terrible, terrible movie.
09:56:50 Devastator: But for
ER movie night, it was perfect.
10:00:01 Devastator: It's like that came right out of Nyar's bag.
10:01:03 Devastator: I figured he had
a bag full of the boxes.
10:03:03 syv: I always visualized a bunch of boxes sitting on a pallet, one of which was
a crate full of smaller marked boxes.
10:03:54 Devastator: Ahh. I figured that he had a bag slung over his shoulder and he was selling them like they fell out of
a truck.
10:04:13 Devastator: Bigger ones would be essentially on tailgates.
10:08:30 Devastator: Maybe pallets are for the medium-sized ones.
10:08:36 Devastator: How's your new game?
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10:25:38 Devastator: anyway, thanks for coming by.
10:25:47 Devastator: I've got to think up what to do in that ruby game.
10:32:41 syv: Not gonna be able to help you there.
10:35:19 Devastator: That's okay. I'm currenty discussing taking advantage of not being able to deal damage by taking weapon modifiers that force me to deal damage.. something that would be crippling for anyone else.
10:35:26 Devastator: me to not deal damage.
10:36:33 syv: ...Where does the advantage come in?
10:36:54 syv: Being able to not deal damage twice over isn't helpful in and of itself.
10:37:02 Devastator: Basically, since the weapon doesn't deal damage upon
a successful attack, it does something else instead.
10:44:43 Devastator: Dunno. Depends on what we're fighting.
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10:54:22 syv: Probably. Haven't sleep on
a consistent schedule for... five? Six days?
10:54:45 syv: Don't feel sleepy at all, just that wonderful middle state of malaise where I just... blah.
10:59:31 Devastator: "Trump fires racist asshat because racist asshat has morals."
10:59:47 Devastator: Well, that was yesterday.
11:00:14 syv: Yeah, think I heard about it. Some dude whose name was repeated
a bunch, but which I still forgot.
11:00:53 syv: I get most of the details of Trump's doings from *someone* within
a day or so of it happening, if not within hours, but tend to filter most of it out.
11:02:48 syv: I was browsing
a mall ninja magazine earlier. They were selling multiple different types of commemorative Trump coins. Some supposedly gold-plated. He looked appropriately smug.
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11:07:23 syv: My internet is acting how I feel...
11:20:21 Devastator: I didn't get that impression.
11:22:59 syv: Seems much more bouncy than usual, to me. Plus I have horrible (virtually zero) download speed.
11:27:01 Devastator: well, anything but IRC would be useless than.
11:29:20 syv: Pretty much, yes. Forums are slow, and periodically nonfunctional. Not downloading anything, no videos, even comics are irritatingly slow to load. And this is with *cellular*. The satellite is basically dead, and has been for awhile.
11:29:49 syv: It's not really *that* much of
a hindrance, since most of my leisure stuff is offline, but it's still annoying.
11:37:52 Devastator: Well, could use some input now.
11:38:03 Devastator: Can you define the term "Ingenuity" for me?
11:40:10 syv: Google says "the quality of being clever, original, and inventive."
12:12:22 Devastator: It is funny just how badly Elventide wants me to get something, anything, that makes me play conventionally.
12:13:03 Devastator: "I'll even give it base damage so you can actually do damage.."
12:13:48 Devastator: You gave me a battlefield with several hundred combatants. Is it so hard to imagine something that deals area debuffs to be far better than to be just another guy with
a worse-than-average weapon?
12:14:25 Devastator: And if I had
a worse-than-average weapon, I'd never find the time to make the thing that does area debuffs.
12:15:13 Devastator: My only disappointment is that, sadly, it does look like
a weapon is the appropriate solution here.
12:24:35 syv: Elventide doesn't sound like the sort of GM that wants his players to do more than sit by and be awarded victory.
12:29:27 Devastator: Well, it's more you have infinite lives so I can kill some of you off messily, but you'll easily cruise to victory due to the incredible wall of buffs available just by looking.
12:33:44 syv: Not only does he not want people to have to strive for victory, he wants it to feel like
a meat grinder too?
12:35:33 Devastator: It's more death being cosmetic.
12:39:23 Devastator: Ahh, giving orders to roll resistance against any friendly buffs.
12:39:59 Devastator: (Every turn not dead is one turn longer before I can make the item I need.)
12:41:41 syv: We actually managed to fail in
ER, though. Death during a mission meant you couldn't do anything more during
a mission. Occasionally, death was permanent. Death in
ER was low-impact, not cosmetic.
12:42:03 syv: Why don't you just shoot yourself in the head?
12:43:29 Devastator: I don't have
a weapon.
12:43:45 Devastator: Besides, according to RAW, I am incapable of killing myself.
12:45:26 Devastator: I think in
ER it was what, one in six to successfully suicide by shooting yourself in the head?
12:45:45 Devastator: one in 36 to suicide by running into gunfire while naked?
12:46:19 Devastator: Nah, worse than one in six. one in six for the fatal hit to kill you, and less than perfect odds to not botch firing the weapon.
12:48:07 Devastator: The only way I'd be able to kill myself in AVA is via environment. Jump off
a building or something.
12:49:04 Devastator: At least there's no follow up roll to see if I actually die.
12:50:34 syv: Successful *intentional* suicide was 50/50. Accidental suicide was at worst 50/50, at best never, depending on skill. Think you had to have negative skill to accidentally kill yourself, but it still happened
a couple times. Permadeaths even.
12:51:28 Devastator: does the 50/50 include the odds of escaping intentional revival?
12:52:17 syv: Doing something stupid and dying for it was something like 50/50 on getting hit, then an end roll to see how bad, and a limb roll to see what got destroyed. Permadeaths needed
a 1 (head) on the last, though I think
PW sometimes killed people for critfail end rolls? It's been
a looong time, and he's never been terribly consistent;
12:53:11 syv: The getting hit part in particular was extremely variable depending on situation. Some enemies autohit, others got way less than even those chances.
12:53:41 syv: There were also
a few enemies which didn't do limb targeting, they just destroyed everything instantly.
12:54:11 Devastator: Yeah. And still didn't kill, even on ones.
12:54:29 syv: Oh, no, we had
a few full body destruction permadeaths.
12:55:12 syv: Permadeaths were rare, had an overally rate around 17% IIRC. Tempdeaths were much less rare, especially among newbies, and temp deaths were NOT cosmetic.
12:55:46 syv: Not being allowed to affect anything in any way, even to a cosmetic degree, for fifteen game updates, is far beyond
a cosmetic penalty, even if the chsr is revived later.
12:55:58 syv: Well, yes, but you're Special.
12:56:45 Devastator: fifteen updates? Pikers.
12:57:56 Devastator: Nah, there was the mission off for a bit, then they were cosmetic for the longest time, and then the end came shortly after they weren't cosmetic for
a period. At least that's how I remember it.
12:59:02 Devastator: You've asked me about that term before.
12:59:34 syv: Can you tell me of a single case where a character was killed by lethal trauma on
a mission, and then continued to take actions which affected the mission? Xan doesn't count, even if he actually did that, because Xan was unique.
12:59:44 syv: I don't recall your answer.
13:02:00 Devastator: Leng did it twice. I could have done it once but intentionally sat it out.
13:02:19 syv: When did Leng do it, and how did she do it?
13:02:39 Devastator: A o Hep. Blew herself up with an amp, showed up in
a nice new free body later that same mission.
13:02:56 Devastator: Did it
a second time on that same mission at the end.
13:03:18 Devastator:
PW had fast revives on there because that mission failing might have actually caused issues.
13:03:34 syv: Eh, fair enough. I don't recall this happening, but it's entirely believable.
13:04:04 syv: Still, even if deaths were cosmetic during the attack on Heph, they weren't cosmetic for the game as
a whole.
13:04:30 Devastator: I'd have difficulty calling just missing
a few turns being anything but cosmetic.
13:04:32 syv: Also, people dying on that mission wouldn't have lost it, we had way too many immortal vets to lose.
13:05:00 Devastator: Well, you were seal clubbing, but
a loss still might have caused issues.
13:05:19 Devastator: even if it wasn't going to happen.
13:05:38 syv: Yes, but a loss wasn't really possible. Miyamoto accidentally chopped
a skyscraper in half. And he wasn't even trying.
13:05:48 syv: He could've chopped
a city in half.
13:06:12 Devastator: Eh, indistinguishable from any newbie with
a 5 token amp.
13:06:29 syv: The Amp Spec might've been
a danger, but then the AM would've just roflstomped it if nobody else could be justified as beating it;
PW outright admitted that the AS was
a mistake.
13:06:32 Devastator: although, admittedly, they would have had to send orders to do that.
13:06:52 Devastator: AS suffered from enemies always going last. Never would have gotten close.
13:07:10 syv: No, no newbie with a 5 token amp could have chopped a city in half. They could have *nuked*
a city, but would have also permadied in the process.
13:07:32 Devastator: Not after the free one ups.
13:07:38 Devastator: but before then, sure.
13:07:47 syv: AS suffered from being downright invulnerable to anything but 5s on space magic, and then still being highly resilient. It was impossible to shoot it.
13:08:29 Devastator: That sounds tough. Who did it permakill?
13:08:54 Devastator: Grate permakilled himself, though.
13:09:11 syv: But yeah,
Piecewise felt that it was too powerful, so he had Jim go DBZ before it could really fight.
13:09:24 syv: This was his first permadeath.
13:09:36 syv: He gained quantum immortality after that.
13:09:50 Devastator: That doesn't count as
a permadeath then.
13:10:04 Devastator: You know my rule about that... it's not
a permadeath if you send in orders afterwards.
13:10:39 syv: And
PW also outright admitted that it was entirely stupid for the AS to behave as it did, and that it was only fighting directly because that was "fair". He pointed out that if he played it correctly, it would just randomly permakill people with no save, but that he couldn't do that because he felt it was too rough.
13:11:23 syv: It was a permadeath because he only revoked it later, as
a spur of the moment joke.
13:11:25 Devastator: Well, same applied for everyone, really.
13:11:41 Devastator: 'revoked it later'. So it didn't stick?
13:11:55 Devastator: Something that gets revoked later isn't really permanent.
13:12:24 syv: here's a thing, though. Saint died in the first round of the boarding mission, and didn't get to affect ANYTHING on the boarding mission. At all. It was a fairly short mission, but it wasn't
a cosmetic death.
13:12:25 Devastator: No reason Steve couldn't have just conquered the galaxy without player input, for that matter.
13:13:21 syv: And during the boarding mission, we had a ship with three people on it permadie. One of them was May, who was
a well-liked character. The other two were entirely forgettable, but also permadied. Not cosmetic.
13:13:27 Devastator: Dunno.
A few turns out is pretty cosmetic for death.
13:13:33 Devastator: Yeah, those were actual deaths.
13:14:10 syv: "You don't get to play the game for the next month and
a half" is never cosmetic,
Dev.
13:14:44 syv: Would you say that if I delay PS for an entire month again that it's just cosmetic, and nobody would care?
13:14:59 Devastator: Should I care? You do that all the time..
13:15:18 Devastator: I don't want to start holding grudges over a month and
a half.
13:15:42 syv: I'd like to think that people enjoy it more when it actually updates. Maybe I'm wrong though, you'd know better than me.
13:16:04 Devastator: I do enjoy it more, but there's no point in getting mad over
a delay that short. They happen.
13:17:02 syv: Point is, it actually matters and affects things somewhat. It's not just cosmetic--meaningless beyond personal taste.
13:17:38 Devastator: That might mean more if I thought people sending in orders actually affected things.
13:19:16 syv: It affects flavortext, and the personal story of their character. In 888th, we were all pretty much bound to win every mission. Simon stealing a tank didn't really change that. But, I enjoyed it, because it was more flavorful than Simon just following long and shooting
a couple dudes.
13:19:50 Devastator: Yeah. And I'm not in 888th.
13:19:59 syv: I would've been annoyed and enjoyed it much less if Simon wasn't allowed to take any action at all, even if that wouldn't have affected the outcome of the mission.
13:20:02 Devastator: for, among others, that very reason.
13:21:05 Devastator: Which I never should have played.
13:21:25 syv: It doesn't apply to the RWBY academy game, where you a) Cannot deviate from the plan and steal
a tank, and b) cannot be knocked out and fail to participate in the mission.
13:21:58 Devastator: Well, that's what the GM thought to be the case..
13:22:54 syv: In 888th, you can deviate and have fun flavor, and you can die and not get to play because of it. The mission will be won, regardless, but the adventure before that can be different, or dead. In RWBY academy, it's bound to the same thing from the start, and you don't get to change it at all, even in minor ways. At least from what you've said.
13:23:11 Devastator: That was the GM's idea,
syv.
13:23:29 Devastator: I have bent it, quite noticably, twice already.
13:23:40 Devastator: Never ever would have had
a chance like that in
ER, and possibly 888th.
13:24:00 syv: So Xan didn't bend the rules of
ER at all?
13:24:08 Devastator: Xan didn't bend
ER one bit.
13:24:22 Devastator: He played with the rules, but didn't change things in the least.
13:24:36 syv: Are you changing things in AVA at all?
13:24:49 Devastator: I've done so noticeably twice.
13:25:00 syv: Are you making people fail things the GM meant to be gauranteed?
13:25:40 Devastator: Yes, actually. Twice.
13:25:54 syv: What things did they fail?
13:28:16 Devastator: First one I set large amount of stuff on fire, forcing the GM to properly implement security in some insecure areas, and second one I forced a super-powerful GMPC to botch
a sense check during her infallable introduction.
13:29:25 syv: So you increased security in the base that's infalliably secure by GM fiat, and you embarrassed an NPC that's an embarrassment to themselves just by existing. Dear me, I am so impressed with your place in that world.
13:30:26 Devastator: It's more the opposite,
syv. The players are supposed to be able to get away with doing anything on the base, for sophomoric stunts, pranks, and bullying.
13:31:26 syv: And now they can still get away with all those stunts, it's just that the flavor says it's harder to do so, even though it isn't actually.
13:31:52 Devastator: Maybe. But if that happens I'll keep it up.
13:32:54 Devastator: Second one was pretty much exactly 'thing that was supposed to succeed, fails.'
13:32:54 syv: And it won't matter at all, it'll just be you having fun by cosmetically affecting a world that's on
a railroad track which you'll never derail it from.
13:33:40 Devastator: Perhaps. But there hasn't been that many turns. I'm pretty sure I'll have my chances.
13:33:46 syv: By that logic, Steve was stopped from conquering the UWM, because the capital planet was accidentally destroyed with all but one of its occupants.
13:34:22 Devastator: That's actually
a reasonable statement.
13:34:27 Devastator: he was stopped from conquering it.
13:34:52 syv: ...Huh, it's never struck me before, but suddenly I recall that it's really quite ironic for
ER to have had the main plot derailed by what amounts to
a galaxy-wide manip overload. How appropriate for the HMRC.
13:35:13 Devastator: Or, more accuractly, because someone pushed
a button.
13:35:20 syv: Oh, so players actually affected the world of
ER, by their own actions?
13:35:33 Devastator: Well.. no, not really.
13:35:52 syv:
Piecewise specifically said that he was surprised by that result, and that it was entirely caused by players doing stupid things.
13:36:05 Devastator: so was it deliberate?
13:36:53 syv: It was
a deliberate action on the part of Morul, yes. Kisame was the player, IIRD.
13:37:15 Devastator: Were the results deliberate?
13:37:20 Devastator: Did any planning go into it?
13:37:59 Devastator: It's the difference between being in a world where your actions can shape it, or
a world where things happen to the players.
13:38:27 syv: I fail to see how the world being affected by one's mistakes isn't
a world where one's actions shape it.
13:39:54 Devastator: If it can only be affected by randomness, then it's
a world where stuff just happens.
13:40:45 syv: It's
a game determined by dice, with incomplete information no less. Of course it's largely shaped by randomness. So is the real world.
13:40:58 Devastator: You do have
a fair point, thnough, I haven't changed the end result of AVA yet.
13:42:24 syv: By the same logic, puzzles are games of chance, because you can't affect their state unless you're lucky enough to think of the solution. Even if you're by some metric smarter and more likely to come up with the solution, that intelligence is sourced from luck; genetic predisposition, upbringing, and environment.
13:43:00 Devastator: Puzzles are predictable, though.
13:43:15 Devastator: Move B in State
A leads to Result C.
13:43:16 syv: Only id they're intuitive to your sense of logic.
13:43:43 Devastator: Nah, doesn't matter if you don't understand it. Someone randomly shuffling around
a rubic's cube doesn't prevent someone else from solving that same cube.
13:44:01 syv: The situation Morul found himself in had two choices, one of which was intuitively terrible to me, but which he took, and which resulted in bad things of a similsr nature to what I expected--though on
a grander scale.
13:44:19 Devastator: Good result, surely.
13:44:47 syv: He made
a choice, which if he'd been cleverer, would've clearly resulted in what it resulted in. Therefore he had the agency to affect the world.
13:45:15 Devastator: So he was deliberately offered that choice?
13:46:01 syv: He could have also made the choice to not affect the world, or could have realized the world would be affected, and chosen to make that choice *because* of that fact. Though he'd've had to have been you to do that.
13:46:33 Devastator: It's me, I'd have found
a third thing nobody saw.
13:46:34 syv: ...Yes. Your use of "deliberately" puts me off, but yes, he clearly had
a choice.
13:46:49 Devastator: ..then maybe it was just more rails.
13:47:07 syv: No, you'd probably have failed and affected nothing. We're talking about
ER, remember.
13:47:39 syv: The rails wouldn't inevitably result in what they did result in, though.
13:47:56 Devastator: I don't know. Seems like what happened was inevitable, it was only
a matter of timing.
13:48:20 syv: Seems that way, but only because you're
a goblin who can't imagine being wrong.
13:48:46 Devastator: Do you mean twinning the lurker or the inevitable infection of space magic with lurker?
13:49:05 Devastator: Because the first was probably truly unexpected but did little. The second was inevitable, but only
a matter of timing.
13:49:14 syv: Neither. The accidental infection of space magic by the lurker.
13:49:35 Devastator: Yeah. I propose that would have happened inevitably.
13:49:40 syv: The twinning was hilarious, but was the fault of... Nunzillor? Or maybe someone else? I think it was Nun.
13:50:10 syv: Also, I advance this argument to the natural next step and propose that you are stupid.
13:50:18 Devastator: Just too much of it out there to avoid happening.
13:50:35 syv: The Lurker was heavily localized, actually.
13:50:46 Devastator: While being everywhere, it was also heavily localized.
13:51:36 Devastator: I thought the big threat of it was that it couldn't be fully localized.
13:51:54 syv: It was only everywhere after it possessed Morul and, by extension, his Origin-fueled Amp, which was intrinsicially tied to Origin, the soul of the local reality.
13:52:14 Devastator: So why was it such
a threat before that, then?
13:52:54 syv: The Lurker was an external entity to the universe, and was incomprehensibly vast like any good eldritch god, but in
ER's local reality was contained within
a small town-sized cyst. Until it infected Morul, and then Origin.
13:53:08 Devastator: Good job on sending you guys there, then.
13:53:21 syv: It literally wasn't
a threat. Nik wanted to stick his dick in something occult, and begged
Piecewise to give him such
a mission.
13:53:45 Devastator: If it wasn't
a threat, then why the hell did Steve need to enslave the universe?
13:54:15 syv: Hilariously, the only reason Morul dove into the lurker and got possessed was because Nik decided to dive in first, and Morul wanted to sacrifice himself to save his idiotic commander. Who, as it happens, had no amp, and would not have gotten Origin infected.
13:54:26 Devastator: Was he actually just
a powerhungry dick like I've been portraying it?
13:54:34 syv: I don't know? The universe enslaving was
a wholly separate thing.
13:54:53 syv: I'm also unsure what it was, but it was still totally separate.
13:55:11 Devastator: It was some plan that was to make him an omnipotent god.
13:55:27 Devastator: So yeah, probably did everyone
a favor by doing that, then.
13:55:34 Devastator: I guess they did derail it.
13:55:48 syv: Oh yeah, that was so he could vaporize the Altered, which had become the Eater of Stars, as the universe's most massive Ghost Ship.
13:55:58 Devastator: Yeah, nothing to worry about, then.
13:56:14 syv: Infecting reality's soul with Cthulhu made that peanuts, though.
13:56:34 Devastator: both peanuts to the risk if the mission succeeded.
13:57:18 Devastator: God, at least people who died before the reality switch get to remain free in this ending.
13:57:25 syv: "We didn't affect the story or universe at all! We just changed the story from one about a benevolent dictator god ruling over trillions of humans on millions of planets, to one about a benevolent dictator AI ruling over millions of humans on
a handful of planets!"
13:57:53 Devastator: well, minus benevolent, trillions, and millions.
13:58:21 syv: Yeah, fair point, we didn't manage to save millions in the end. So it would've only been thousands.
13:58:32 syv: I'm totally correct on the other two, though.
13:58:36 Devastator: Or would have saved trillions before starting it.
13:58:49 Devastator: Just more slaves for the omnigod.
13:59:18 syv: The UWM was an expy of the Imperium, so it had trillions of citizens. And Steve was
a Mary Sue, so he's automatically benevolent and good.
13:59:38 Devastator: Eh,
PW said he was evil.
13:59:40 syv: Sure, in a reasonable reality, he wouldn't have been benevolent, but it wasn't
a reasonable reality.
13:59:55 Devastator: Yeah, we were talking about it after the fact.
13:59:58 syv: Weird that you'd admit something like that.
14:00:02 Devastator: both he and the doc were evil.
14:00:21 syv: The plot was better than I expected. Why are you unhappy, again?
14:00:22 Devastator: Dunno if he intended that or just said it so I wouldn't argue.
14:00:30 Devastator: Because the game didn't have room for me.
14:00:34 syv: ...Probably the latter, honestly.
14:00:56 Devastator: Yeah. The part I can't get around is that if they were good, why did they choose the most evil method of doing everything?
14:02:04 Devastator: Still no room for me.
14:02:36 syv: Recall that
ER was
a story evolved from an RTD about idiots in space, so everything developed later had to justify the start.
14:03:07 syv: Yeah, yeah, all the pity for poor
Devastator, He who is Too Annoying to Play.
14:03:30 Devastator: But yeah, I felt I couldn't do anything.
14:04:23 Devastator: Wasn't prepared to watch the universe descend into omniversal slavery under
a diety.
14:05:03 Devastator: So I sent instructions to die trying, and failed that for various stupid reasons.
14:05:17 syv: The funny thing is, I completely agreed with you about the nature of the story, and yet I decided to play
a sociopath who was totally fine with the truth of things.
14:05:47 Devastator: I signed up while the mission was running that changed the plot.
14:06:02 Devastator: Would have been fine had the twist not been coming..
14:06:32 syv: Or... wait, which one are you saying changed the plot?
14:06:54 syv: I just know we joined very close to each other.
14:06:57 Devastator: "Hey, welcome brothers. Guess what? You're now all guilty of genociding a planet. Welcome to the rebellion! The next mission is an armed landing where we take over
a factory world by force. Don't back out now!
14:07:17 Devastator: I joined
a week after the desert planet started.
14:07:30 syv: Ah, okay, I was one mission behind you then. I joined just as the liberation was wrapping up.
14:07:53 Devastator: That word isn't right.
14:08:10 Devastator: but not liberation.
14:08:19 Devastator: The planet was never returned to
a former owner.
14:09:24 Devastator: At the very least, you need to have some place conquered twice for it to be
a liberation.
14:09:42 Devastator: If it's just conquered once, then it's conquest.
14:09:46 syv: Third dictionary definition of "Liberation": 3 : to take or take over illegally or unjustly
14:09:57 Devastator: Who added that one?
14:10:09 Devastator: That's not what the word means at all.
14:10:25 syv: Merriam-Webster. "Since 1828!"
14:10:53 Devastator: Well, there's probably been people lying about liberating something since 1828.
14:11:04 Devastator: but if you're allowed to lie about something to make the word mean the opposite, we're doomed.
14:11:14 syv: To be fair, it's actually the third definition of "Liberate", but close enough.
14:11:41 syv: I mean that IS how words have been used since they were invented.
14:12:00 Devastator: If the first definition is the antonym of the third definition..
14:12:27 Devastator: Then the word doesn't mean both.
14:12:28 syv: The moment someone realized that they could say something opposite of the truth to get a beneficial response, lying was born, and you can't convince me that such
a realization came long after language.
14:12:45 Devastator: Lying predates language.
14:13:26 syv: Bam, therefore this meaning is even more true to human nature than the "true" meaning you're arguing for.
14:13:38 syv: Lying is clearly more natural than telling the truth using language.
14:13:56 syv: Also: "1 : to set at liberty : free specifically : to free (something, such as a country) from domination by
a foreign power"
14:14:19 syv: Which is also totally correct here, since we freed Heph from
a foreign power, namely the UWM.
14:14:35 Devastator: The UWM wasn't foreign, it settled Heph.
14:15:26 syv: "Foreign : 2 : born in, belonging to, or characteristic of some place or country other than the one under consideration "
14:15:48 Devastator: Yeah. There wasn't anyone or anything on Heph outside of the UWM, unless you glassed the place.
14:15:52 syv: Virtually all the workers on Heph were indebts who were shipped there from other places.
14:15:58 Devastator: I mean, if you want to call genocide freeing the planet of UWM occupation..
14:16:09 syv: I'm certain those who ruled Heph weren't born there, either.
14:16:21 syv: We also didn't genocide the workers, so there's that.
14:16:24 Devastator: I think you added 'indebts' there. There were people shipped there, but no evidence they were indebts.
14:16:31 syv: We didn't kill all of them, either.
14:16:39 Devastator: You got most of them.
14:16:40 syv: It was specifically stated!
14:16:48 Devastator: Then Grate got the vast majority of those left.
14:16:54 Devastator: And then you enslaved the remainder.
14:17:08 syv: Most all of Heph's workforce were indentured servants who had to work there for some years to pay for transport off the planet.
14:17:32 Devastator: And under steve they were...?
14:17:49 Devastator: The same but not paid and incapable of leaving?
14:17:59 syv: Grate only got
a few of the ones near the Sword, there were many others across the planet.
14:18:25 Devastator: Grate got
a lot of them, and the planet was nearly completely automated.
14:18:34 syv: Theyw ere the same, and the admins, who were given free reign over them, totally would have been willing to ship them off to their new homes *immediately*.
14:18:54 Devastator: Yes, if by 'homes' you mean 'more brain cells for Steve.'
14:19:00 syv: ...In fact, I think we may have specifically stated that we'd do that for anyone who didn't want to join. Forgive their debts and all.
14:19:30 Devastator: Nah, nobody got away. You might have seen them leave, but they never checked out, so to speak.
14:19:35 syv: That was never explicitly stated, and likely wouldn't happen because Steve didn't actually include new people in his wetware by the time of
ER.
14:19:51 Devastator:
PW said that as well.
14:19:52 syv: You like to assume it because it makes for
a better plot, but it wasn't true.
14:20:06 Devastator: They might have been allowed to leave after the Lurker infection, because then the war was over.
14:20:07 Devastator: but not before then.
14:20:16 syv:
PW was lying to you to placate you, becuase your constant complaining about his crown achievement makes him unhappy.
14:20:35 Devastator: Right, and
PW wasn't lying to you to make you happy about his crown achievement.
14:20:42 syv: Actually, we'd have prevented them from leaving after the lurker, because then we were the best place by far.
14:20:51 Devastator: So nobody got away, then.
14:21:13 syv: He's never chatted with me about this, I don't think, and he wouldn't make me happy either, because I prefer your interpretation.
14:21:25 Devastator: I doubt
PW lied, though, he did avoid saying something that would have made me happy.
14:21:33 Devastator: In fact, he said the opposite was the case.
14:21:40 syv: I love tragic stories centering around megalomanical sociopaths who kill thousands for stupid reasons, remember
14:22:17 Devastator: That one he said happened, another thing he said didn't happen.
14:22:19 syv: And people did get away, because we shipped them off when they asked. And then they died later because of Maurice, but hey. That's his fault.
14:22:27 Devastator: 'shipped them off', yes.
14:22:48 syv: To their families, yes. Which they lived short, exciting lives with.
14:22:52 Devastator: Mr. Bones Wild Ride.
14:22:54 Devastator: The ride never ends.
14:23:05 Devastator: Nah, you get on the ship, you get eaten, the PCs feel like they freed some people.
14:23:12 syv: Sure it ends. It ends when they get to their new homes.
14:23:25 Devastator: You want to hear what
PW said didn't happen?
14:23:25 syv: That's what you think. But you're wrong.
14:23:50 Devastator: He said the Doc didn't infect all the extrauniversal evacuees.
14:23:59 syv: You're wrong no matter what he said, because he lied, if him having lied is convenient to me.
14:24:17 Devastator: but nah, there was no escape until the epilogue.
14:24:58 Devastator: I think
PW said he did maybe
a few hundred of them.
14:25:04 syv: There was no escape because the gamr hadn't died yet, and the universe was later deleted.
14:25:20 Devastator: Yeah. At that point there was no reason to eat people.
14:26:12 syv: Well, in any case, thanks for the argument. I feel loads better now. And also sleepy, so I'mma get on that. Bye.
14:26:18 Devastator: He only did that while it mattered, which was until the UWM was accidently nuked, but then you said you didn't let people go later.
14:26:20 syv has quit [Quit: Definitely a psyv.]
20:26:00 ER has joined #einsteinianroulette
20:38:31 ER: I'm not reading all those logs
20:38:53 ER: if you ended up saying anything remotely interesting, please tell me
20:44:37 Devastator: spent fifteen minutes discussing Starcrash.
20:44:45 Devastator: Then
syv was just dead tired but unable to find sleep.
20:45:34 Devastator: Was trying to reach you for CULT discussions.
20:51:58 ER: You know, asking me for money in the form of an unbolded action was
a bit strange. :P
21:19:53 Devastator: Well, what else? I can't issue orders to extract money from you.
21:20:14 zOrro has joined #einsteinianroulette
22:45:57 ER: ofc now all I can think about is games other than nested
22:47:29 ER: maybe I really should try that idea of doing
a one-off RTD weekly on discord.
22:52:19 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
22:53:07 syv: Does anyone else find it disproporitonately upsetting that all instances of "a" are now colored in the pretty logs, due to that letter having been used as
a nickname?
22:54:21 True: Oh god, this was
a bad idea.
22:54:36 False: Does
it work if you don't say anything?
22:55:01 psyv:
yes no and is it true psyv
22:55:45 syv:
Yes has
a pretty flat color, though.
22:56:07 syv: I don't mind the italics, in that case.
22:56:22 ER: the italics are mostly what I notice
22:57:01 ER: So, your internet still pathetic?
22:57:37 syv:
I could stream Deltarune for you while at work, though. Sunday graveyard shift.
22:58:40 ER: ...sure,
I don't *really* need to sleep that night :V
22:58:59 syv:
It'd be
a somewhat irritating stream, probably being something like 50 mins on per hour with ten minute pauses, but that's minor, yeah?
22:59:31 syv: Heh.
I'll only stream for
the first two or three hours, then.
23:00:06 ER: ...Maybe
I should just let you play
it and complain over IRC. :P
23:01:03 syv: Sorry for being stupid
and offering to stream
a thing when
I really should've realized that was impossible.
23:01:35 ER: you don't need to appogize for being stupid~
23:02:45 ER: We're all stupid sometimes, right?
23:04:08 syv: Well,
yes, but my narcissism hates to admit
it.
23:05:22 ER: Well, hit your narcissism with
a heavy stick occasionally because not admitting
it is how you end up being an actual idiot, like
the president.
23:06:23 syv:
And yet, other people have told me
it's idiotic to hit yourself with
a heavy stick. Kinda getting conflicting signals, here. ;P
23:07:10 ER: You need to swing
the stick at yourself
and then dodge.
23:11:21 syv: this
is surprisingly difficult
23:32:02 syv: So what
is Alice doing for the rest of the 888th mission? Just gonna fly away
and leave the mission? Or
is she gonna stay in
the plane until she can HALO onto
a train?
23:32:55 syv:
I think it might be for the best if she kamikaze'd
it into an enemy Nazi tank, jumping out at the last moment to land on
the other
and hijack
it, but that's just me.
23:33:35 ER: what's that? 1/6 chances of not dying for trying that?
23:34:49 syv: No,
no, there would be a lot more rolls. a 2/6 for plane death, probably
a 2/6 or 3/6 for escaping in time,
and then
a pair of 5/6 for
the tank hijacking.
23:35:55 syv: Calculator says you have just under 1% chance of success.
23:37:43 syv: You've got a solid 33% chance of just taking out
a tank and surviving, though!
And think of
the GLORY!
23:38:03 syv: Plus if Alice dies, you can play Bridgette
the melee master instead.
Log file '2018-11-09.log' ends.
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