00:51:19 ER: does it make sense to allow wizard to draw static electricity from the ground in order to shoot electrity at people
01:07:02 Devastator: is the ground carpeted?
01:07:04 Devastator: I mean I can see that.
01:12:20 syv: "Is fire a chemical reaction?" is probably a pretty good litmus test for whether or not I'll like a setting's physics
01:17:17 syv: I'd like to see more settings where the answer is "yes, because when these chemicals are arranged next to each other, it often forms a symbol which pisses off the omniscient spirit of Moghwyn, forming heat."
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01:24:10 syv: "Fluorine is the most powerful oxidant, because it has the atomic symbol F, also short for Fuck"
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01:26:28 ER: the more things which work differently to our world, the harder it will be for anyone to predict what should happen
01:26:35 ER: which goes for both players and GM
01:27:31 Devastator: You can't complain about physics if everything is wrong!
01:27:45 syv: It also allows fun cool stuff
01:28:16 Devastator: I have enough trouble keeping the world working in Extinction.
01:28:51 syv: Like the villain's evil plot could be to make Moghwyn's spouse cheat on him with a Nitrogen elemental, causing him to have such overwhelming animosity for nitrogen that it becomes a stronger oxider than flourine, with naturally apocalyptic effects.
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01:30:43 Devastator: I gotta admit, I never put scenarios like that in the happy fun table of doom.
01:30:50 MJ: And I finnally finished the third book of the witcher series. Only took like 3 months
01:31:08 syv: I'm tired and depressed, as usual. You?
01:31:22 syv: BTW, is fire in mainpiston a chemical reaction?
01:31:53 MJ: And I'm fine enough, just sad it took me 3 months to read 300 pages.
01:32:05 syv: I don't know how to simplify this question further
01:32:45 MJ: not like something weird with beasts?
01:32:56 ER: I guess Lightswitch implies that fire is not a chemical reaction in nyafor. hrm.
01:33:15 MJ: If so so then yes, regular fire is a chemical reaction
01:34:12 MJ: Beast fire is beast bullshit, so it's like chemistry physics and biology but tweaked by a madman in a localized manner
01:35:22 syv: And I guess beast fire sounds like it upgrades Mainpiston to a C from an F
01:35:37 ER: 21:12 <
syv> "Is fire a chemical reaction?" is probably a pretty good litmus test for whether or not I'll like a setting's physics
01:35:38 ER: 21:12 <
syv> "Yes" is a bad sign
01:35:38 ER: 21:17 <
syv> I'd like to see more settings where the answer is "yes, because when these chemicals are arranged next to each other, it often forms a symbol which pisses off the omniscient spirit of Moghwyn, forming heat."
01:36:08 MJ: There is also daemon fire, but that's mostly just daemons being pissy and wanting to have some chaos
01:36:26 MJ: Settting a dameon mech on fire typically causes fun things to occur
01:37:22 syv: No. Maybe after I get to work
01:38:06 syv: (
syv) "Fluorine is the most powerful oxidant, because it has the atomic symbol F, also short for Fuck"
01:38:06 syv: (
syv) It also allows fun cool stuff
01:38:06 syv: (
syv) Like the villain's evil plot could be to make Moghwyn's spouse cheat on him with a Nitrogen elemental, causing him to have such overwhelming animosity for nitrogen that it becomes a stronger oxider than flourine, with naturally apocalyptic effects.
01:38:06 syv: (
syv) The story writes itself
01:38:33 syv: Too bad, we're subjecting you to it regardless
01:39:31 MJ: MP's physics goes from extremly realtistic to free association in direct correlation the how many beasts and daemons are around at any given point in time.
01:40:17 Devastator: That an ok answer,
syv?
01:40:48 syv: I guess that means the amount I like Mainpiston is in direct correlation the how many beasts and daemons are around at any given point in time.
01:42:16 ER: I mean without those it IS just sky WWII
01:42:28 MJ: Which would be fun by itself honestly
01:42:57 ER: every gamer knows that it's fun to shoot the whermacht with a tommy gun
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03:04:24 ER:
syv I think you're a vital part of our team >.<
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05:57:28 Devastator: there's vid of a GMRLS missile bullseying a Grad.
06:15:42 ER: how do I write this mechanic down
06:16:42 ER: alright, so this type of magic needs you to sit down with your book and memorize spells. there are several different schools you can pick from, which each have their own stat attached
06:17:47 ER: when you prepare spells, you can prepare spells from each of your known schools, and the number of spells in each school you can memorize is the same as your skill
06:18:55 ER: so if you have +1 aggression and +2 empathy and know both schools you can prepare 1 attack spell and 2 healing spells
06:22:38 ER: or maybe it should count the skill +1 too, so it would be 2 and 3 spells
06:25:31 Devastator: I think maybe 1 and 2.
06:38:19 syv: I need to play engineer next time we do a round
06:39:15 syv: I have a rocket jump overclock for the grenade launcher, which in addition to letting you rocket jump, gives you 50% more grenades. And a bigger AoE.
06:39:46 syv: As a downside it reduces damage, but it still mostly kills grunts, AND sets them on fire.
06:40:02 syv: But it's just fun to have 20 grenades
06:40:20 syv: With a 9 meter diameter aoe, each
06:41:43 syv: Maybe it should have spell count be double the stst bonus.
06:42:03 syv: A +2 is a pretty significant investment, and only getting two spells isn't much at all.
06:54:32 ER: hey I'll PM you what I have so far and then go sleep
07:00:53 ER: welp now I want to stay and hear your reaction v.v
07:02:41 syv: I'm not going to read it immediately. Sleep, egg.
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07:09:17 Devastator: +2 gives you +2 spells.
08:57:39 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d12: 5 <Total: 5>
08:58:23 Devastator: oh, did a brief Extinction post.
09:19:15 Devastator: Yeah, a better roll there might have helped a bit.
09:19:17 Devastator: but there's options.
09:28:49 syv: Hrm. I got another overclock for the plasma rifle. It recharges ammo when overheating, but increases overheat duration by 30% and reduces total ammo supply by 30%.
09:29:40 syv: The overclocks guide on steam says it makes it so you "almost never need to resupply", and is therefore good for deep dives.
09:30:13 Devastator: how many shots does it take to overheat?
09:30:26 Devastator: and how much ammo does it get back?
09:30:26 syv: Or you can manually overheat at 18
09:31:14 syv: Gives back at most ~70% with a full 45 shot burst, or at minimum ~47% with an early overheat. According to the wiki, anyway.
09:31:52 syv: Which equates to ~40% bonus ammo at worst, or ~130% bonus ammo at best.
09:32:12 syv: And at the cost of not using a different overclock, and spending a lot of time overheating.
09:33:21 Devastator: might be better to just bring extra ammo.
09:34:00 syv: Overheat duration is 3.25s at most, with 45 shots. Don't want to math how long it takes to reach that, but in the one mission I played it felt like it was a little longer than the overheat, so ~4s or so.
09:36:36 syv: It's also kind've a weak gun in general. Even with double ammo, I don't see how that would be "never needing a resupply", especially considering you're turning down other OCs, which can potentially grant 50% boosts.
09:46:49 Devastator: ugh, I probably need to do some solos to unlock weapons and earn resources.
09:47:01 Devastator: and get some overclocks.
09:47:18 syv: Nah, it's time gated unless you really grind for promotions.
09:47:38 syv: You should avoid playing L25 classes and prioritize promotions if you want to be fast though.
09:48:18 syv: I imagine you're in front of Egan and
MJ anyways
09:48:59 Devastator: Yeah, but I've got like four weapon unlock missions and like 10 weapons I don't have overclocks for, and can't afford to upgrade them.
09:49:46 syv: Bought a lot of cosmetics? ;P
09:50:43 Devastator: A fair number, yeah.
09:50:47 Devastator: not an overwhelming number.
09:50:53 Devastator: like 5% of the total.
09:53:12 syv: I wouldn't say it's too necessary. While a few overclocks do sound pretty OP, most seem to be intentionally balanced so they increase your effectiveness by about a third. 20-40% buff, with the higher end adding heavy restrictions to the buff.
09:53:47 syv: That's a significant increase, but you only really need one decent OC on Gunner for the really important stuff.
09:56:16 Devastator: I'd like them for the secondary weapons.
09:56:20 Devastator: but gunner-wise is fine.
09:56:29 Devastator: the other classes are pretty barren that way.
09:57:11 syv: I see it as more longevity for the game for non-scout classes.
09:57:47 syv: On scout, my peak capability is important. I want to be able to carry or save hard missions. So I want the absolute best scout builds.
09:58:22 syv: Engi/gunner? Nah, I'm not good enough with them to carry, I'm just playing them to vary the game up, and OCs just make it play different.
09:58:32 Devastator: I don't think my performance is good enough that peak performance matters.
09:58:48 syv: Nah, it definitely is on gunner.
09:58:54 syv: You clutch situations sometimes.
09:59:12 syv: If you get 10% better on gunner, we'll be able to do missions we'd otherwise fail.
09:59:45 syv: Especially when we're playing without egan.
09:59:48 Devastator: I wish the autocannon wasn't so much better than the minigun.
10:00:07 Devastator: the minigun is just -so- bad in comparison.
10:04:10 Devastator: I think the only thing it's really better at is the rollers.
10:04:16 syv: Seems odd. All the other class's basic weapons seem like they're generally the best. Maybe not driller, I think cryo is considered the best since it debuffs.
10:04:45 Devastator: I think it just suffers 'early weapon syndrome'
10:04:50 Devastator: everything else gets overbuffed.
10:05:56 syv: ...It might feel so much worse because you play with me.
10:06:13 syv: Scout is always best at single targets, and I broadly prioritize them.
10:06:49 syv: The minigun doesn't come with AoE like the autocannon, so of course it's much worse against swarms.
10:07:11 Devastator: It's only marginally better against single targets.
10:07:26 Devastator: I switched to the +25% direct damage bonus from the double-sized magazines.
10:07:47 Devastator: Of course the minigun doesn't get an upgrade like that.
10:07:54 Devastator: its damage upgrades are 10%.
10:09:45 Devastator: they seem like that.
10:09:50 syv: Minigun T2 is 20% damage, T3 is a choice between "20%" (armor break against grunts), stunlocking, and +1 punchthrough.
10:09:50 Devastator: I could be wrong, but the damage is just so low.
10:10:59 syv: T4 can give +15% at full tilt, and T5 is heat mechanics. T1 is cooling/10% RoF/-75% inaccuracy
10:12:32 syv: T1: 13% damage bonus (21% boost to direct, but AoE applies to direct hits)
10:13:15 syv: T2 is accuracy/spinup/36% more RoF (!)
10:15:51 syv: T3 is the same RoF buff / 22% AoE damage (9% overall, but 22% is more accurate for aoe) / 28% direct (17% overall)
10:16:11 syv: T4: 20% from armor break / more aoe range
10:16:39 syv: T5: +10% to all damage when at full tilt / fear / damage resistance at full tilt
10:17:27 Devastator: Yeah, so many damage boosts, plus big AoE, just so much extra damage.
10:17:34 syv: ...Also armor break is 25%, thinking about it. It's *negating* a 20% buff. Or way way more in the case of rollers.
10:17:41 Devastator: and the base numbers are better.
10:19:54 syv: Building for single target, autocannon does 21+9 damage per round, with 5.5/7.5 RoF, whatever that means, and 440 total bullets. Building for longevity reduces you to 18+9 with 660 total.
10:22:00 syv: Minigun is... basically just 12, plus maaaybe heat buildup and +15% damage at full tilt. With 30/34 RoF depending on whether you want accuracy.
10:22:53 syv: 2400 max ammo, with the max ammo upgrade giving you +25% and losing a +20% DPS buff, which sounds awful.
10:24:07 syv: Ah, rof is bullets per second
10:25:07 syv: And it sounds like the minigun just doubles bullet numbers, so I guess the RoF and total ammo are half that?
10:28:13 Devastator: that would make sense.
10:28:15 syv: Well, regardless, it's 165/225 DPS with 13200 total for the AC, or alternatively 149/203 with 17820 total.
10:28:26 Devastator: it doesn't seem to do 300 dps.
10:28:53 syv: Lower DPS numbers are if you choose accuracy over higher fire rate, which seems logical on a single target build.
10:29:00 Devastator: plus AoE for the AC.
10:30:20 syv: 12*15*1.5 = 270 DPS for minigun, with 12*1200 = 14400 total damage.
10:31:06 syv: Assuming taking the accuracy bonus instead of firing 17 rounds per second.
10:31:54 Devastator: plus the first shots miss.
10:31:59 Devastator: plus it overheats if you go too fast.
10:33:12 syv: Huh, overheating is linear, so more RoF doesn't make it overheat faster.
10:36:36 syv: It lasts 9.5 seconds before overheating, but loses the first 0.7s to spinup, so 8.8s. Which is... 2376 single target damage before overheat.
10:37:10 Devastator: if you can get it to the last minute.
10:37:13 Devastator: and what's the cooldown time?
10:37:45 syv: EHP of a Haz 5 Praetorian is 1125, so it can fairly comfortably kill two.
10:38:20 syv: Cooldown time is 10s, which sounds pretty clearly like you're supposed to never let it overheat.
10:43:51 Devastator: but yeah, you can kill two.
10:46:41 syv: Praets have no face armor, and armor actually does nearly nothing if you have AP.
10:47:38 syv: Without AP, grunt armor reduces damage by 20%, and praet armor reduces damage by 100%. With AP, it doesn't apply to the shot which breaks it, and *usually* it breaks in one shot. Depends on breakpoints which almost everything hits given AP.
10:48:25 syv: Though the minigun does have an actual choice in the AP tier. You can take permastun instead of AP, or blowthrough,
10:48:52 syv: AC only has +rad, which isn't what you want on a single target build anyway
10:49:52 Devastator: (No, but it's damn, damn good.)
10:49:59 Devastator: the radius is massive.
10:51:06 syv: Yeah, I think the AC is definitely a better gun overall, because it's really good at swarms and the minigun is only fairly good at single target... and there's better options for single targets. Like a scout with an AMR. :v
10:51:50 syv: Swarms are what you really care about
10:52:02 syv: It kinda makes sense as a starter gun, I guess.
10:52:35 syv: Enemy *count* is a major way they scale difficulty. So starting out, a single-target weapon will be better against spread out enemies.
10:53:09 Devastator: gunner has solid secondaries for doing single target damage.
10:54:06 syv: ...Oddly enough I think of gunner's secondaries as AoE, heh. Mostly because I have a revolver OC which makes it godly for AoE.
10:54:35 Devastator: I've got the random bonus damage OC for the revolver.
10:54:44 Devastator: but I use the BRT mostly.
10:54:51 Devastator: and it's got the massive bonus damage OC.
10:55:20 syv: The minigun has no weakpoint boost, at all.
10:55:49 Devastator: guess I should do more faceshooting then.
10:56:21 syv: Weirdly enough, the only weakpoint boost on a gunner primary... is the missile launcher...?
10:56:29 syv: A really hefty one too, 50%
10:57:32 syv: I guess it's functionally a 25% boost, since half the damage is inevitably AoE.
10:57:40 Devastator: which of course is an AoE weapon.
10:57:47 Devastator: gj with weakpoint bonus on that.
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13:21:23 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
13:21:23 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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14:50:04 ER: autocannon just feels awful for swarms for me
14:51:18 ER: because I point it vaguely in the direction of some grunts and hold LMB and then maybe a few of them die. It's not like they die in one shell or each shell hits them all and I can't choose which grunt to kill even because it's so inaccurate
14:52:24 ER: I use minigun with accuracy and stun and it works quite well for grunts, just sweep their heads. actually being able to hit the particular point I'm aiming at means I can take out grunts quickly one at a time, AND melt any weakpoints on bigger things
14:54:17 ER: you say that autocannon has AoE but it sure feels like the area in question is the floor next to a random one of the three grunts currently in my crosshair which is a fourth of my screen
14:55:55 ER: if you hit a swarm of grunts which are both big enough to not cut down and not far away enough to whittle away at in time, should probably just press G
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21:02:03 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 3d12: 6 12 12 <Total: 30>
21:02:27 Devastator: Ahh, flippin' drama dice.
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