08:37:31 parisbre56[Away] has joined #einsteinianroulette
08:37:31 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
08:37:31 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
10:06:26 syv has joined #einsteinianroulette
10:23:06 Devastator: just watched a fine youtube video.
10:23:23 Devastator: Defunctland's video on the composer of the Disney TV theme.
10:24:04 Devastator: Ended with a very fine revalation about the meaningfulness of art independent of medium.
10:36:33 syv: Don't have time to watch ATM though.
10:36:42 Devastator: Yeah, it's a long one.
10:36:51 Devastator: also updating Extinction.
10:36:57 syv: Woke up late, was rewarded with a bunch of DMs from people griping about the project
10:37:12 syv: "Okay, I'll have free time after doing this setup work"
10:37:29 syv: "Setup work is done, why's there now so much REAL work to do???"
10:40:33 Devastator: because that's how setup work works?
10:48:50 Devastator: Dammit, the drama dice strike again.
10:59:18 syv: Also this team is so fucking unreliable
10:59:31 syv: We've got like... three separate "factions"?
10:59:46 syv: And technically I represent a fourth that's caucusing with another.
10:59:48 Devastator: High-strung elite game fanatics don't work well together!
11:00:07 syv: Weirdly enough, the "elite" players are _best_ at working together
11:00:08 Devastator: The only reason Allegites can get along is because the game is so incredibly team-based.
11:00:25 syv: It's the other groups that argue endlessly with us and eachvother
11:00:53 syv: *biased guy saying his group isn't the issue*
11:01:33 syv: Weirdly enough, the most team based mode in the game, expeditions, is a core problem.
11:01:42 syv: They're basically anime fans and RPers.
11:02:10 syv: Very casual, and *very* aggressive about each of their own views about how things should work, being difficult in the right way or whatever.
11:03:22 Devastator: How many people are we talking about?
11:04:42 syv: Active? Urgh, I dunno, feels like thirtyish right now. In terms of aggressive arguers there's... two that are most of the problem, and then tenish that are bad faith arguers.
11:05:00 syv: The comp side would be way worse, really, if the aggressive ones were even involved.
11:05:31 syv: But the comp players who would just start insulting other people already lost faith in the project and just laugh at it off-server.
11:07:46 syv: Apparently some of the expeditions people are the same. Those groups are apparently quite factional themselves, every little clan of twenty or so tends to keep to themselves and design their own games for a different kind of challenge, with one or a few leaders that basically act as GMs when they play.
11:09:10 syv: That seems to be where their fighting comes from. Their GMs have different design ideas, and they view that as the correct way. Which isn't far off from comp players, who themselves all have our own agreed "fair" ruleset. But we don't have splinter groups. Except racing (the group I sorta represent), which is essentially neutral. We don't play titans, just don't mess with our movement system.
11:09:34 syv: *Each group views their own GMs ruleset as how the game should be designed
11:10:26 Devastator: sounds like entrenched groups!
11:10:45 syv: And we're trying to make a game that satisfies *everyone*.
11:11:15 syv: As well as the true neutral group, the people who just picked up the game and need a tutorial, and then to be gently pushed into the actual game.
11:11:24 syv: That is, like, the really hot warzone.
11:11:50 syv: Because everyone wants the basic initial game experience to be a natural precursor/lead in to their game mode.
11:12:24 syv: Except for racers because we're literally done, I did that last month deciding what maps to include in what order, hah
11:12:49 syv: So now I'm just trying to help this, because racing only survives if the rest of the game survives.
11:13:51 Devastator: need suggestions or just want sympathy?
11:14:13 syv: I'm allied with the comp titan players basically because they support the full movement system, when exped players tend to just straight up ban half the advanced movement techs. They spend hours riding horses. In a game where the only interesting thing is the grapple flight system O-O
11:14:36 syv: If you have suggestions I'm happy to listen
11:15:31 Devastator: Lead-in should be a movement tutorial and then split the game mode for the second game.
11:15:43 Devastator: but that's a perfect world thing.
11:16:34 syv: You're not wrong. Movement tutorial is something we should do sooner than later.
11:16:43 syv: Hell, that literally might help the arguing.
11:17:18 syv: A fair number of the arguments are between people saying "I don't see what the problem is, this is fine design", and then posting videos where they constantly crash.
11:17:31 syv: Which those of us who don't crash view as... unfun design.
11:17:55 syv: Maybe making movement tutorials would make them start to not enjoy crashing o-o
11:19:50 syv: It is mystifying how some of these people have been playing for the better part of a decade, and yet still crash at least once a minute.
11:20:39 syv: And not on technical race stuff, in really open forest areas at what "pro" players who've been doing it for under a year view as slow speeds.
11:21:03 syv: It is just such a huge disconnect, they're playing an entirely separate game
11:21:09 Devastator: And even the most casual player needs to know something about movement.
11:21:56 syv: Not knowing technical jumps and such, the things they ban, I get that. It's something you have to deliberately learn.
11:23:16 syv: Not knowing how to not crash into trees in a thin forest design... that's... basically the simplest thing in the game. You go in a circle around a tree, and line yourself up to *not* hit the next tree.
11:23:32 syv: Which is super permissive.
11:23:39 Devastator: anyway, the update should be somewhat relaxing.
11:27:23 syv: Is that a cremated dragon?
11:27:46 syv: We already knew the concordat was around back then, though it's a little surprising their soldiers look the same.
11:28:49 syv: This is like finding out the soldiers who fought the Etruscans still look about the same today.
11:31:50 Devastator: It's the special wand-type weapons.
11:32:06 Devastator: You've seen them in memories and nobody else seems to have them.
11:33:59 syv: So they're the tech the Concordat brought from off world.
11:34:35 Devastator: Do I mention the weapons?
11:35:35 syv: "To see a floor mosaic of a soldier of the Concordat. Medium armour, and one of their long magic wands, which you have seen more than once. "
11:35:54 syv: I hadn't realized the significance of them not being used by others.
11:36:12 syv: ...Was Alice a Perilous soldier, or a Concordat soldier?
11:36:38 syv: I know the concordat were her gods, but I figure both groups prolly worship them. Just one is officially the church.
11:43:24 Devastator: I'll have her talk about the wands if someone asks.
11:47:14 Devastator: all the explicit Paladins are concordat.
11:49:44 Devastator: Do note that it's also a term for role, not just class.
11:49:50 Devastator: there are some "Paladins" who aren't Paladins.
11:52:19 Devastator: Amd yeah, cremated dragon.
11:52:29 Devastator: as for which kind, well..
11:55:08 syv: Dragons being extinct is sad, but them being extinct *except* for Trence is even more sad v.v
12:00:21 Devastator: you want the answer?
12:18:49 syv: Is it going to be answered within a few updates? Then yes.
12:20:05 Devastator: Yeah, it'll be answered literally next update.
12:20:13 Devastator: which will be images from the history of the dragon.
12:20:40 Devastator: This dragon isn't a traitor, but the church was built in an attempt to hide dragon relics in something the Concordat wouldn't want to destroy.
12:20:56 Devastator: It was interred by people who knew the dragon personally.
12:21:30 Devastator: There is indeed a traitor dragon, but I'll say no more about that.
12:36:45 syv: That's interesting. Not surprising.
12:36:54 syv: Hopefully we'll get lore on that.
12:37:16 syv: Apparently Russia dropped a bomb on one of their own cities.
12:38:49 syv: They owned up to it, too. Couldn't blame it on Ukraine, because then it seems like they aren't winning, I guess.
12:39:25 syv: Though thinking about that blog's essays on terror bombing... maybe they need to start terror bombing their own cities, to improve morale and public support for the war.
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18:45:17 ER: I guess it's not surprising that fans of AoT would be toxic
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