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03:06:13 Devastator: I should do extinction.
03:21:16 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d10: 10 <Total: 10>
03:25:33 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 8d6: 3 6 3 5 5 5 4 3 <Total: 34>
03:25:52 Devastator: Alice, Willis, Alice, Sessha, Sessha, Sessha, Alice, Alice.
03:30:37 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 4d8: 6 2 4 6 <Total: 18>
03:30:59 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d8: 4 <Total: 4(+1) = 5>
03:31:05 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 3d8: 5 7 4 <Total: 16>
03:32:48 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d12: 5 <Total: 5>
03:32:58 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 3d6: 3 6 6 <Total: 15>
03:33:09 Devastator: Alice, Willis, Willis.
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03:33:29 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 4d10: 2 5 2 8 <Total: 17(+6) = 23>
03:34:01 Devastator: Alice takes 11, Willis takes 9+9 for 18.
04:12:05 ER: not sure how it's resistances work but cold and zap was recommended
04:12:37 ER: it seems to be tanking pretty well, maybe we should drink mana and ABSOLUTE ZERO! it
04:12:42 sy: "I think you want to use cold or lightning against it. It looks old, so it's cold and not fire."
04:12:53 Devastator: Resistances are triple, +50%, 0, 2/3 taken, 1/3 taken, 0, -100%.
04:13:11 Devastator: second zero is 'immune'
04:13:30 sy: It doesn't deal that much damage, outside possible skills
04:13:38 sy: And we have a LOT of healing.
04:14:24 sy: We can just keep hitting it with more focus
04:14:42 sy: Pity we can't use counter though
04:15:01 Devastator: It'd do bonus damage, yeah.
04:36:04 sy: This new firefox Windows update makes private tabs have black coloring (before they were same as normal windows), and also makes private tabs occupy a different tile on the taskbar.
04:36:41 sy: I'm not sure how to feel about it.
04:36:56 sy: ...Which probably means it's an improvement. If it were actually worse or neutral, I'd immediately hate it for changing things.
04:38:23 ER: they changed it so it's bad
04:47:11 sy: Huh, neat. Macrophages in salamanders are required for them to regenerate limbs.
04:47:50 sy:
MJ says that depicting macrophages as omnidisciplinary maids is really just the best metaphore he can think of
04:53:05 Devastator: that show is good at metaphors.
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06:13:02 sy: Comparing Alice's abilities, mace seems very strong.
06:13:59 sy: Lance gives her a bonus + on attacks, a 5+ exhaust attack, and a free hitgroup
06:14:36 sy: Which is good, yes. It's our strongest hitgroup outside Willis/Dragonbreath, which are both expensive.
06:17:02 sy: The exhaust attack, drill charge, is decent too. It's very hard hitting, but only usable every third turn. It's good if she's more focusing on magic--and importantly, does NOT need to use SoV. So Lance works well when she's being a healer and we're not in a desperate situation.
06:20:13 sy: Mace OTOH has a good debuff attack, which synergizes with the rest of the party much of the time. We don't have any focus casters. Smash!, the 4+ tiring singlehit is weaker than drill charge, which is 5+, but it has only one turn of cooldown. And she can also use brilliant smash, which seems like a useful thing to have in our back pocket. Absolute defense ignore? That sounds *very* nice.
06:21:00 sy: I question why drill charge is exhausting in the first place
06:21:42 sy: It's identical to the standard power attack everyone can get, but is tiring for twice as long.
06:23:27 sy: I'd expect to be able to get an exhausting mace move which does the same damage as drill charge, honestly
06:23:57 Devastator: Well, gotta remember skills.
06:24:35 sy: Was actually just about to write down skill training ideas, heh
06:29:33 sy: When fighting adventurers like the four swords, hitgroup hits all four, right?
06:32:07 Devastator: Do note, if you play split up shenanigans I'll do the same.
06:33:20 sy: Was actually thinking that something like Trence's double slash could be nice on Sessha. But the enemy we want to prep for is 4S, and spreading poison to four people is much more valuable than doubling on one. Probably. I assume we'll have some way to counter Spar.
06:34:23 Devastator: That'll be your job to figure out.
06:34:36 Devastator: although it's strongly, strongly recommended to figure out how her sword works first.
06:35:00 sy: Yes yes we'll visit the plot city
06:35:09 sy: After we launch the satellite
06:35:27 sy: Grab a dragon or two if it's convenient, training, then plot city.
06:35:35 Devastator: got most of the list worked out for Irony.
06:35:46 Devastator: Also, the end of act III location -isn't- Valterre.
06:36:16 sy: I'd... expect it to be Perilous
06:37:32 Devastator: That's the end of act IV location.
06:38:45 sy: So there's a location we can hit which just force-ends Act III?
06:41:24 Devastator: It's predictable, if you know enough about my source materials. ;-p
06:41:39 sy: Also, unrelated, thinking about advancement investments. More skills and such. There's the appealling thought of finding Willis a +19 mana cap accessory, and haste boots, then having him spam Meteor Strike! twice every turn. While someone constantly pours mana potions down his throat.
06:41:50 sy: It's silly and not a practical or wise idea
06:42:05 sy: But dual wield machine-gunning meteors, come on
06:42:22 Devastator: what'd I quote for the mana bonuses?
06:42:32 sy: I think there was a +15 one as the high end.
06:44:29 sy: Still not high enough to triple cast anything
06:44:38 Devastator: even if you double up?
06:45:02 sy: Uhh, hadn't considered that. That sounds foolish honestly.
06:45:54 sy: Triple casts of AZ/Fireworks, then. Double of Tsunami or Meteor.
06:46:46 sy: That's an expected cost of 6 upgrades and two quests, which I'd expect to mean 10 or 12 upgrades if we didn't do quests
06:47:01 Devastator: Plus you need to find someone.
06:47:06 sy: It'd honestly really justify making Willis a staff user though.
06:47:20 Devastator: specific high-end accessories are.
06:48:09 sy: Three AZs costs 66, which would leave him with 11 mana. Enough for a heal or utility spell, which I'd like to give him on principle.
06:48:54 Devastator: He's pretty bad at healing, so expect a higher cost than the other people.
06:49:37 sy: Can we find out the costs *without* learning? Or do we only know once he's done?
06:51:49 Devastator: no, gotta learn them.
06:52:04 Devastator: Trence can do healing.
06:52:09 sy: Well then, I guess we'll buy a basic heal for both of them.
06:52:19 sy: Just having the option is simply too strong
06:52:47 sy: "X is going to die if not healed! But our healer *also* has this really useful thing they could do..."
06:53:05 sy: If it only costs one upgrade, I think it's just prudent
06:53:41 sy: Funny, last time, when we had only one healer, I said the exact opposite.
06:54:26 sy: I need to start writing down dragon form bonuses
06:55:16 Devastator: You want the list right now?
06:55:58 sy: That way it's searchable on any device
06:57:54 sy: I also just want to put magic on Trence once we can be free with money, so we can see how it works out with magic dragon. When we get that.
06:59:25 sy: Questionable what element to choose for magic. I'm halfway between going with something we have no elemental attack for on anyone else or on dragon, or specifically doing water because Willis' water attack is hitall and we'll never get another water spell for him.
07:00:01 sy: Depending on how long we wander, I'd expect to fill out the elemental dragon list, as well as Willis' spell selection.
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07:03:45 syv: ...I should change my first post in the thread to an information repository/questlog
07:04:28 syv: A significant question in the future will be who should have hasteboots, and who should have battle aura.
07:04:56 syv: Trence seems like a likely choice for haste boots. Dragon form is very good.
07:06:14 syv: Willis has been great with it, since it has let us avoid upgrading his weapons, saving money.
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07:07:32 Devastator: If you have a good repositiory, I'd be glad to link it in the OP.
07:09:00 sy: But once we actually have enough cash to have everyone at +5, and train people to have more disciplines, it's more debatable. Willis has A LOT of power, and that goes up a lot with mana potion spam. In a high stakes fight, him and Trence are top tier.
07:09:50 syv: And importantly, alpha striking at the start of a fight is just strong. If it's a fight where we both want to alpha strike and BA, him having BA hurts a bit.
07:10:09 Devastator: Trence is just brutal.
07:10:13 syv: While putting it on Alice doesn't hurt her role much. A healer/tank can lose a turn.
07:10:41 syv: The biggest reason against putting it on Alice is Willis having meditation for dragonbreath combos.
07:12:03 syv: We could also give Alice buff spells, which would give her a real turn one role. Giving her, say, ArmorOne, and Sessha BA, would let us stack armor and magic resist rapidly.
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07:12:53 sy: Fucking internet seriously come on
07:13:07 sy: Armorall is +1 armor, armorone is +2 and cheaper
07:13:31 Devastator: yeah, but you're talking turn economy, right?
07:13:38 Devastator: Battle Aura is a waste of turn economy.
07:14:06 sy: In any battle that matters we'll use mana potions
07:14:13 Devastator: takes away from first-strike power.
07:14:30 sy: Sessha and Alice have very little first strike power
07:14:50 sy: Backstab is a good turn 2 hit, and Drill charge is decent
07:15:17 sy: But I don't think either really compares to the hitall spells in a serious fight
07:15:23 sy: Maybe against, like, Arngrim
07:15:42 Devastator: Arngrim, the Mountain Hammer.
07:15:59 Devastator: Maybe Dorren will have triple res up.
07:16:07 Devastator: immune to fire is immune to fire.
07:16:25 Devastator: Remember, one of his hats is always having different gear, and last time he went for physical stuff.
07:16:42 Devastator: I'm not going to be afraid to hit you with an immunity.
07:16:56 Devastator: You've had them yourselves.
07:17:01 sy: "An" immunity, especially from Dorren, would be easy to overcome
07:17:21 sy: Willis and Trence both have a huge elemental arsenal already
07:17:26 Devastator: that's metaphorical.
07:17:33 Devastator: but yes, you're gonna have stuff.
07:17:40 sy: More a question of before 4S stuff
07:17:41 Devastator: ..but it's a turn to scan crystal.
07:17:47 sy: It's hard to think about this >.<
07:18:17 sy: On one hand I know it's probably wisest to think about 4S as our priority for our builds
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07:19:32 syvarris: But I also know we're gonna prep for them more, and I don't have solid ideas of what really to *do*
07:19:36 syvarris: Beyond damage spiking
07:19:45 syvarris: We never got a look at Spar, unfortunately.
07:19:58 syvarris: Should've hunted her just for that
07:20:05 Devastator: It was an option, yes.
07:20:16 Devastator: eh, I think you're due a question.
07:20:26 syvarris: I think I voted to avoid her specifically because of instakill sword
07:20:35 syvarris: In character, that's extremely reasonable
07:20:41 Devastator: instakill sword is bad
07:21:09 syvarris: OOC, if we lost the fight we'd get a restart, and we'd get to see how Spar fights. Probably get a specialized ally team with free death ward and such.
07:21:44 syvarris: Also, it's just fucking hard to really specifically counter them.
07:21:52 syvarris: Dorren's entire hat is being able to do anything
07:22:11 Devastator: and not a ton of damage.
07:22:23 syvarris: Carina's hat is both a ton of flexibility from that damn cloak, along with huge spike damage.
07:22:45 syvarris: Arngrim is a healer tank with manadrain, and something else IIRC.
07:22:55 syvarris: Spar I just don't know, beyond also being huge spike
07:23:41 Devastator: You do have a question.
07:24:18 Devastator: You also have a top-flight assassin.
07:24:46 syvarris: The most useful question would be "What spells exactly will Dorren use during the most important Four Swords team battle, and what are their effects?"
07:24:57 syvarris: But that's just spoiling it
07:25:33 Devastator: Yeah, that's a bit beyond that.
07:25:37 Devastator: I haven't decided, personally.
07:25:43 Devastator: I have some solid ideas.
07:25:46 Devastator: and I know what his stunt is.
07:25:49 Devastator: but that's a bit too far.
07:25:59 Devastator: you want a spoiler on how Spar fights, that's fine, you can find that out later.
07:26:07 Devastator: but I don't have Dorren's spell list for the final battle.
07:26:20 syvarris: Spar and Dorren are the important ones to shut down. Spar, I have no idea how to do that. Stuns? Debuff resist would be expected. Debuff piercing/removal is something we could pursue, and I already know that.
07:27:05 syvarris: Dorren, having both physical and elemental spike damage, I think. And probably some kind of buffclear effect.
07:28:48 syvarris: Carina sucks, but isn't a priority, and I don't have a better idea for her than buff up and kill her with attrition. Which isn't really doable before we kill Spar, who dgaf about your buffs, and Dorren, who will absolutely beat us in a buff race.
07:29:38 syvarris: I'm confident we can reasonably beat Carina and Arngrim alone in a straight fight without any complex strategies, given full gear.
07:29:57 syvarris: Thougn there's the terrifying thought of them using revive items on Dorren and Spar.
07:30:45 Devastator: Do note, their overall HP will be lower due to hitting 12th level.
07:31:09 syvarris: Harry+. One enemy will attack Alice Nepenthe next round. Will take minor counterattack damage. +
07:31:31 syvarris: If used on a mage, does that prevent the mage from casting, because they must hit?
07:31:39 syvarris: Or does it only trigger if they'd use an attack?
07:31:51 syvarris: I feel like I asked this before
07:32:33 syvarris: The answer should be no, because disabling Dorren because Alice just spams Harry would be silly.
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07:34:25 syv: Also I forgot healing potions are a thing ._.
07:34:35 syv: That's why I felt healing spells were useless
07:35:41 Devastator: If used on a mage they must hit Alice.
07:35:44 Devastator: but they can use a spell.
07:35:48 syv: Especially if basic potions get restocked for free, it's literally only a waste of cash.
07:36:00 syv: ....Honestly, that still sounds like a Dorren counter.
07:36:13 Devastator: Yeah, his best spells are the non blasty ones.
07:36:21 Devastator: but it's a better Arngrim counter, really.
07:36:27 Devastator: he doesn't hit hard.
07:36:50 Devastator: No, it's been trained up.
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07:37:28 syv: Does Harry only work against one of two actions if an enemy is hasted?
07:37:46 Devastator: Although if you use it twice, I'll let it apply twice.
07:37:52 syv: And I assume hasted double harry--yes, thank you.
07:39:20 syv: I'm sure we've done this before, but does:
07:39:46 syv: Sessha (haste boots): stun spar
07:39:54 syv: Trence double action, Alice double action
07:40:04 syv: Like, that's a valid opening round?
07:40:04 Devastator: You don't have a haste spell, I believe.
07:40:20 syv: Haste potion, but we could buy a spell if we wanted, eh
07:40:31 Devastator: and no, I think all haste abilities have applied for the next turn.
07:40:46 syv: Okay, that's more significant then.
07:40:47 Devastator: I might have messed that up a bit with some bossfights.
07:40:55 Devastator: but I think haste should only apply next turn.
07:41:00 syv: It's a reasonable rule, yeah
07:41:12 Devastator: Do note, Dorren has a haste spell.
07:41:21 Devastator: Because of course he does.
07:41:21 syv: Yeah, he used it on us, didn't he?
07:41:35 syv: That's why I asked about harry and haste :v
07:41:50 syv: Hasted Alice harrying both arngrim and dorren is ALSO really good.
07:42:07 syv: The concern there is that Dorren can't have more actions than her.
07:42:20 syv: And he could first-round haste himself.
07:42:28 syv: Or open the battle with haste
07:42:39 syv: Or fuck, have Carina haste him
07:42:43 Devastator: Or have some haste-related bullshit.
07:42:54 Devastator: What do you think he was doing with those pair of cannon?
07:43:21 Devastator: That actually took his entire mana pool to do that.
07:43:22 syv: And you promised to not have him do that in the final 4S fight
07:43:39 Devastator: do note that hasting multiple people one at a time might happen.
07:43:53 Devastator: I just won't have him double-haste Spar somehow and get four hits.
07:44:29 syv: Hence why I'm suddenly so obsessed with ENSURING Alice has enough actions to full hsrry him from round 1 no matter what
07:44:54 syv: I don't recall Arngrim's moveset so well
07:45:03 syv: I should look it up again...
07:45:42 Devastator: Red = Sonic Blast, chance of stun, smallish wind damage to all.
07:45:44 Devastator: White = Reflector, bounces next attack back at sender, bounces reduced amounts of all following attacks back, special abilities go through. Counts as a shield.
07:45:45 Devastator: Gray = Moonbolt. Drains ~20 mana from the target. Causes tiredness if not enough mana is present.
07:45:52 Devastator: His weapon always ignores armour but does very low damage.
07:46:22 syv: Moonbolt hurts a bit too, but I expect to spam mana potions in that fight.
07:46:38 syv: Was it cyclical, or did he have access to all of them at all times?
07:47:04 Devastator: Free choice, like they were an infinite supply of consumables.
07:47:17 Devastator: He has a couple of healing options, a couple of buff spells, and Black Tentacles which is an area entanglement spell.
07:47:24 Devastator: he also had a haste spell, but I'm retconning that away.
07:47:47 Devastator: I'll replace it with something else.
07:47:55 syv: Item use is generally scary and can fuck up any plan, too >.>
07:48:15 syv: Potions are really just mercenary Dorren
07:48:32 syv: Next time we meet him we should taunt him with that
07:48:42 syv: "Beyond your stupid ring, you're just a cheap supply of potion effects"
07:48:51 Devastator: he will have some blocking abilities.
07:48:56 Devastator: you fought him basically solo.
07:49:04 Devastator: he'll have some cover abilities for his buddies.
07:49:12 syv: Yeah, I was wondering about that. He's too ignorable otherwise.
07:49:28 Devastator: it's too obvious for Sessha to miss that, particularly since you ran into people with similar abilities.
07:49:32 Devastator: Also, he'll be on his mount.
07:49:43 syv: Step one: Somehow don't die to Spar, and continue not dying
07:49:52 syv: Step two: disable Dorren with Harry
07:51:13 Devastator: "You're just a cheap supply of potion effects"
07:51:26 Devastator: It's good, but the man can cast hitgroup Void spells.
07:51:33 Devastator: Those don't come in potions.
07:52:31 Devastator: maybe you should see if you can do any summon options.
07:52:39 Devastator: and don't forget Alice needs some divine help.
07:53:38 syv: Summons are a very good idea I had not considered.
07:54:00 syv: Perfect for Alice, she has a lot of mana and no good opener.
07:54:51 Devastator: Yeah, she kinda needs a patron god before you land on the island.
07:54:55 Devastator: otherwise there will be some smitery.
07:55:17 Devastator: That's somewhat more possible against people who have left the service of a god than it is for normal people.
07:55:36 Devastator: Normal people, it's basically 'don't fuck with altars'
07:55:57 syv: Will the god we choose have any particular effect on her abilities?
07:56:29 syv: Or can Trence make her just do random stupid stuff and get favor from that one chaos god?
07:56:53 Devastator: Yeah, you can expect a new ability.
07:57:04 Devastator: Chaos god isn't actually a chaos god.
07:57:08 Devastator: you just don't know what that god is.
07:57:16 Devastator: Mighta told you once.
07:59:09 syv: Would Willis be *good at* summoning a giant monster?
08:01:20 syv: The fact that we'll want to haste the whole party for 4S does give more reason to give him battle aura.
08:01:53 Devastator: Mmm, I don't think I gave assessments for summons.
08:01:59 Devastator: Mage summons are a bit different.
08:02:24 Devastator: He'd have to learn a gate-type spell or get something together like Carina has.
08:02:27 Devastator: I think I went over it in thread.
08:02:49 Devastator: I'm gonna say no, he doesn't have the blaster mage discounts he has, but he'll still have the power.
08:02:56 Devastator: so you should be able to get something together.
08:03:04 Devastator: the power doesn't really go away. It's cost that varies.
08:04:34 syv: Sessha and Alice have any known unusual compatibilty?
08:05:26 Devastator: Sessh is good for debuffs, ok for healing, very bad for direct offensive spells.
08:05:35 syv: For summons specifically I mean
08:06:27 Devastator: Sessh is good for healing too.
08:06:52 Devastator: Haven't decided. Doubt they'll be partciularly good, but they don't have Willis's super MP issues.
08:11:25 syv: Alice would seem reasonable to have compat, aside from the fact she doesn't know any summons
08:12:31 Devastator: Not all paladins do summons.
08:12:36 Devastator: some of them don't even do magic.
08:12:38 syv: Could also see Sessha having surprising aptitude, and having never used it because summons aren't a good tool for assassins
08:12:53 Devastator: summons can be great assassin tools.
08:13:04 Devastator: "Why is Bahamut inside my bedroom?"
08:13:25 syv: For damage... they're not very controllable?
08:13:29 Devastator: nah, can be a good way to smuggle in extra firepower.
08:13:42 syv: I am assuming summons do not obey orders and are just a monster that's on your side
08:13:57 Devastator: Ahh, yeah, but there's gates where you don't really know what you'll be getting.
08:14:03 Devastator: and there's Carina's thing where you generally do know.
08:14:16 Devastator: Nah, the smart ones can follow orders.
08:14:31 Devastator: Most don't, but there's enough exceptions that you can deal with it.
08:14:39 Devastator: and there's accessories that do that too.
08:16:30 syv: We get to choose our +6 items, right?
08:16:50 syv: So if we wanted Willis to have a crossbow/staff, we could get him a +6
08:16:57 Devastator: Ahh, yeah, you could manage that.
08:17:04 Devastator: do note, +6 will take travel, quest, and money.
08:17:17 Devastator: unless you luck out in a very dangerous area.
08:17:29 syv: I figure we might get one for Trence, maybe Willis.
08:17:44 syv: Getting one for Trence just seems prudent.
08:17:48 Devastator: The only issue with Trence is you won't get to see it in combat. ;-p
08:25:49 Devastator: Still counts even when they aren't visible, yes.
09:09:51 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d12: 11 <Total: 11>
09:10:04 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d12: 12 <Total: 12>
09:10:12 GameServ:
Devastator rolled 1d12: 1 <Total: 1>
09:10:24 Devastator: the drama dice have returned.
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21:29:53 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
21:29:53 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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