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04:31:54 Devastator: I think you'll be somewhat pleasantly surprised by the fight.
04:32:05 Devastator: you guys have leveled and have better gear than that first Carina fight.
04:32:15 Devastator: so she's no longer on a 20 hit HP count.
04:35:35 syv: I was expecting that, but also expecting more difficult company
04:35:41 syv: And prolly less gentle spells.
04:36:03 Devastator: Just rolled for it.
04:36:06 Devastator: you getting Dorren!
04:36:09 syv: Really tempted to switch the battle aura to Sessha.
04:36:24 syv: ...Dorren is probably the best case, isn't he?
04:36:32 Devastator: Oh that depends, he's got a crew for this one.
04:36:41 Devastator: and it ain't the standard two gunners.
04:37:12 syv: I suppose we knew we wouldn't have to deal with Spar, who is definitely the worst.
04:37:56 syv: But... yeah, with Dorren there, party-wide indignation sounds very nice.
04:37:59 Devastator: Arngrim's mostly support, yeah.
04:38:11 Devastator: do remember that he doesn't actually blow things up all that hard.
04:38:21 syv: OTOH, Sessha attack spam is very nice too
04:38:56 Devastator: his strength is in being excessively tanky for a mage, having a ridiculous quantity of spells, changing up his gear a lot, and having a high MP cap.
04:39:09 Devastator: but his raw power isn't really that strong.
04:40:02 Devastator: oh, and his special ring.
04:40:34 Devastator: which basically just does an exact copy of whatever he last did.
04:40:45 Devastator: Willis could use it to blow two meditated spells in a row, for instance, if he had the MP for that.
04:41:29 Devastator: Right, Megalomania.
04:42:05 Devastator: (trying to remember his music.)
04:47:16 syv: Doublecasting magic makes him a pretty scary blaster...
04:47:24 Devastator: Carina has Fighting of the Spirit, Dorren has Megalomania, Arngrim has Nan's theme from Suikoden II, (I have to write his backstory), and Spar is either the Lufia II Sinistral Bossfight music, or I'll reserve that for the final bossfight... but it looks like you'll never encounter her solo.
04:47:59 Devastator: oh he's a perfectly good blaster, but the ring is more for doing really stupid tricks.
04:48:09 syv: "200% average power" is really not comforting even so
04:48:48 Devastator: he was double-hasting two cannon and their crews to do that eight-shot assault thing.
04:49:47 Devastator: Of course, you can't normally stack haste.
04:49:54 Devastator: but that ring, it just doesn't care about stuff like that.
04:50:08 syv: I *am* slightly disappointed you won't use the touhou labyrinth song for Spar v.v
04:50:20 Devastator: can you link it again?
04:50:30 Devastator: I'm pretty much set on final boss being the Sinistral theme, though.
04:50:47 Devastator: I really have never heard a better fight theme in any JRPG, ever.
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04:52:00 syv: Didn't have the link on this phome
04:52:07 syv: Lemme listen to sinistral theme again
04:54:00 syv: Okay this is extremely JRPG
04:54:10 syv: But I still like my suggestion
04:54:23 Devastator: Yes. It's also really good.
04:54:54 Devastator: yeah, that's just fine.
04:55:03 Devastator: yours is just fine.
04:56:08 syv: Did you see that Egan wants to riff on Extinction with his own game?
04:56:37 syv: That would be... interesting to see.
04:57:04 Devastator: I mean, JRPG where you are woof should be doable. ;-p
04:57:14 Devastator: (but nah, it'll be its own thing.)
04:57:32 syv: I like Extinction's format and style, and like Egan's writing and charactization. It might be very suitable to him.
04:57:43 syv: And yes, he wants to do an entirely different battle system
04:57:51 syv: Which kiiinda makes it just an SG
04:58:01 syv: But any Extinction influence is good, IMO
04:58:14 Devastator: I'm not sure how much of extinction came out of my own madness.
04:58:56 Devastator: you know, that touhou music..
04:59:01 Devastator: it'd be better for someone other than Spar.
04:59:06 Devastator: It should be Trence's boss theme.
04:59:48 syv: Trence, getting a boss theme?
05:00:11 Devastator: presumably Dorren and such get some kinda music when they fight you guys. ;-p
05:00:40 Devastator: always happy to get extinction flattery. ;-p
05:00:49 Devastator: but yeah, good luck to
ER.
05:01:05 syv: I *specifically* feel like Dark A Liar suits Spar, though. The combination of it sounding like an alarm, and having a majestic/holy air fits a hyper lethal paladin
05:01:24 Devastator: I like the chaotic nature of it for Trence.
05:01:41 Devastator: Spar.. well you haven't met her.
05:02:06 Devastator: with her I'd want something more relentless.
05:02:13 syv: My only mental notes for herare "EXTREMELY LETHAL" and "heroic paladin of the concordat"
05:02:16 Devastator: or constantly building.
05:02:29 Devastator: She's not a paladin of the concordat, actually.
05:02:40 Devastator: They do have a paladin taking the place of Arngrim in Lowertown.
05:02:52 Devastator: but no, she's an adventurer.
05:03:07 syv: I thought she was an adventurer paladin?
05:03:30 syv: Wonder where I got paladin from.
05:03:38 syv: Prolly just from working with the concordat
05:03:43 Devastator: well they do have paladins and I've used the term before.
05:03:55 Devastator: but no, Spar's a duelist. Or Trence's class, but I think duelist fits better.
05:04:36 syv: Duelist sounds more appropriate
05:05:00 Devastator: Arngrim's probably the traditional buffed cleric name of Bishop. Carina's a berzerker, but I don't know if I mentioned that term when you scanned her, and Dorren's an Arcane Magister.
05:05:01 syv: There's some appeal to having a rival character of the same class.
05:05:07 Devastator: yeah, but it's not important.
05:05:10 syv: But Duelist is more suitable to what I know of her
05:05:26 Devastator: I'm fine changing details I haven't actually written yet.
05:07:44 Devastator: I don't know if I'll play it.
05:08:46 Devastator: anyway, could go into Spar's backstory a bit while I'm thinking of it.
05:09:05 Devastator: she should be local to Valterre. Arngrim's originally from the western continent, and has been all over, but Spar's local from Valterre.
05:10:11 Devastator: Anyway, she'll do some relatively minor adventures, and then get a cassandra-style warning about the upcoming dungeon collapse that leads to her main adventure. Which she can't handle.
05:10:49 Devastator: That's where the concordat help out, in listening to her and helping her find a crew and give her the credibility it takes to get a real defense together, along with creating that superweapon.
05:11:04 Devastator: have to add a lot more details, but it'll be along that basic line.
05:12:14 Devastator: mmm, probably add a few more things beforehand too.
05:12:32 Devastator: yeah, but something along those lines.
05:12:34 syv: What kinda things would you add?
05:12:47 Devastator: Some stuff done, some personality stuff, some family stuff, for the theme.
05:12:59 Devastator: and at least two significant adventures, not one.
05:13:35 syv: Not sure I'd have *two* adventures, unless they're both hitting other notes.
05:13:50 syv: Don't want it to be too long a story. Just enough to get the character across.
05:14:05 syv: Assuming you're talking about a postable biography for players to read
05:14:06 Devastator: It's for a backstory page.
05:14:12 Devastator: I kinda want it to be a bit long, but yeah.
05:14:16 Devastator: I'll see how it looks.
05:20:12 Devastator: ..yeah, double haste is ridiculous.
05:20:25 Devastator: I'll bar that move from the final bossfight.
05:28:43 Devastator: ..yeah, I like that as Trence's bosstheme.
05:32:58 Devastator: I hope egan's experiment with extinction-style works out.
05:34:46 Devastator: Egan's work is always good.
05:47:35 syv: And I'm not so sure you should bar it from the final fight
05:47:46 syv: Have them be cheesy, we'll be cheesy too
05:48:53 Devastator: Do you really want Spar getting four attacks in the second combat round?
05:49:16 Devastator: Besides, I have a stunt in mind already.
05:49:27 Devastator: double haste isn't right.
05:49:58 Devastator: spar goes first, then you guys, then the whole party goes.
05:50:27 syv: I found a sword in
ER which has one of the REALLY AWESOME attacks from that hard miniboss I mentioned loving to fight
05:50:50 syv: I have 8, plus five from the +stat great rune.
05:51:31 syv: And it's a "unique skill", so I can't find an ash of war with the same move that can just be put on whatever
05:51:50 Devastator: can't add two points from one level?
05:53:00 syv: I need to level twice to use it
05:53:08 syv: Or wait until I find a +arcane item
05:53:20 syv: I think I'll do the latter, but *sigh*
05:53:32 Devastator: want it nowsies, it does?
05:56:31 Devastator: yeah, no, I know Dorrens trick for the final fight.
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06:06:32 Devastator: it was 1/3 odds to get dorren, btw.
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06:14:27 Devastator: it was 1/3 odds to get dorren, btw.
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06:18:40 syv: I wonder if it's this phone that's the problem
06:18:53 syv: Normally I have an extremely reliable connection at work
06:19:31 Devastator: anyway, Dorren was like one-in-three.
06:19:37 Devastator: and you get to see the city spirit!
06:19:48 Devastator: remember that big statue near the main gate when you first walked in?
06:20:00 Devastator: there's another one in uppertown.
06:30:14 Devastator: (Yes, I had this bit planned in the game.)
06:30:32 Devastator: I don't have that many things port over directly like that, but this was one of them.
06:34:34 Devastator: I had to do the animated statue thing, it's obligatory in JRPGs.
06:42:26 syv: I look forward to seeing it in action~
06:43:17 Devastator: won't be long, I'll do it tomorrow.
06:51:21 Devastator: format is just 'these things happen', with an odd turn-based battle format.
06:51:30 Devastator: that quite honestly, feels kludgy to me.
06:51:39 Devastator: JRPG doesn't mix that smoothly into it.
06:52:19 syv: I was just saying I look forward to reading about a giant statue charging an army
06:52:23 syv: And prolly getting blown up
06:52:39 Devastator: Oh, it isn't quite going like that.
06:52:45 Devastator: spirit can't leave the city, after all.
06:58:06 Devastator: basically you're gonna see ordinary soldiers get through, and then both Carina and Dorren are going to come through with their squads. They'll both head for you, but one will divert to deal with the statue.
06:58:32 Devastator: roll means Carina will fight the statue and you'll deal with dorren.
06:59:09 Devastator: you do like information. ;-p
07:01:40 Devastator: Yes it means if you'd messed up the statue or the cult badly enough, you would be facing a double bossfight.
07:01:52 Devastator: (assuming a breach, etc.)
07:12:48 syv: Though it -does- hurt a little to have valuable information
07:13:04 syv: Because I can't act on it and suddenly change orders to counter Dorren rather than Carina
07:17:30 Devastator: I didn't roll until you'd decided.
07:17:35 Devastator: and you didn't know where Dorren even was.
07:24:03 Devastator: could have been avoided if you'd known, but..
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08:02:52 syv: How does the morning find you?
08:03:06 ER: pretty dark for a morning still!
08:03:24 Devastator: I see you're going for a woof sg.
08:04:48 syv: That makes even less sense than rats dropping humanity
08:06:42 ER: you find a lot of rats with madness in their eyes
08:06:56 ER: which is supposed to be a status which only affects humans
08:07:13 ER: I dunno if you can actually build up madness on normal rats tho
08:07:35 ER: but I just think that rats are kind of... special or something in those games
08:08:12 ER: rat nom noms part of the elden ring
08:08:49 ER: woof does not have guns, being that she doesn't really use tools at the start
08:09:09 ER: but uh, there may or may not be casually just guns and spaceships existing
08:09:30 Devastator: guns and spaceships..
08:09:42 Devastator: I think the text adventure on here that I last tried had you guys as a lion.
08:09:51 Devastator: that had you on a spaceship.
08:09:58 syv: Guns and spaceships are nice
08:10:06 syv: But, please, keep ballistics? o.o
08:12:14 ER: I like muskets, automatics, and laser guns equally :p
08:12:35 Devastator: automatic laser musket.
08:12:49 syv: Then have all of them and everyone's happy~
08:15:30 Devastator: laser blunderbusses. ;-p
08:16:55 ER: stick an overly complicated mechanical autoloader to your primitive laser musket
08:17:17 ER: which is basiclly just a musket with a light gem stuck in it
08:27:07 ER: I haven't actually played many JRPGs or read more than like half of Extinction :p
08:27:43 Devastator: I don't think that's necessary.
08:28:02 Devastator: I do draw a lot of stuff from them, but you can use different sources just the same way.
08:30:37 Devastator: knowing a little about the mechanics might help some.
08:30:57 Devastator: you want me to go over the standard JRPG combat mechanism?
08:32:07 ER: mostly I have a bunch of ideas somewhat liable to fail being fun because I have no ability to balance them
08:32:53 ER: want to award xp for a combination of damage taken, meter gained, and time elapsed for example
08:33:12 Devastator: I recommend ignoring that entirely and just winging it.
08:33:21 Devastator: give a level when you think one's warranted.
08:34:20 Devastator: if you want like meters or damage taken or such to matter, have them matter for the duration of one battle.
08:34:25 Devastator: like have them matter in that battle.
08:34:33 Devastator: but you don't want to track that.
08:34:41 ER: that is, trying to get them to play in a more entertaining way
08:35:27 Devastator: then mess with things!
08:35:32 Devastator: change each battle up a little bit.
08:35:40 Devastator: add status effects or such.
08:35:45 Devastator: throw a weird enemy or two at them.
08:36:02 Devastator: and have a few regular ones mixed in so it isn't always new.
08:36:47 Devastator: and don't be too afraid to rebalance stuff, even if that means removing things.
08:37:04 Devastator: you don't want to be an Oz, but people understand when something gets changed. Just do it and don't dwell on it.
08:38:17 ER: but that sounds like paying attention to what's happening ;-;
08:39:03 Devastator: well, unless you want to be dubs, you're going to have to do that. ;-p
08:39:10 Devastator: but nah, you can run games that are almost entirely narrative.
08:39:19 Devastator: that's what Revenant is.
08:39:32 Devastator: those are great too.
08:45:46 syv: A nixe thing abour wanting to have people play in an interesting way is that people themselves want to play in an interesting way
08:46:04 syv: Just give some reward for it when they do it, like with ichor bonus, and they'll do it
08:46:43 syv: Maybe have the reward be even more substantial, so it's *clearly* the right thing to do at all times (and worth using a less effective stategy for cool points)
08:48:11 ER: the reward could become very large with it being 1 per character
08:48:38 ER: and enemies move determanistically so it can even be 1 per enemy on top of that
08:53:23 Devastator: could use decimals.
09:01:23 syv: Assuming it's like ichor, and therefore limited to the battle, 1 ichor for style isn't actually all that much
09:01:35 syv: That's five turns to get a core burst purely from style
09:02:35 Devastator: I've done probably 400 turns in Extinction,
syv. ;-p
09:03:19 syv: "and therefore limited to the battle
09:03:30 syv: How many five turn battles have we had? ;P
09:04:16 Devastator: ship fight was like 12.
09:04:27 Devastator: there's been a few!
09:07:16 ER: meter is shared between the whole party
09:08:20 ER: since it's not multiplayer, so it doesn't make much sense to divide the reward between characters
09:11:55 syv: Then it's way better to do~
09:12:04 syv: Functionally that means it's more than one
09:12:26 syv: I just had an interesting fight against a runebear (which are generally terrifying and hard to fight)
09:12:42 syv: It charged ans knocked me off a cliff I didn't know was there, following after me
09:13:10 syv: We both landed on some large branches (roots?) like two meters below the ledge, but over a much longer drop
09:13:35 syv: No real room to manuever. Bear couldn't reach me, but I couldn't get back to the cliff, and certainly couldn't safely fight without risking falling off.
09:14:16 syv: So I started throwing lots of poison throwing knives while it continually roared at me from like three meters away.
09:14:48 syv: Once it got down to ~20% health, it apparently decided "fuck it" and leapt over the distant, knocking us both down to the ground below, and very nearly killing me.
09:14:55 syv: Also there was another enemy down there
09:15:11 syv: So a very sudden and very tense fight
09:18:37 syv: I had to refight the bear because I couldn't get back up to the cliff, and it was guarding items
09:19:00 syv: Round 2 had it hug me, and then just... fell through the ground?
09:19:08 syv: And died after falling for a bit, apparently
09:28:18 ER: I doubt you could even imagine it
11:00:12 ER: whereas the gatoraide flavor we had before looked like window cleaner, this one instead resembles piss
11:35:12 syv: Piss colored drinks are my favorite
11:36:00 syv: My brain is thinking about shadow of the mechlopolis again
11:36:28 syv: Now I'm thinking of crossing the Sekiro system into it
11:36:53 syv: Instead of combat styles, you have different firearms
11:37:06 syv: This is a bad idea and I love it
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11:53:12 ER: but why would you hunt huge creatures with tiny little smallarms
11:53:27 ER: clearly you need either something absurdly sharp or something big
11:54:00 ER: maybe monowire bolos for a giant killing small gun?
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23:07:38 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
23:07:38 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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