00:02:47 Devastator: First blood.. doesn't really make sense.
00:03:13 Nikitian: (the issue here is not with Inigo losing, it's with miscommunication potentially leading to unfair fight, and that could damage relationship between Inigo and Rolla - without either of the players wishing for it, or meaning it that way)
00:04:07 Devastator: I mean.. Inigo isn't stupid, he just might not have fully realized the whole Plate Armour thing.
00:05:30 Nikitian: Does the armour cover everything, by the way? Any open patches of fur?
00:06:13 Devastator: It's very complete, although the tail cover is thin.
00:06:55 Nikitian: Inigo isn't stupid, I am, for forgetting the "fully armoured" part of the challenger description :P
00:07:42 Devastator: well you can talk it out with
ER.
00:07:48 Devastator: Just don't run. Rolla doesn't get tired. ;-p
00:08:04 Nikitian: Well, we are at an impasse; "first touch" is unfair to an armoured (and possibly not very mobile) opponent, while "first blood" is unfair to Inigo. Hmmm.
00:08:24 Nikitian: I guess we should talk it out with
ER, yeah :)
00:08:45 Devastator: Also, Inigo has a better combat bonus.
00:09:25 Devastator: so 'fair' is always negotiable.
00:14:06 Nikitian: Okay, I have an idea, writing a message now
00:17:59 Nikitian: By the way, am I correct in understanding that Rolla's armour doesn't give me any indication of Rolla's sex? (between realistic full plate armour and possibly lesser sexual dimorphism in vertical wolves than in humans)
00:34:39 Devastator: Eh, think you could probably tell.
00:40:15 Devastator: don't want to punish that.
00:43:02 Devastator: would you like a stream?
00:49:18 Nikitian: Thanks, I'm good (probably going to sleep soon); by the way, which space strategy are you playing lately that you have been mentioning? :)
00:49:32 Devastator: it's not really a space strategy game.
00:49:44 Devastator: it's a very casual space exploration/RTS.
00:52:56 Devastator: Best space strategy game is still MoO 1.
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00:59:15 MSanctor: (MoO1 is good, just disagreeing with your arguments that I have thought about much since then :P )
01:01:08 Devastator: It's just.. really good.
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01:01:51 Devastator: am I arguing it badly?
01:17:14 MSanctor: Nah, I just like reflecting on other people's thoughts long afterwards, especially when they strike a particular chord in me that I cannot easily identify :P
01:18:07 MSanctor: Not so much about winning mental arguments than understanding what exactly I agree or disagree with that I was originally unable to put in words :)
01:18:33 Devastator: I do think the best part of it is the gameplay focus..
01:18:46 Devastator: and the victory system.
01:20:00 Devastator: Just a way for the game winner to win.
01:26:03 MSanctor: Okay, sent a message to
ER about the revised terms of duel
01:27:08 MSanctor: Annd, time to sleep now, probably. Good night!
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05:24:38 syv: That was an odd experience to watch.
05:27:34 ER: big guy just walks through a wall and says "don't resist"
05:36:44 syv: "DON'T RESIST" *shotgun blast*
05:40:12 ER: it's just that he has really good reflexes and armor which trivializes pistol rounds
05:40:57 syv: With how heavy that armor was, it should trivialize fucking rifle rounds
05:41:08 syv: What was the heavy pistol thing the one guy hit him with?
05:52:43 ER: not sure. video description lists some additional weapon assets not from the game
05:53:51 ER: think it might have been the HL:A shotgun though
05:54:12 ER: some kind of futuristic break action shotgun pistol
05:57:15 ER: watching the fight scene in slow motion, seems that glasses guy's shotgun was knocking wallhammer back enough that he kept missing his own shotgun shots
05:57:37 ER: and made wallhammer's shield explode which caused him to drop his gun
06:02:06 syv: Ahh, that makes more sense.
06:25:26 syv: Zilla being in love with Jay is adorable, and a great way to tie him into the story.
06:26:59 syv: It finally makes good sense why these four characters are on the expedition. Of course Goj spoke to his sister, and she brought the man she loves, who happens to be powerful. Then he sought out the closest thing to an expert on the dangers inside the ruin--Emilia--and brought her along too.
06:27:43 syv: Also, it's a nice little personal tragedy for Zilla.
06:27:55 syv: Being in love with a man who keeps burning his memory of her.
06:36:30 Devastator: Does an armour piece count towards your carrying capacity?
06:39:20 Devastator: mmm, newbie's got too many items, then.
06:39:38 Devastator: nah, just being dumb.
06:39:51 ER: people are listing armor multiple times for some reason
06:50:59 ER: it's like a hard hotdog, but flatter
07:04:27 ER: we watched... seven, right?
07:05:02 Devastator: either started on 7 or finished 7.
07:05:35 Devastator: yeah, we finished 7.
07:06:30 ER: maybe we'll not watch seven episodes in one sitting this time? :p
07:07:07 Devastator: Probably not, it's later tonight.
07:07:11 Devastator: Mind you, I have no regrets.
07:08:56 Devastator: and the show is really good so far.
07:13:41 Devastator: now how you can tell them from his normal eyes, I'll never know.
07:13:56 Devastator: also the audio tracks are mislablled.
07:15:29 Devastator: I still think the best perk of mad scientist-dom is that you get to name all your stuff. ;-p
07:15:35 syv: ...Interestingly, this is hard (impossible?) to disprove
07:15:52 syv: If you *don't* keep memories after timeline shifts, how do you verify that?
07:16:09 Devastator: I could make the guy prove it.
07:16:12 syv: If it only works 50% of the time, is there any way to figure that out?
07:16:17 ER: well, there are things which could be too much to be coincidence
07:16:25 syv: Hence why I said disprove,
dev
07:16:26 Devastator: The lotto numbers thing was kinda proof.
07:16:49 syv: Do stuff that you could figure out must have been future actions by you,
07:17:13 syv: ...Maybe just send a text basically saying "hey do you remember this? I'm sending it from [date]"
07:17:48 Devastator: It's also incredibly geeky, but I do actually have a password. ;-p
07:18:21 Devastator: "I have no goddamn idea."
07:20:16 ER: something whic occured to me before which isn't really relevant, are there anystories where someone goes to war with the past and loses?
07:20:23 syv: The characters in this show are good
07:22:03 Devastator: To the Microwave of Time!
07:22:08 syv: Nah, this has better characters than PM3.
07:22:29 Devastator: PM3 has strong characters. This has more human ones.
07:22:36 syv: PM3 had very deliberately designed characters that served roles, and had fewer of them.
07:22:40 Devastator: Might be just that this one has more time.
07:22:47 syv: These characters are more complex and complete. Also, yes, more time.
07:23:15 syv: The best legitimate criticism of PM3 I've seen is that it has fairly little character development and progression.
07:23:22 Devastator: okay, that's a number.
07:23:35 Devastator: Mmm, yeah, that's tough.
07:23:38 Devastator: very much a time thing, though.
07:24:13 Devastator: Did you wipe out the other intervention?
07:24:55 ER: yeah it seems that doing that may allow OTHER people's changes to take effect
07:25:09 syv: They didn't translate that text damn it
07:25:19 Devastator: It just said "Will message you later"
07:25:28 ER: oh well, I guess that was all him
07:25:32 Devastator: is it isn't on the bottom subtitles?
07:25:49 Devastator: I don't see why not getting a new phone would change that.
07:26:17 syv: Also, the email was only supposed to go back four days
07:26:29 syv: They've known her for more than four days, haven't they?
07:27:46 Devastator: Is this meta-fanservice?
07:28:10 syv: I'm pretty sure it's directly fanservice for the viewer
07:28:25 syv: This is translated from a VN, remember
07:28:34 syv: One with no sex scenes, but still
07:28:35 Devastator: Yeah, that makes total sense now.
07:28:44 Devastator: like complete, absolute sense.
07:30:33 syv: ...No, wouldn't work. Nvm.
07:30:50 syv: Was thinking about time travel nonsense.
07:30:54 Devastator: although I am wondering how it can be done through text messages.
07:31:09 Devastator: Law of Anime says that this will somehow succeed.
07:31:48 ER: you'll mess up the entire setup this way!
07:32:56 Devastator: Explaining pagers to the children who watch this show! ;-p
07:34:08 ER: they throught this through to a surprising dergee
07:34:13 Devastator: I'm fairly impressed hacker guy could rig that together so quickly.
07:34:31 Devastator: did you kill your friends?
07:35:00 ER: just say it was an experient
07:36:25 syv: Does protagonist know how to make the magic microwave?
07:39:32 ER: none of these nerds know what they're doing
07:39:43 Devastator: I'd agree, but they have a TIME MACHINE.
07:39:59 Devastator: It's very, very difficult to argue that they're out to lunch when they have a TIME MACHINE.
07:40:00 ER: stupid people make cool things all the time~
07:40:09 syv: One made from a microwave.
07:40:19 syv: And they were literally just having lunch at a maid cafe.
07:40:20 Devastator: I agree with you in general.
07:40:45 Devastator: They were literally out to lunch, not metaphorically out to lunch.
07:40:56 Devastator: (but yeah,
ER, I get what you're saying.)
07:41:03 Devastator: also, who's purple-haired girl in the ending?
07:41:21 ER: probably a goddess of time or something :p
07:41:55 syv: "Could you be more cliched?"
07:42:03 syv: "[Three generic statements in a row]"
07:50:51 syv: Notably, it must've been a time traveler who put it there in the first place.
07:51:05 Devastator: I think the only one we know is bike girl, right?
07:51:29 ER: she's the example of successful physical travel
07:51:36 syv: And CERN, and the internet guy
07:51:57 syv: And protagonist, and literally everyone he trivially leaks the information to
07:52:04 Devastator: although it seems odd for CERN to put it there.
07:52:17 Devastator: but yes, they'd know about it.
07:53:54 syv: I wonder if the writers made him act crazy just so it'd be in-character to OTHER characters when he starts doing crazy shit due to time travel
07:54:12 Devastator: I think he's acting less crazy since he started with the time travel.
07:54:51 ER: is this finally gonna convince you to take notes?
07:54:56 syv: Which would line up with that.
07:55:01 syv: He can't take notes back with him.
07:55:12 Devastator: yeah, it's all memory.
07:55:28 Devastator: also Ferris is loaded.
07:55:31 ER: take notes so that when a different you comes through the black hole to overwrite your brain he knows what happened in thsi worldline
07:56:56 Devastator: Oh wow, a proper use of the word mana.
07:57:14 syv: Wasn't that just him being a nerd?
07:57:24 Devastator: the english VA had a very nerdy quote from the nerd.
07:57:59 Devastator: "moe culture is the wellspring from which all mana flows" which is an extremely rare useage of the language and very insightful in his character.
07:58:12 Devastator: of course, it's translated, so who knows.
08:00:43 Devastator: are timelines labelled or something?
08:00:48 ER: always winds up the same physical space?
08:01:00 Devastator: Yeah, that's odd. Wouldn't he move around?
08:01:23 Devastator: she wanted her dad to live.
08:01:47 syv: ...Why would she invite him now, though?
08:02:11 Devastator: eh, they were asking about a 5100, her dad had it once, she invited them over to talk to him.
08:03:15 syv: Idiot didn't realize how much power time travel is
08:03:34 ER: and how little control he has over it ;p
08:04:02 Devastator: this may be the implementation that has the least control over it that I've ever seen.
08:04:06 ER: but perhaps catgirl figured out that he did that for her
08:05:09 syv: I doubt she has any understanding of what he changed.
08:06:51 Devastator: Could still eat lunch there!
08:06:57 ER: always love when he runs off and fat nerd has to catch his breath
08:07:01 Devastator: and could still work part time.
08:08:38 Devastator: Yes, she's been off screen for a while.
08:09:53 ER: "our relationships haven't changed" is a pretty VN way of saying it :p
08:10:06 syv: There's a kinda existential horror to the concept that he overwrites himself when he timetravels.
08:10:08 Devastator: also, looks like the law of anime held true.
08:10:14 syv: That'd probably why he's not dealing with it.
08:10:25 Devastator: not something that you can productively think about.
08:10:37 syv: Hell, in-character I don't think he'd be willing to deal with it.
08:11:38 ER: couldn't have just believed that it worked?
08:12:11 syv: Sex is determined at conception!
08:13:47 Devastator: I see they're making the "I am a time traveller" sign more obvious.
08:16:21 Devastator: We're getting dangerously close to plot.
08:16:35 Devastator: "I'm watching you."
08:17:03 Devastator: A plate full of jelly is a worse threat.
08:18:49 Devastator: reminisces about the past.
08:18:58 ER: we're just conditioning for shit to get real
08:19:06 Devastator: Desaturated lighting.
08:19:12 Devastator: one-on-one time with the protag.
08:19:17 Devastator: Is she going to be gone next T-mail?
08:19:19 syv: Setting up so we feel bad when kid gets killed
08:19:31 Devastator: Well I will be. She's adorable.
08:20:44 ER: help with the cooking you asshole
08:21:37 Devastator: I think he's banned from cooking.
08:23:32 ER: the friends we made along the way
08:23:46 syv: That's the real steins;gate
08:23:47 Devastator: The real friends were the freinds we made along the way.
08:24:41 Devastator: from the part-time warrior.
08:24:53 Devastator: you need subs for them,
syv?
08:25:33 syv: The last subs option translates... most texts
08:26:15 ER: but now you won't remember what resulted from you doing that
08:27:25 ER: oh yes, now he's taking notes
08:27:36 Devastator: I think he screwed up badly.
08:27:43 ER: he got a message from himself and figured out that he should takes video
08:28:12 Devastator: Plot is on hold again.
08:28:40 syv: We had some character development, and a productive use of time travel.
08:28:51 ER: not too far off the culmination of... this half of the season, I guess
08:29:02 syv: I think that was also his first time to casually use it for himself on a whim.
08:29:15 Devastator: he also actually accomplished something he was trying to do with it.
08:29:17 ER: ...get the feeling he saved her life though
08:29:31 Devastator: Mmm, could be that.
08:29:37 Devastator: but it sounded like 'time travel' not suicide.
08:30:01 Devastator: we could do one more, maybe.
08:30:16 syv: Someone was murdered at a time travel convention before.
08:30:38 Devastator: I thought it was 'someone was missing'
08:30:57 Devastator: fat guy was going to a forum meetup.
08:31:03 Devastator: time traveller was going to a forum meetup.
08:31:06 Devastator: fat guy didn't show.
08:31:20 Devastator: dangit, should have told him to let nerd go there.
08:31:38 Devastator: would have gotten the warrior back and had a better perspective on Titor.
08:32:01 syv: He didn't know she was going to the time travel convention specifically.
08:32:11 Devastator: Well, no, but he found out later.
08:32:11 syv: He just knew she was going *somewhere*
08:32:23 Devastator: he didn't know from her until after sending that text.
08:32:24 syv: ...After he time traveled, yeah
08:32:32 Devastator: right, that makes sense.
08:32:35 ER: he has finally worked out that sending messages to *himself* is probably the most reliable way of changing the past though!
08:32:37 Devastator: have to send another text.
08:33:00 syv: Man, it really would not be, if it were myself
08:33:11 ER: himself after he figured ou the microwave at least
08:33:23 syv: Getting a future text from myself with this setup would be basically saying "You're going to die soon."
08:33:33 syv: "Write your last words down, so I can use them, please."
08:33:44 ER: now, still gotta figure out the mystery of what was up in the first episode
08:33:49 Devastator: I barely answer my phone and don't send texts..
08:34:00 ER: red said that she met him before and he had something to tell her
08:39:32 syv: Hey
Dev, can you think of a specific day and time you either would've read a text sent to you, or when you were next to someone whose number you know?
08:40:16 Devastator: If the answer is 'Would have gotten it in a few days', yeah.
08:40:21 syv: Ideally, someone who wouldn't be able or willing to figure out a coded message which you *would*.
08:40:29 syv: Well that seems fine then.
08:40:31 Devastator: if it requires 'get it this minute', then it's harder.
08:40:36 Devastator: ..I actually have a password.
08:41:06 syv: You could verify the source to yourself easily.
08:41:26 Devastator: the password is longer than the data limit.
08:41:44 syv: Seems like a poor password, then.
08:42:02 Devastator: The limit they're working with is 18 chars. ;-p
08:42:31 Devastator: mmm, right. It was what, 24 for normal ones?
08:42:34 syv: Also, it's in Japanese, so that's close to eighteen words.
08:42:59 ER: she said the number of bytes they can send at one point
08:43:08 syv: Finally, I believe they're actually sending emails, they just treat them like texts because Japan.
08:43:18 Devastator: I think they're sending texts because 2010.
08:43:32 Devastator: they're also being treated like texts.
08:43:37 Devastator: emails are different.
08:43:43 syv: Do texts normally have subject lines?
08:45:56 Devastator: I have a flip-phone right here.
08:46:11 syv: What would be the chain of consciousness if he sent a text back five days, telling himself to send a text back ten days, two days after receiving the first text?
08:46:31 Devastator: he can send one text back years.
08:46:56 syv: It's unnecessary, not impossible.
08:47:24 syv: That's not what I'm concerned with. In which timelines does he have which memories?
08:47:35 syv: Does timeline 1 transfer to timeline 3?
08:47:38 Devastator: Yeah, had a subject line.
08:48:00 ER: I think that it iterates as many times as needed for him to pop back up at the same time
08:48:09 ER: measuring time from the creation of the universe
08:48:09 syv: Does timeline 2 ever experience timeline 1 overwriting him?
08:49:16 Devastator: timeline 2 gets a text and then writes a new one.
08:49:17 ER: more importantly, do his friends have to deal with him keeling over from brain death every time he sends something :p
08:49:33 Devastator: Dunno, they seem to move around with him.
08:49:36 Devastator: they just don't remember it.
08:49:52 ER: (perhaps doing that doesn't leave behind any doomed timeline, though. everybody comes with him, they just don't remember)
08:50:04 ER: (explaining the "retaining relationships" thing)
08:50:24 syv: There's also a thought--this allows his past self to screw him over by adding changes he didn't intend, even without him instructing it to.
08:51:16 ER: which possibly means in some weird way that he never has a version of himself get overwritten, because none of that stuff *actually* happened, the world just shifts to how it would have been if it did happen :p
08:51:46 syv: Send a message back in time. "Do X". Then, the self that receives this does X, and also sends another message farther back in time, possibly because of doing X.
08:51:50 Devastator: but I think he just jumps from 1 -> 3.
08:51:54 ER: everybody has one soul, which moves one way through time
08:52:03 Devastator: or from 1820843 to 728421
08:52:11 syv: Well now we're getting into metaphysics and the definition of a soul.
08:52:27 syv: He's deleting his own memories and experiences, regardless.
08:52:42 syv: And totally changing other people's memories and experiences. Even lives.
08:52:43 ER: no, because none of that was real
08:52:53 ER: what actually happened is what he remembers
08:53:12 syv: Ever gone under anesthetics for surgery?
08:54:26 Devastator: Yes, I've never been under general.
08:54:56 syv: Well I have, a bunch of times.
08:55:18 syv: You say things that you *totally* forget
08:56:24 syv: Yes I do, I once told my parents some upsetting things that they thought was word salad because the characters involved are named after firearms.
08:57:38 syv: One's experience is still reality even if you don't recall it.
09:00:19 ER: no reason for me to care about experiences in the past if I don't remember them
09:00:25 ER: may as well be someone else's
09:00:35 syv: And this is why it's disturbing.
09:00:54 syv: You get a text from four days in the future, from yourself telling you to change the timeline now.
09:01:07 syv: If you do so, everything you do for the next four days will be forgotten.
09:01:42 ER: regardless of the fact they'll be forgotten, I'll still get to experience them~
09:01:48 syv: All of your experience over that time span will be replaced in memory by someone else, but the changes you effect will remain and affect them.
09:35:29 Devastator: How does Subaru's purchases end up in the new world?
10:27:14 syv: With the rest of his inventory.
10:30:40 Devastator: I can get his clothing, but did the witch pick up the bag of stuff at the same time?
10:35:37 syv: Yes, because he was holding it
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22:27:12 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
22:27:12 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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