01:23:12 ER has joined #einsteinianroulette
02:47:10 Devastator: (it starts with a 'yo')
02:47:42 Devastator looks up the chemical composition of marble.
02:51:50 Devastator: agg, calcium carbonate.
02:52:23 Devastator: the village should be named "Sugar Cookie" ;-p
02:52:31 ER: ah, so I should eat old statues to make my bones stronger?
02:53:10 Devastator: If you had calcium magic? Sure!
02:54:31 ER: is "magic" code for "ability to digest thing?"
02:55:13 Devastator: well, you can digest calcium normally, but calcium carbonate is pretty much a no.
02:56:06 ER: why not? calcium and carbon are both things I'm made of~
02:56:42 Devastator: That is a joke, but it's a good question if taken seriously..
02:58:30 ER: I'm made from protons, neutrons, and electrons. therefore eating any matter is good for me, as is elecrical current.
02:58:46 ER: or maybe only negative current
02:59:03 Devastator: well, now I know what higher ranks of 'consume whole' do. ;-p
02:59:28 Devastator: although I could imagine like an omnivore skill that did that.
03:00:30 Devastator: eh, that'd be the follow-up skill after omnivore hits max.
03:01:29 Devastator: then I'd need another one for consuming information and concepts. ;-p
03:02:47 Devastator: but no, that's an amusing idea, but I think I'd rather play with different concepts if anything was indeed possible.
03:03:06 ER: I mean, omnivory is just a normal biological trait of your Morphology, not a Skill :p
03:03:26 ER: but I'd let someone pick up Mundivory as a skill
03:04:32 Devastator: I'll think about it and see how the dice work, then.
03:04:42 Devastator: maybe they'll just say no when I try things and I'll have to go with different routes.
03:07:13 Devastator: conceptivory does sound a bit more entertaining, though. Find something, eat a concept that belongs to it, and then adopt that concept for a time until it's burned through and Moldbin reverts to immaterial columns.
03:09:15 Devastator: but so does learning crafting skills and telekinesis and becoming an intangible tinker poltergeist inventor.
03:09:40 Devastator: or just pursing prediction and being birb oracle.
03:20:59 Devastator: just like having this stuff to think about.
03:21:42 Devastator: plus I can stop annoying
syv with talk about Alida. ;-p
03:22:25 Devastator: Yeah, you were in the dungeon too, were you not?
03:22:36 Devastator: are you hiding somewhere about to jump in, or are you somewhere else?
03:23:14 ER: sophia and ada are... we think close to the rest of you
03:23:38 Devastator: well, we're all in the main arena, so hmm..
03:23:40 ER: in the middle of a lake with duo archers along the edges facing away from us
03:24:02 ER: which are probably the same archers are the ones along the outside of the arena facing inwards
03:24:14 Devastator: okay, that is interesting.
03:24:29 Devastator: It would make sense.
03:24:36 Devastator: odd topology, but it is a dungeon.
03:33:08 Devastator: also, I keep forgetting about the dozen foot knights in the middle of the arena.
03:33:13 Devastator: gah, gonna need more wolves.
03:33:51 ER: they're probably decently vulnerable to Greatarrows.
03:34:01 ER: ...though I can only take one of those at a time.
03:34:09 ER: and there might be more valuable targets.
03:34:20 Devastator: witch might be pretty tough.
03:34:30 Devastator: I think the witch is going to take bigass manabolts.
03:34:59 ER: since the archers are paired, I wonder how they'll react to their buddy getting the brainworm
03:35:40 Devastator: I think their current orders are to shoot any of us who violates the rule of duel.
03:35:54 Devastator: I don't think they'll be too quick to respond to changing circumstances.
03:35:56 ER: I'm pretty sure that immaculate soul lets sophia and ada move freely in that mud, so that'll help brawling with the witch
03:36:02 Devastator: none of the familiars have seemed to be pretty smart.
03:36:08 Devastator: Mob 3 seems to do that, too.
03:36:27 ER: more like Mob 3 compensates for it
03:36:43 ER: mob + immaculate would be better
03:42:40 Devastator: I can update questgame tonight if you want.
03:42:45 Devastator: or can put it off to tomorrow.
03:46:41 Devastator: ..yeah, the foot knights shouldn't be too much trouble. Woof is just too mobile for them, and greatarrows should kick their asses.
03:46:47 Devastator: they're just slow in a big open area.
04:15:39 Devastator: ok. I'll do extinction today.
04:20:01 Devastator: are you limited to one MC target at a time?
04:20:18 Devastator: I mean, couldn't you rewrite a familiar to be loyal to you, and then move onto the next one?
04:20:52 ER: that would require some brain-diving if it's even possible, which takes time
04:21:23 ER: maybe with L3 since that lets you use target's attributes, whcih implies bonus mindfuckery
04:32:47 Devastator:
syv did come up with a very good powersystem.
04:33:20 ER: I'd probably simplify it down to two levels rather than three
04:34:12 Devastator: and less per level, I'm assuimng.
04:35:57 Devastator: fewer skill points per mission.
04:36:34 ER: gaining powers and upgrading powers can be different methods
04:47:13 Devastator: reading a Civ IV pitboss report, where one team just razed multiple core cities of an opponent via three extremely experienced Commando Knights, gotten through about 180 turns of warfare.
04:47:39 Devastator: iow, they were forced to fight three opponents forever, and managed to muster up some extremely veteran troops.
04:48:04 Devastator: Commando lets units use enemy roads, which is very powerful in Civ IV.
04:48:53 Devastator: also, bernard montgomery, the three-move commando knight, a nigh-unheard of unit.
04:50:49 Devastator: my god, though, look at all those towns..
04:50:53 Devastator: so much damage there.
05:18:26 ER: is that what civ 4 looks like
05:50:11 Devastator: Freeman's Web Blag. ;-p
05:50:47 Devastator: he probably would call it 'Game Dungeon', actually. If he was a gamer.
05:52:11 Devastator: (I'm sorry, just mentally that voice will forever be associated with Crazy Freeman.)
05:54:05 Devastator: but yeah, this looks just like the right game for Game Dungeon.
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06:00:10 ER: not sure if I can handle that cheese
06:02:32 syv: "
ER: I'd probably simplify it down to two levels rather than three"
06:03:42 ER: upgrades more impactful, base level can be what the power is *supposed* to do while the upgrade can be something which feels good to add on top of that
06:03:49 ER: ...as opposed to dumbing them down
06:04:52 Devastator: I could see it working either way, personally.
06:05:11 syv: Upgrades are deliberately less impactful to allow for more sense of progression, and more build variety.
06:05:25 syv: I.E. "That's a feature, not a bug"
06:06:02 syv: Dumbing them down for lower levels is an issue... but is kinda just because it's hard to improve things, and some powers are just OP.
06:06:12 syv: Like, what would be the upgrade to Effigy?
06:06:58 Devastator: Level 1: Up to two copies.
06:07:09 Devastator: Upgrade: Big range increase, unlimited copites.
06:07:53 ER: base is body copies, upgrade lets them channel powers
06:07:54 syv: It'd be nice to have the base level powers be just the raw power, with more levels adding on, but I lacked the creativity to do that for all powers while keeping a semblance of balance. >.>
06:08:34 ER: proper balance is hard with what are basically superpowers :p
06:08:36 Devastator: I love the results,
syv.
06:08:38 syv: Disabling powers at level 1 is dumbing it down, and makes it pretty crap, because basic bodies are very weak.
06:08:56 Devastator: Just because I feel
ER's system could also work doesn't make your solution bad.
06:09:10 syv: I know, not worried about it. PS is easily the best system I've ever made.
06:09:20 syv: I'm not trying to argue, I'd genuinely like to refine it.
06:09:28 Devastator: basic bodies can let you live through a one-shot, and can let you look at things from multiple points of view.
06:09:41 Devastator: It's a perfectly good power.
06:09:58 syv: Yeah, that's a point. Giving yourself additional healthbars.
06:10:10 Devastator: hell, I've -done- that already.
06:10:23 syv: Range adjustment is another useful one, which meaningfully changes the usage of the power.
06:10:40 Devastator: admittedly, I'm abusing it with body enhancements at this point, but eh.
06:11:05 ER: *create* bodies in los rather than at touch
06:11:12 syv: Short range means you basically just get extra attacks/arms/healthbar, range increase actually allows you to operate in multiple positions and have a more complex strategy.
06:11:31 ER: have a body double rise out of the floor behind the target ;p
06:11:50 Devastator: I think you create them by walking them out of your already-extant body.
06:11:56 Devastator: which is too cool to stop doing.
06:12:00 syv: I really like that, actually. It turns the power into a mobility tool as well.
06:13:06 ER: I do remember someone showing that in Dishonored 2 you could survive long falls by creating a doppelganger of yourself at the bottom and then plunging attacking it :v
06:13:06 Devastator: .that must be something when the new body is a woof.
06:13:19 Devastator: cinematic fall damage.
06:13:32 ER: complete with looking into your own eyes as you run it through the neck
06:13:58 syv: Landing on a person hurts less than landing on concrete.
06:15:38 syv: Having a two-step system would necessitate differences in how leveling works, IMO. Just less points at chargen, and probably limiting people to only one L2 ability, or even none. Can only get improved versions after you've practiced with the basic.
06:15:57 syv: More meaningfully, witch power rewards would have to be more limited.
06:16:45 syv: Which isn't a bad thing; with this method, level one powers would tend to be more useful and distinctive, which follows well with the lore/aesthetic of inhetiting their soul.
06:17:05 ER: start with some class powers, train to get more, chomp a corrupted core to make them spicy
06:18:14 syv: Having the ability to uniquely modify powers in some fashion would be very cool, but also agony to design.
06:19:22 syv: As for witch rewards, IIRC it's currently at three native levels for everyone who beats the labyrinth, plus one native level and one inherited level for every memory absorbed.
06:19:37 Devastator: uniquely modify powers, hmm..
06:19:54 Devastator: well, I'd like it, but I think it'd be for the worst, actually.
06:19:55 syv: Originally the level 4 mechanic from totems was going to optionally apply to *any power you wanted*
06:20:27 syv: That was abandoned very quickly when I realized how hard it'd be to make level 4s for a lot of powers.
06:21:06 ER: oh yeah, I forgot, what does keep Sophia from mind controlling multiple creatures? since the *upkeep* part of it isn't primary?
06:21:23 syv: IIRC there isn't anything blocking that?
06:21:26 ER: can I grab a new one every turn for mounting costs?
06:21:30 syv: It's just potentially ridiculously expensive.
06:21:38 syv: Or was it automatically recast?
06:22:28 syv: Yeah, I don't think anything blocks that.
06:22:43 ER: well on the bright side turning witch from attempting to control everything in sight would make for a great disaster monster
06:23:11 ER: sounds like asking for an amp incident
06:24:50 Devastator: we can already do amp incidents.
06:25:00 Devastator: that's what going witch is.
06:25:14 ER: Sophia might actually pounce for a "if I'm doomed, I'll take the world with me" move
06:25:18 syv: ...Yes. That's what he's talking about.
06:25:40 syv: Mind controlling everything, with the mounting maintenance costs that implies, could make you go witch *very fast*
06:26:51 ER: hm, a weird little upgrade for MC would be making it count as touch range
06:26:52 Devastator: I think most chars could go witch very fast if they wanted to.
06:27:03 Devastator: MC through someone else?
06:27:31 ER: (because then you'd just MC everything and then drain them with empathy ;p)
06:28:17 ER: it's probably for the best that PS MGs know ahead of time that using a lot of magic goes badly.
06:28:35 ER: if they were ignorant then they'd explode very quickly
06:28:40 syv: Yeah, Pumsy actually doesn't want you to just immediately detonate.
06:28:53 Devastator: because Pumsy loves us?
06:38:14 Devastator: I'll update the quest tomorrow.
06:38:30 Devastator: ..although I gotta admit, I spilled what the theme of this land is to
MJ, and he laughed.
06:42:30 Devastator: It's okay, I doubt you'll ever get it.
06:43:55 Devastator: It doesn't really matter.
06:46:27 syv: I hope you tell us after we leave, then.
06:48:32 Devastator: also, re-reading it the wolf seems to really, really scare people. That some unlisted special effect, or is it simply "natural" for a car-sized animal with monster-movie jaws?
06:49:55 ER: if the horse sized horizantal wolves are domesticated, doesn't that mean they're technically dogs?
06:50:10 Devastator: feel free to call them that.
06:50:32 Devastator: I mean, they're basically inspired by your two choices.
06:54:02 Devastator: so unless you want to give them very different capabilities.. ie, camels, mountain goats, dragons.. it's fine.
06:57:01 ER: saddlehounds are a thing in unsounded's setting, I think they have similar performance to horses, just with more dangerous jaws and probably harder to feed because they like meat.
06:57:33 ER: ...and I don't really want to have to provision specifical saddlehound feed while journying around a ringworld
06:57:52 Devastator: I'm going to handwave that unless you're crossing hazardous terrain.
06:57:57 Devastator: like a desert or mountains or something.
06:58:18 Devastator: and even on hazardous terratin I'm gonna handwave your own food.
06:59:48 syv: Xin is a dullahan. No need to eat~
07:00:10 syv: Although that spares me the fun of describing him shoving food down his esophagus.
07:02:12 Devastator: Doesn't have to eat doesn't mean cannot eat.
07:06:25 Devastator: even if the head isn't well attached, couldn't you put it on enough to get food through the mouth on down?
07:07:06 syv: Of course! Would probably be better than jamming it into the esophagus, which sounds like a good way to clog it.
07:25:27 syv: Xin is less undead, more Black Knight "alive and can't die".
07:25:42 syv: So he should probably be able to eat and digest and such.
07:25:52 syv: It's just that he also wouldn't care about starving.
07:26:33 Devastator: I mgiht have to veto that slightly.
07:26:43 Devastator: in case you want to walk across any ocean seabeds.
07:27:05 Devastator: I'm not going to say you can't ignore stuff like that for a while, just not forever.
07:27:27 ER: he might have to because Rolla knows how to swim and never tires ;p
07:28:32 Devastator: that would significantly extend your swimming range, yes.
07:28:41 Devastator: although the armour kinda hurts.
07:29:53 Devastator: but yeah, if you had the platemail off, you could swim forever.
07:30:07 Devastator: You know, I don't think you guys would need to sleep, if not for the pack animals.
07:30:47 ER: what do you think they do while they're waiting for the animals to rest? :3
07:36:19 ER: *wolf unstraps lower jaw armor and stares off into the distance while planting and wagging armored tail.
07:37:09 Devastator: don't start chasing it.
07:37:13 Devastator: that might take a while to stop.
07:37:15 ER: wait, does having to rely on panting change armor considerations? ...hm, guess the running curse applies to rolla at least
07:37:31 Devastator: yeah, I mean, Rolla's gonna be fine.
07:37:41 Devastator: not going to be any exertion-related issues.
07:37:47 Devastator: but nah, it should be okay if it isn't too hot.
07:37:58 ER: or is termperature regulation a different thing? I mean, I'd expect she still has to breathe and stuff.
07:38:59 Devastator: not being able to sweat is a pretty serious disadvantage when it comes to endurance.
07:39:05 Devastator: humans are really, really great that way.
07:39:19 Devastator: but these are magic vertical wolfs.
07:39:30 Devastator: don't need to worry about stuff they really should have to.
07:39:36 ER: invaded by a force of dog men-at-arms, retreat into the desert so that they have to remove their chin armor to pant, stab them in the upper neck
07:41:46 ER: that's the thing about suits of plate. at that point anywhere you don;t have covered is asking to get stabbed in,
07:43:07 Devastator: Xin doesn't have proper armour, right?
07:50:36 syv: Xin has armor, it's just light.
07:50:48 syv: Maybe something like half-plate.
07:51:17 Devastator: I can invent something.
07:52:25 syv: I was visualizing this, because he's using their weapons.
07:53:10 syv: But the basic idea that I was going for is "Plate armor, but light enough to not interfere with acrobatics"
07:54:02 syv: Maybe with a lot of leather or chain instead of plate, more like just a helm + cuirass + gauntlets, say.
07:54:06 ER: dunno how it works in devland but you can do very loud acrobatics in fullplate
07:54:17 Devastator: Yeah. I've seen some demonstrations.
07:54:21 syv: I'm aware, but it's still heavy.
07:54:23 Devastator: chainmail is much more restrictive.
07:54:38 ER: provided it's fitted right, of course
07:54:45 Devastator: and you aren't tired.
07:55:13 syv: To my understanding it's like doing acrobatics while you have a form-fitting backpack.
07:55:27 syv: You can still *do* most everything, you just have a lot more mass.
07:55:42 ER: easier than a backpack though
07:59:11 syv: How acrobatics in plate compare to a tight backpack.
07:59:27 syv: Weight is more central with the backpack, so it affects limbs less.
07:59:41 syv: But is also less balanced overall.
08:00:29 ER: easier to carry equal weight when it's well distributed, certainly
08:01:21 syv: It's certainly easier to carry stuff in a backpack than in your hands. That's, like, a big reason backpacks are so good.
08:01:24 ER: might be weird having more intertia
08:01:35 syv: And good plate rests a lot of its weight on your torso.
08:07:20 syv: I don't think that's possible anymore, without pumping endurance absurdly high. Even then maybe not.
08:08:14 ER: makes sense though since that's... fullplate armor made from stone with a thickness of like an inch
08:08:56 syv: I am moderately certain it doesn't make sense because it would be impossible to move while wearing it.
08:09:04 syv: Also, it's held together with *metal chains*
08:09:47 ER: well, havel's an angri antimage preacher with close ties to the literal gods
08:10:08 ER: so I guess he gets to say fuck it to a few laws of physics
08:10:52 Devastator: are there laws of physics in Dark Souls?
08:10:57 syv: Havel is the batman of dark souls; he stashed a weapon to kill his closest allies.
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21:39:22 Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
21:39:22 Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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