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01:49:33 Devastator: well, words are interesting.
01:49:40 Devastator: useful but short on animals.
02:09:21 Piecewise_: Is it bad that I probably convinced some guy on twitter that Genies exist?
02:10:11 Devastator: seems as good as anything.
02:10:13 Devastator: I mean, these days..
02:10:18 ER: what's the signifigence of being left over 60 mana?
02:10:54 Devastator: I'd assume rolls to contain it, but with +5 end I'd expect 60 is can't-fail.
02:12:23 ER: he said in discord today that your max is endurance times 10
02:12:31 ER: which would put mine at... 250 :P
02:13:03 ER: also that you can hold more than that but it's unhealthy
02:26:56 ER: technical horizantal wolf sounds amazing
02:27:38 ER: giant wolf cavalry with an HMG mount
02:27:51 Devastator: she's probably strong enough to do it.
02:32:50 ER: Well, you can find the armory if you just run through the base really fast and have a decent Cre
02:33:27 ER: Wolf is unreasonably fast, and Sophia is the only one in the group with decent Cre, so the plan is obvious.
02:43:36 ER: Hmm, is Refuge always an easy escape from labrynths?
03:14:30 ER: "70-80 planets worth of karma"
03:17:39 ER: convoluted observation inbound:
03:18:18 ER: both PM3 and eva end with the main character bacon eggs dogs. One of them ends a lot better than the other.
03:18:46 ER: probably because meguca isn't a huge piece of shit. Now, whaty's that?
03:19:08 ER: "a loving father figure is the best protection against chaos."
03:19:18 ER: end convoluted observation.
04:18:44 Devastator: yes, but she's much more influenced by drunk mother.
04:25:50 Devastator: any suggestion on what artifact(s) to take?
04:28:27 Devastator: any words suggestion?
04:52:40 Devastator: "Armoured boots, regular boots, ridiculous little wizard slippers, and proper bare halfling feet."
04:52:49 Devastator: Also, I think belkar took ranks in Survival!
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06:41:53 syv: The big gulf between Incel and Pink Jesus is definitely Pink Jesus' idyllic home life, yes.
06:42:31 syv: I highly recommend Readers Digest.
06:43:12 syv: And thst conversation Dubs had about Jinns existing is pretty great.
06:49:42 Devastator: Yes, certainly helps.
06:49:53 ER: I'm not quite sure that I comprehend your suggestion for cover rules, but then I did read them just after waking up
06:51:00 ER: for context, my plan is to mostly just assume cover is present and make that the default, because I'd rather not think too hard about positioning and stuff
06:51:05 Devastator: Seems about 45 degrees from normal.
06:51:35 ER: in that context is some weapon or stratedgy works well when cover is present, then that thing will be very good, because cover will tend to be present.
06:52:33 ER: One thing I could do is have no point shot penalty for shooting someone out of cover, sort of like xcom giving bonuses to crit flanked enemies
06:52:47 ER: why am I
ER and not Nyarlathotep
06:52:54 ER: did it not save my settings
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06:59:01 syv: Yeah, it's a classic
syv suggestion.
06:59:31 syv: Basically, you're always in one of two states. Hiding, or overwatching.
07:00:12 syv: If you're hiding, you get full benefit of cover (whatever that is) but when you shoot, you have to count as moving. So you get the move penalty added to your shot DC.
07:00:59 syv: If you're overwatching, you lose cover's benefit, but you get advantage on control rolls and your attacks can interrupt other people's attacks.
07:01:19 syv: If someone is targeted with autofire, they cannot overwatch.
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07:01:29 syv: It's... fairly flawed really.
07:02:32 ER: How about... no penalty to point shot targets out of cover, autofire cancels supression.
07:03:03 ER: That will encourage you to use autofire to support someone else who moves up and takes out the enemy
07:03:57 syv: Point shooting targets is an undefined benefit, and the penalty doesn't really affect inaccurate guns since they already have drastic point shot penalties.
07:04:34 syv: I'm not sure what you mean by "autofire cancels suppression"
07:05:21 syv: Also, FWIW, letting me touch your CQB systems increasingly feels like a mistake. Tactihell worked fine and was fun, and I wasn
07:06:21 syv: Also, yesterday I was contemplating having to-hit rolls with firearms having one skill roll and one dispersion roll, so that shotgun pellets and similar could roll multiples of dispersion without skill affecting them.
07:06:33 ER: with tactihell I basically ignored the giant doc of unorganized rules I made, and then burned out by trying to follow them once.
07:06:48 syv: All of my good system design skills go right out the window when we talk about guns.
07:07:04 syv: This system has 13 stats for guns.
07:07:16 ER: everyone knows that if you aim a shotgun gooder its despersion is less
07:07:16 Devastator: Time to re-zero isn't necessary.
07:07:20 syv: That was after he talked me down a lot, BTW.
07:08:42 syv: Also,
Dev, you joke, but that is actually something I effectively had, spread over multiple stats.
07:08:56 syv: I at one point had considered adding bore axis offset too.
07:09:05 syv: Taking my advice with guns is a bad idea.
07:09:13 ER: ahh, okay, I looked at your suggestion, and I think I understand it
07:09:51 ER: my mind just sees "add move penalty when firing normally in the normal situation" and screams BEGONE JANK!
07:10:21 ER: and I feel like overwatch shouldn't be the default move instead of shoot normally because shooting normall is normal!
07:10:43 syv: There kinda needs to be a way to prevent adding the move penalty because otherwise SMGs are godly.
07:11:53 ER: also, the point shot benefit is defined. If a human takes 4 or more damage to the dead, they fuckin die
07:12:43 ER: also, I forgot that perception is a stat until you mentioned it
07:13:13 ER: I might just... rename that to Intuition and make Intuition not a skill. >.>
07:13:28 ER: because Intu is pretty important with the exploration mechanics
07:14:40 ER: six stats, eight skills. Sounds balanced-ish
07:14:41 syv: If I shoot someone in the head twice with 2 damage, does that count as a kill?
07:15:11 syv: Okay. Maybe the point shot balance thing will work nicely.
07:15:35 ER: see? just have faith in me~
07:17:09 ER: well, I don't really tend to take your advice, but I do send you my gun systems because the ways in which you're wrong do help me think some things out. :V
07:17:23 ER: such as, for example, reinding me that Perception exists!
07:17:38 ER: Stealth isn't an opposed roll, by the way.
07:17:43 syv: That makes me feel a little better.
07:17:52 ER: Unless you're hiding from someone who's looking for you, I guess?
07:18:03 syv: I thought it might not be, but I figured it should be mentioned.
07:18:48 syv: I'm looking at the gun spreadsheet and I'm confused how I made the Customized AR15 almost a straight upgrade over the Dragunov.
07:19:09 ER: I was planning on having only Acremanian firearms available. Is the not-P90 one of those?
07:19:52 ER: And also, would it be appropriate for all of the acremenian pistols and SMGs have attachable supressors?
07:19:53 syv: There's not really any Not-P90 in the game, though the N0 basically uses 5.7x28
07:21:03 syv: You can attach a suppressor to literally anything. Only the smaller pistol, the N42 Lone, would be fully effective without penalty.
07:22:19 syv: There is really nothing preventing you from attaching suppressors to those. Aside from the lack of prebuilt suppressors.
07:23:10 syv: There's 20mm suppressors, you know.
07:23:51 Devastator: that wouldn't even make sense.
07:24:03 syv: I'll admit I don't what "spigot" means in this case.
07:25:07 Devastator: it's a giant spring.
07:25:49 syv: Yeah. I think you could build a suppressor for a spigot mortar.
07:26:04 Devastator: it sticks out the top.
07:26:16 syv: It would remove all benefits of the platform, make it extremely difficult to use, and be heavier than the actual mortar.
07:26:25 syv: But I don't see why you couldn't do it.
07:26:37 syv: Yeah, you attach the base of the suppressor to the baseplate.
07:26:53 syv: Basically you have a suppressor that is an entire barrel.
07:27:13 ER: I'll note that "you can attach a supressor to anything" doesn't really tell me anything about my system
07:27:30 ER: so instead I'll tell you what I'll do and test how much you scream, okay?
07:27:34 syv: Do you *want* me to sperg about how suppressors work
07:28:37 ER: I'll let you buy a supressor with your starting money, and it will make your pistol or smg not as loud. can still be heard, but generally not from across the map.
07:29:08 syv: Yeah, that's fine. That works and makes sense for basically any gun.
07:29:24 syv: Not revolvers, except for the stealth revolver which is already suppressed.
07:29:39 ER: ah. so should it be fore rifles etc too?
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07:30:19 syv: Yeah. I'd suggest making it add +1 move pen to anything it's attched to, just so it isn't a straight upgrade.
07:30:57 syv: But yeah, most modern pictures of snipers, they have suppressors on their rifles, because there's very little reason *not* to use one. If you can get a good one.
07:31:26 ER: is there someone wrong with something that costs money being a straight upgrade? Especially when it doesn't effect stats?
07:31:28 syv: And they do benefit snipers a lot, namely by hiding muzzle flash very effectively.
07:32:10 syv: Not really, it's just a general game design thing to make stuff have tradeoffs.
07:32:28 syv: It's also a little boring if everyone just adds suppressors to everything
07:33:03 Devastator: Maybe have them wear out.
07:33:13 ER: I mean, they would mostly be useful if everyone had one.
07:36:34 ER: damn, I forgot where I was editing the rules. was I done with what I wanted to do?
07:36:34 Devastator: no guns wearing out?
07:37:11 ER: ... shouldn't matter when the game will consist of what? 2 dozen enemies?
07:37:44 syv: This list was partly balanced around gun reliability. Which doesn't exist in the system, and judging from my own attempts, *should not* exist in the system.
07:38:00 syv: It totally would if the suppressors were realistic, which they shouldn't be.
07:38:35 syv: Design varies a lot but there are suppressors (the most effective unsurprisingly) which will wear out in ten shots.
07:39:10 ER: I'm sure there are ones which you'd get one shot out of :P
07:39:20 syv: And even the most durable will not withstand consistent automatic fire with full power ammo, which is not unreasonable for two dozen enemies.
07:43:00 Devastator: That's a long burst.
07:43:53 syv: That is no longer a burst.
07:44:08 syv: I don't care how they describe it.
07:44:25 Devastator: man, morons in youtube commentary. '5.56mm isn't designed to kill.'
07:45:33 Devastator: so what do you call it?
07:50:13 ER: (~tumbling down tumbling down tumbling down~)
07:53:35 ER: thesis: pink jesus wouldn't make everyone into organe soda, because she has parents
07:54:23 Devastator: no, only shoots magical girls with arrows.
07:55:13 syv: I dunno. Put me in an environment.
07:57:44 ER: you mean, start running a game for just you?
08:00:44 ER: I asked because that's something I'm not going to do just now, because I am *actively* working on some stuff for a 5-player game :P
08:01:15 ER: is that not what you were expecting me to do?
08:02:05 ER: I'm always happy to run something in IRC, though it might distract me from completing the last 2 components of this
08:04:43 ER: no, that's the stuff I already have :P
08:18:30 ER: should I write... *sigh* melee mechanics?
08:20:06 syv: (Why not? Melee weapons would basically just be guns with only a CQB range, zero move pen, and probably good damage modified by str.)
08:37:51 ER: okay, melee got 6 stats. me happy :P
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08:57:47 ER: man, it's satisfying to copy a gun stat block and then just erase the stats marked N/N
08:58:04 ER: it's like, don't gotta worry about that shit any more!
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09:16:54 syv: "You may choose to attack multiple times in a turn by performing a Flurry. This costs stamina for each attack in the flurry, and each attack is rolled seperately."
09:17:13 syv: Flurry cost listed for the combat knife is 2.
09:17:33 syv: That reads, to me, like you can get an addition four attacks out of combat knife by spending eight stamina,
09:18:04 syv: When I thiiink it's meant to mean you can spend two stamina to get four additional attacks.
09:19:22 ER: Costs 10 stamina to do 5 attacks
09:19:33 ER: The first one costs too, you know
09:23:13 syv: Wow, that seems rather expensive.
09:24:02 ER: well, it's easy to hit with and does a total of 15 damage if they all hit
09:24:17 ER: which is enough to kill any human, if no armor
09:24:40 ER: I'm fine with using a knife to nuke someone, but it should leave you exhausted
09:25:13 ER: (and if you miss 1 it's enough to kill any human without max Vitality)
09:27:26 syv: I suggest making it ignore ballistic armor. Both because that's fairly realistic, and because it's somwhat balanced. And cool.
09:29:16 ER: Realistic to ignore armor designed for bullets, yeah. Which is most likely what's useful and used in the setting, yeah. :P
10:01:22 Devastator: Side-story, so I don't absolutely have to watch it now.
10:03:27 Devastator: I need to play Lance Cashpants sometime. Just the name.
10:27:32 ER: welp, I think that's done except for the items
10:29:57 ER:
syv, could I have your permission to just copy-paste the descriptions of the acremenian guns from you? :V
10:33:18 ER: huh, should the autofire from the 2-shot burst pistol count for supression stuff?
10:48:28 syv: I apparently changed the stats in the doc later on. I've got four versions of the doc with successive changes.
10:48:56 ER: I'm using a PM you sent me. At some point.
10:49:18 syv: Yeah, Great Arsenal of
Syv
10:49:36 syv: That's fine, the changes are for the most part minor IIRC. Just me eternally tinkering with the balance.
11:07:35 ER: The Jagged is described as being signifigantly lighter than the Parlous, so should I make it Large rather than Very Large like it's cousin?
11:10:55 ER: do you remember the stats for that MGL? :V
11:26:24 syv: Specialist: V.67. Revolver grenade launcher, sniper weight. Meh accuracy, semiauto (DC 14, x3 shots), six rounds. Loads only two per turn.
11:29:12 syv: So prolly 11/12/14 accuracy, 3-4 move pen
11:31:24 syv: Man, making the shotgun revolver double action is dumb. If there's any SA revolver, and there should be one, that's it.
11:34:23 ER: what were the ballistic armor tiers? 3 / 5 / 7?
11:37:51 syv: 7 is basically juggernaut armor, by the by.
11:38:13 syv: 5 is probably, like, quadguard.
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12:03:31 ER: I think I just finished this...
12:04:06 ER: want a game where an outer god tells you to go kill some scrubs in a mansion in the woods?
12:06:20 syv: How's that game you mentioned coming along?
12:08:10 ER: was I going to buy a fighter jet from you this turn,
syv?...
12:08:29 syv: Can you afford one? Because if so, yes.
12:09:24 syv: At minimum, cost is 200, and honestly it should be more like 250 since I can only immediately sell you a buffed plane.
12:09:43 syv: But in the interest of teamwork I'll give you the 200 cost plane just so we can field more planes.
12:10:09 syv: *Give you the buffed plane at 200 cost
12:10:56 syv: That's the manufacturing cost BTW, since I'm actually broke.
12:30:24 syv: Wow you have a lot of cash.
12:30:42 syv: Why the second listening post?
12:32:43 ER: becausing having more helps
12:33:35 ER: my budget shooted way up, then went back down because I was literally useless
12:33:44 ER: but I still have my cash, suckers!
12:34:12 ER: gonna spend it on growth and the bare minimum of weapons which are effective right now
12:34:53 ER: If you don't see anything blatantly wrong with it, I'll go ahead and post it.
12:52:13 ER: huh. there are EXACTLY 2 dozen enemies
12:58:14 syv: I think I'd make the lethal grenades 1 mony, since they can miss and aren't guaranteed kills even if they hit.
12:58:55 syv: Well, frag's not guaranteed...
12:59:30 syv: If I take a V67, do I have infinite grenades, or did I miss reload price somewhere?
13:00:47 syv: Yup, that's all I have to say. Looks good.
13:02:01 ER: I'd probably let you have infinite grenades, or at least infinite until you've gone through a massive pile of the things and you roll bad luck :P
13:03:17 syv: Hmm, helmet + light armor + suppressor costs 3.
13:03:24 ER: yeah, made lethal grenades cheaper
13:04:00 syv: No P90 so can't play gasmask squirrel, which means autoshotty ninja is the next best thing.
13:09:15 ER: you can use a P90 if you mod it in yourself :V
13:10:03 ER: as the newly edited OP says, additional items are available upon request ;v
13:11:37 syv: Can I have one of Sovereign's V55s then? ;P
13:13:04 ER: I might ask the price go up a little comparatively, because it's "exotic" to this part of the world, but I would let you
13:13:26 syv: Nah, I'm gonna use something from the base armory. That's more fair to the other players.
13:17:03 ER: gods, the longest moment is the time between posting an OP and someone replying to to, after thinking about that OP for hours.
13:17:49 syv: I'll post once I've found and run my CVCVCVCVCVC namegen program.
13:25:49 syv: Seem to have lost it, sigh
13:25:50 GameServ: Some names to ponder: Naydd, Vadrik, Geldgursa, Raldtyn, Houleraaineth, Wyaldywarty, Valdaynegayndy, Gelywartywat, Vardiamientyn, Kolquintinro, Synlocar, Ocquentelydd, Urer, Horcathyn, Houlzane, Baeeraber, Nevcoddarthnik, Nyereque, Delriksa, Pesdothalenalen.
13:31:55 syv: I have one money left over and I'd rather buy drugs than a grenade.
13:32:03 ER: ugh. drugs are always a problem...
13:32:15 ER: what would you like them to do?
13:38:52 ER suddenly remembers that he forgot to give any enemies armor
13:39:20 ER: yeah, a few of them probably deserve it.
13:48:49 ER: well, now [REDACTED], so have fun with that.
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23:51:49 Devastator: thanks for the orders.
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