00:30:39 Devastator: dive to ground level and hide in the grass, clearly.
00:31:01 ER: nobody made any specific orders to do that
00:31:08 Devastator: I didn't think they'd be necessary.
00:31:29 ER: you're also playing as a newborn here
00:32:06 ER: you could have gotten away with it if you rolled better, but I'd prefer not to think on your character's behalf~
00:32:57 Devastator: yeah, a 3 is pretty bad.
00:33:05 Devastator: there might also have been branches and such.
00:33:11 Devastator: 3 might just mean 'nothing's here'
00:34:46 ER: nah, this area is all short grass
00:35:39 Devastator: so plenty of room then?
00:35:40 ER: but all the grass is below you now
00:36:09 ER: and bee didn't think of it on her own in 1/5th phase while being shot at
00:38:14 Devastator: well, gave those orders.
02:17:49 ER: the problem with having a game with plenty of players and simple writing and mechanics is that it's possible to update it very quickly.
02:17:57 ER: which means that you *should*.
03:49:41 ER: (I should be more positive like this clam.)
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03:53:16 Devastator: so better or worse than usual?
03:53:20 ER: well just channel that misery into writing memories and we'll be fine
03:54:04 syv: That's not how it works you little shit.
03:54:59 Devastator: Yes, a well known quote.
03:57:08 ER: though, where's it from...?
03:57:22 Devastator: dunno where before that.
03:59:33 Devastator: The thing I like about bunnycat is that he has absolutely no change in pose or facial expression.
03:59:52 Devastator: That could be 'YES YES Make a contract with me" and it'd be the same picture.
04:00:16 syv: It's from a comic where one of the MGs (Pink, I think) asks to make a wish that was a standard gordian knot style wish. More wishes or something.
04:00:24 ER: well that's pretty much true of most animals
04:00:37 Devastator: "I wish for more wishes."
04:00:48 ER: pumsy would never be so rude, right?
04:04:09 ER: I wish that I won't regret wasting this wish.
04:04:44 ER: see, now there's the best wish
04:05:26 ER: actually, probably want to wish for not regretting the action of wishing in general
04:06:49 Devastator: Alida: "I wish my family had enough money." "Poof" "Alida finds herself to now be an only child."
04:07:27 syv: *Poof* Alida's siblings are now made of solid gold.
04:09:26 Devastator: all wishes end in is sad?
04:09:42 syv: No, most wishes end in boredom.
04:10:06 Devastator: the good ones end in is sad?
04:10:50 ER: Sophia's wish was... uh, pretty unhelpful
04:11:16 syv: Yeah. Make a better one next time.
04:12:07 Devastator: well, die, and then there will be a next time.
04:15:19 syv: Meet ward > Mind control > second wish
04:15:47 Devastator: Maybe that's how the super-witch got to be super-witch.
04:22:22 ER: how had I not thought of that, actually
04:23:18 ER: though it also sounds like the kind of thing that might provoke Pumsy into saying "that's not how it works you little shit"
04:23:29 Devastator: I don't know what Pumsy would do.
04:24:27 syv: Has Pumsy ever cursed before?
04:24:59 ER: also he passed out when I cursed around him so
04:33:21 ER:
syv, if I make a tactical combat system will you fill it with guns for me?
04:33:55 ER: we sell SVDs and SVD accessories
04:34:19 syv: I have a list of 44 guns organized by role and manufacturer, Borderlands style, and it's loose enough to adapt into many systems.
04:34:23 Devastator: oh, tachell updated.
04:34:26 Piecewise: Did you see the video I linked all the way up there by the way
sy?
04:34:54 syv: Yes, probably. The one where they fire a cartridge, then just show lots of e3 cringe clips?
04:35:06 syv: No,
ER. Most are based on real guns though.
04:35:19 Piecewise: The firing of the entire cartridge was amusing.
04:35:42 ER: here at apature science, we fire the WHOLE bullet
04:35:42 Piecewise: I have a book called the Compendium of contemporary weapons from Palladium
04:35:56 Devastator: Also,
ER, I need your birbgame orders.
04:36:05 ER: that's not helpful because I just want
syv to do the work for me
04:36:28 syv: I think I might've seen that? Which system is it for? I don't know Palladium's products, offhand.
04:37:18 Piecewise: I think its system agnostic to a point, it doesn't have any specific setting stuff as far as I've seen
04:37:24 Piecewise: Though it did point me to this
04:37:36 Piecewise: Which looks like a tommy gun as made by a drunk man
04:37:52 syv: Noo, the one I'm thinking of is GWD Games, apparently...
04:39:14 Piecewise: There's actually a copy of it there
04:39:32 Devastator: If it's aussie, it probably is a tommy gun as made by a drunk man.
04:40:34 Piecewise: "I couldn't find the iron sight, see? So I just...*hic*..stuck the magazine there instead. It'll work fiiiine."
04:40:59 ER: aiming is for pussies anyways
04:42:18 Devastator: Aiming is for people who don't have enough bullets.
04:43:04 ER: yeah but what if we just shot lots of bullets, all accurate?
04:43:33 Devastator: Then a single MG could block them all with CC4.
04:44:48 Piecewise: You don't need body armor, jus tshoot the bullets out of the air
04:45:27 ER: if CC4 can block you aren't not using big enough bullets
04:47:19 Devastator:
syv, I know CC4 allows the parrying of bullets.
04:47:24 Devastator: What would you think the upper limit to that would be?
04:47:36 Devastator: Could you parry a CIWS?
04:48:58 syv: Depends on what your totem is. And... range, I guess? I thought CIWS was super inaccurate, more about throwing what amounts to a net of bullets, that go everywhere, rather than a bunch of bullets that hit accurately.
04:49:37 syv: I seriously wonder why this book put a scope on the MP5, but not any of the earlier SMGs.
04:49:39 Devastator: Usually pretty accurate and super fast.
04:49:55 Devastator: Are there pictures?
04:50:01 Devastator: maybe that was just the one available.
04:50:20 Piecewise: That version is actually older than the one I have
04:50:32 Piecewise: Lemme check if mine still has the mp5 scope
04:52:23 syv: "Rifles". First two pages include a GPMG, AR, BRs, and SRs. Mixed randomly.
04:52:55 Devastator: Rifles are a pretty broad category..
04:53:14 Piecewise: Also this was written before the internet so they had to use primary sources and ask people and shit
04:53:21 Piecewise: and people are inaccurate
04:53:50 Devastator: Because the internet is also inaccurate.
04:53:59 Piecewise: Yes but there's a lot more of it
04:54:07 Piecewise: so you can check more sources
04:54:22 Piecewise: as opposed to just getting your info from the guy running the army surplus store or whatever
04:54:35 syv: Ahhh. See, that makes this a lot more understandable. Though, honestly, lumping ALL those into one category is just stupid. ARs are closer operationally to SMGs than SRs, and any competent soldier should be able to say that much.
04:55:08 Piecewise: I mean...its probably good enough for general RPG stuff
04:55:21 Piecewise: its a big gun what go bang bang relatively fast
04:58:37 syv: ..Hahaha, WHAT? I haven't been reading the actual words because they're tiny, and I just did for a couple of the SRs. The PSG-1, probably the *most* accurate semiauto SR of its time, is listed as having an effective range of 400 meters. The SVD, an older rifle that was never a particularly accurate weapon, is listed as having an effective range of 1300 meters.
04:58:59 syv: I have no idea how you could possibly get those numbers, I mean what?
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05:02:37 ER: sophia's sawnoff is a rifle
05:03:50 syv: By the most literal definition it actually is. It's rifled, now.
05:05:26 syv: It was originally smoothbore, and became rifled after Sophia ate Isabella, IIRC.
05:06:51 Devastator: Will that happen to the rest of us?
05:07:08 ER: wonder what about Isabella causes that
05:07:31 ER: the chained scimitar wasn't engraved at all, was it?
05:08:59 ER: don't you know that this isn't good for shotgun?
05:09:13 Devastator: so it made it worse?
05:09:22 ER: maybe she just really wants me to use slugs?
05:09:45 ER: are the shells I have slugs? Sophia probably can't tell...
05:10:14 Devastator: Probably not if they're random.
05:11:38 Devastator: Where'd you get the shells?
05:12:35 ER: I forgot if I found a box of those
05:13:36 syv: You did. I think it was two boxes, I have it written down somewhere.
05:14:30 Devastator: Most likely not slugs, but slugs wouldn't be impossible.
05:15:28 ER: is my auto shotty smoothbore?
05:21:33 syv: The standard model seems to be smoothbore, so yes.
05:28:28 Devastator: (no birbgame orders.)
05:28:59 syv: I could send orders for Birdgame, but I know they wouldn't matter.
05:29:14 Devastator: I wouldn't mind giving you an update on the situation.
05:29:25 Devastator: could do that now if you'd like.
05:42:27 ER: kinda wish scribe had more keep-hold
05:42:41 ER: so that I could give him more cool shit for dying
05:43:29 ER: because bird cultist is the perfect mage class but I can't give him much magic at 3/3 corruption
05:44:01 syv: Oh, so higher KH *DOES* give more powers at full demon?
05:44:20 Devastator: I suppose you only gain power through dying, so if you can die more, you get more powers.
05:44:37 ER: I think you asked it in a wierd way earlier, like comparing 3/3 to 4/3
05:45:22 syv: So what were you saying earlier about that gun game,
ER
05:45:42 syv: Got anything for me? An estimate on when you will, mayhaps?
05:47:30 ER: I'll probably try to make a usable tactical system, ask you to fill it with cool guns, do a test game with just the normal mechanics, then add magic bullcrap for FMD
05:48:02 syv: This sounds wonderful and I eagerly look forward to its completion!
05:48:20 ER doesn't know what it's doing
05:48:30 syv: And I didn't even need to make you watch Black Hawk Down.
05:48:50 syv: Don't worry, you can't do any worse than
Aigre.
05:49:14 ER: I probably could if I tried
05:50:58 syv: I'm honestly not sure if *I* could, even trying.
Aigre's systems have a special mixture of misguided insanity and actuarial fetishism, and it's hard to replicate.
05:51:00 ER: would it be too unreasonable for ballistic armor to act as DR?
05:51:34 ER: like take 1d6 from a pistol, reduced by 3 because of ballistic armor
05:51:36 syv: I have a lot of words that I'd like to say here, but "no" suffices.
05:51:52 Devastator:
Aigre's systems are utter madness.
06:00:17 Devastator: I wish I had his help with battlemobs.
06:00:34 Devastator: might not have burned out if he'd help with the numbers on turn resolution.
06:10:33 syv: Write rules by not fucking up. When that isn't enough, imitate.
06:10:52 Devastator: When that isn't enough, steal.
06:11:35 ER: I mean, how do I effectively put down the EXCELLENT, PERFECTLY FUNCTIONAL rules I have in my head into text in such a way that people are able to understand?
06:12:17 syv: Type down something that vaugely resembles them, send them to me, I'll ask questions, answer those questions.
06:12:36 Devastator: ignore that and write about stabbing things.
06:13:15 Devastator: I do like how "Bird Facts" just says [bird] below it.
06:14:56 Devastator: Hmm, half the clay vanished.
06:15:09 Devastator: Nah, last time I asked some you didn't give any answers, so ima just gonna speculate.
06:15:15 ER: kinda needs me to copy some of TH's guts into it, but nevigating TH's guts is actually hard
06:15:40 ER: (asking if
syv has questions ;P)
06:15:42 Devastator: Can the guy put the 3 statups into Keep Hold?
06:16:08 ER: you don't get questions, you're not in TH~
06:16:28 Devastator: well, it's a fair question..
06:16:39 Devastator: because if you get one stat per corruption point, you could concievably keep it up forever.
06:17:11 ER: It's not like hell is going to reincarnate you when you're already a demon
06:17:48 Devastator: so yes, but no point in doing so if you max it.
06:22:01 syv: Questions: what's base vitality/resolve/lucidity/stamina? How do firearms work? Is recoil a thing? Mobility? Damage? Accuracy?
06:23:01 ER: base vit is 4 for adults, and can go up to 5 for very fit people.
06:23:10 syv: Does item weight matter? How does speed work?
06:23:35 ER: resolve, lucidity, stamina... uh, 4 base is good
06:23:57 ER: firearms shoot people and then they die, hopefully
06:26:16 ER: item weight... let's see, maybe add an extra digit from TH, every 10 units you lose 1 stamina
06:28:15 ER: carefully aiming with a firearm before shooting gives a real hefty bonus to hit, +2 or +3
06:28:39 syv: Some method of making recoil matter would be a good idea, if you want me to make the gunlist. Same for accuracy.
06:29:42 ER: 3d6 doesn't really like having too many modifiers to rolls...
06:36:57 ER: what does recoil really mean in a PbP system?
06:37:27 syv: Like most numbers, really. :P
06:38:40 ER: then someone like you shows up and figures out which build has the best numbers
06:38:53 syv: Accuracy can be handled by range increments; accurate guns can shoot farther without penalties. Recoil is harder, especially if it has no stat relevance, but can easily work as a RoF mechanic that's mitigable with equipment or tactics. All guns have max RoF/min recoil with a bipod, say.
06:39:58 syv: Alternatively, a risk/reward mechanic. "Autofire gives an acc penalty tied to recoil. If you're really really accurate, this may be worth it." I'd just tie it to poise, though.
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15:45:51 Devastator: still sleepy, so going back to bed.
15:52:00 Devastator: am wondering if I'm missing something obvious about the crashed airship.
15:52:12 Devastator: other than the cannons, which seem ok but I don't really want too much.
15:53:50 Piecewise: I mean, sometimes there just aren't things you'd like
15:54:06 Piecewise: Its basically a clockwork warship, if you don't want clockwork then its not got much
15:55:07 Devastator: I mean, a clockwork word would be nice, but I don't have room for that too.
15:55:55 Piecewise: Probably won't find it in those things
15:56:05 Piecewise: they're pretty anti-magic, in a way
15:57:11 Devastator: had the magic removed from them?
15:57:32 Devastator: or because theres no life?
16:01:28 Devastator:
RC with the last minute orders.
19:44:59 Devastator: Going to be fun bookkeeping, as to who has what.
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19:56:56 syv: "[The OCSW] it had the same laser targeting system as the XM29 OICW, but was intended to supplement the 40 mm Mk 19 grenade launcher and the .50 M2 Browning machine gun."
19:58:04 syv: I think this might mean the US military was trying to create a crew-served dual-purpose .50 BMG and 40mm autocannon.
19:58:21 syv: Unsurprisingly, it very much failed, but thw concept is hilarious all the same
19:58:33 Devastator: They seem different roles.
19:58:50 Devastator: or maybe they just had lots of the targetting systems.
19:59:42 syv: They are, and they aren't. Both do have the role of "fuck over everyone and everything in that general direction", with one just being a bit more indiscriminate, but combining the two doesn't really serve much purpose, yeah.
20:00:13 Devastator: Well.. one you can move with a few soldiers on foot.
20:00:57 Devastator: 40mm autocannon isn't really manportable.
20:01:05 Devastator: oh, a 40mm grenade launcher.
20:01:18 syv: Sure it is. About the same weight as the M2.
20:01:43 Devastator: very different things, those.
20:02:27 syv: They were calling the OCSW an autocannon, which got me mixed up. I don't really see why, it's a GMG as far as I can tell.
20:07:02 syv: But yeah, they were probably just trying to adapt the XM29's airburst tech to be usable with 40mm and .50 BMG, which is kinda odd since I don't think .50 could really work as an airbursting explosive, but hey. It'd be scary if it worked.
20:08:05 syv: Ahh, I see. The .50 gun can convert to the 40mm airbursting gun with only a few changed parts.
20:17:35 Devastator: What kind of guns are those,
Piecewise? Just cannon? And if so, how large?
20:18:13 Piecewise: Mostly machineguns. Think WWII bomber guns
20:20:18 Devastator: way more useful and valuable than cannon.
20:24:52 syv: Are they mountable on Benedict?
20:25:04 Devastator: Machine guns? Most definately.
20:25:09 Devastator: he's elephant-sized.
20:25:47 syv:
Piecewise, how much ammo is there?
20:27:47 Devastator: Well, I have giant bird, should be able to just rip them out, lack of tools or no.
20:28:10 syv: Mmm. Could they be man-portable with sufficient strength/modifications?
20:28:22 Devastator: I have a Grow and Strenghten spell, so yes.
20:28:36 syv: Tempted to rejoin Cabal just to play a gunner character who teams up with Saeko.
20:29:07 Devastator: Well, there's going to be a few mercs in the town I'm going to.
20:29:15 Piecewise: I'm honestly surprised you aren't still playing.
20:29:15 Devastator: no reason one of said mercs can't be a mage.
20:30:42 syv: I lost interest when my entire team and the only real opposition team both dissolved, because manipulating NPCs is harder and less interesting. Since then I just haven't read up on the game to resume.
20:31:24 syv: I've been meaning to for a long time, because SOMEONE should try for conquest, but time management isn't a skill I have.
20:31:30 Piecewise: We had a combo paddleboat/breaking wheel
20:31:52 Piecewise: And
RC got lost in caves for like 6 months
20:32:13 syv: ...Breaking wheel? Like the torture/execution device? In a... paddleboat...?
20:32:30 Devastator: I've been wandering around having
PW wonder why I'm not actively trying to gain power. ;-p
20:32:35 Piecewise: Yes, the paddles were giant breaking wheels that had pirates executed on them
20:32:51 Devastator: Oh, and you had slime town destroyed.
20:33:47 Piecewise: Lenglon got a weapon of godly strength and so far has used it mostly as a fire extinguisher
20:42:13 Devastator: Also, what's a gyrotourbillon?
20:45:47 syv: As far as I can tell from some quick googling, a marketing tactic made by a watch company to make their watches sound fancier.
20:49:32 Piecewise: I mean, honestly anything that isn't a 4 dollar digital watch is a marketing tactic to make watches sound fancier and cost more
20:49:58 Devastator: so just a thing for show or is there use on it?
20:50:50 Piecewise: its the time keeping element
20:51:25 syv: Yeah. A tourbillon is a device that rotates segments of the watch which I don't understand, to minimize the effects of gravity on them when held in certain ways. It works because all the parts are constantly rotated, averaging out the effects of gravity on all the pieces. Normal tourbillons are two-dimensional; flat, rotating around one axis. A gyrotourbillon rotates around two axes, and is more spherical. This comes at dubious benefit, as
20:51:27 Piecewise: The gyro just means it spins around and looks fancy
20:52:23 Devastator: should be very ornate.
20:52:26 Piecewise: I'm sure they say it has benefits but I wouldn't be surprised if its a tiny fractional benefit over the course of years
20:52:32 syv: The wikipedia page at one place says it's three axis, actually. Later says the "gyrotourbillon I" was two axis. Maybe both are true.
20:52:59 Piecewise: but most watches that have it cost as much as a car so...
20:53:17 Devastator: I can get the pellets out of the boiler, but radioactivity sucks.
20:53:25 syv: I wonder if it counts seconds more accurately than my phone.
20:54:01 Piecewise: I assume that phones are hooked up to atomic clocks
20:54:18 Devastator: they just double check one all the time.
20:54:30 Piecewise: yes but the source they're double checking
20:54:46 Piecewise: I'm pretty sure GPS uses atomic clocks
20:54:48 Devastator: Is a NTP signal of some kind.
20:55:02 Piecewise: I get what you're doing here
Dev
20:56:09 Piecewise: Where is my wrist mounted atomic clock?
20:56:40 Devastator: so your phone doesn't have one.
20:57:20 Piecewise: I mean, they say one the size of a pack of cards costs 3000
20:57:49 Piecewise: Now enter gyrotourbillon into google's shopping search
20:57:57 Devastator: didn't know about those.
20:58:07 syv: Yeah, I just checked to be sure, I would be super surprised if my phone had an atomic clock. Androids (what I use) apparently just have an internal quartz clock, and check it against the cellular network's clock. Which I presume is checked against an atomic clock somewhere down the line.
20:58:13 Devastator: I think the article says the previous ones were the size of a pack of cards and cost 3000.
20:58:19 Devastator: so these are smaller.
20:58:46 Piecewise: The first return for a watch with a gyrotourbillon is 294,000.000
20:58:55 Piecewise: I doubt its more expensive than that
20:59:12 Devastator: Military project, though.
20:59:18 Devastator: lotta guys padding the cost there, usually.
21:00:46 Piecewise: Doing my first dosimetry shadowing on tuesday
21:03:18 syv: I found an article which is saying that the tourbillon is probably just around useless, and possibly negative, due to it requiring a heavier mainspring to rotate the larger assembly. This implies a gyrotourbillon, if anything, would be worse than a regular tourbillon for the purposes of accurate timekeeping.
21:03:31 syv: So it's essentially a masturbatory device for watchmakers.
21:04:14 Piecewise: but it does look nice doesn't it?
21:04:20 Piecewise: and it is valuable treasure
21:04:38 syv: Meh. Would work better if it had tits.
21:05:00 Devastator: Probably try to pack up two or three machine guns, then the gyrotourbillon.
21:05:09 Devastator: then maybe try for the radioactive pellets.
21:05:32 Devastator: Benedict could probably take a lot, yeah.
21:05:43 Devastator: but I don't know how many I can rip out semi-intactly.
21:05:48 Devastator: my birb is not a precision instrument.
21:06:09 syv: What animals is it a hybrid of?
21:06:19 Devastator: cougar/red-tailed hawk.
21:12:10 Devastator: The MG's also need modification.
21:12:17 Devastator: they're fired by something.
21:13:26 syv:
Piecewise, are the MGs clockwork or propellant based?
21:13:46 Devastator: propellant, presumably.
21:13:54 Devastator: clockwork doesn't reall work for bullets.
21:14:05 Devastator: There's no trigger, though.
21:14:14 syv: He's made games with clockwork-only guns, before.
21:15:15 syv: Also, your character is a magical girl who rides an elephant-sized gryphon. I bet clockwork guns work. :P
21:16:05 Devastator: She can't be a MG because she does not sparkle.
21:17:15 Piecewise: The actual clockwork guns that group use are rather different
21:21:32 Devastator: Hmph, nah, passing on the pellets. I'd want a steel word to make a proper box.. don't have a container ready.
21:23:44 Devastator: or the magic to make oen.
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21:24:54 Devastator: Also, any idea what the woven fabric might be,
syv?
21:25:11 syv: You could just make a giant tumor of ape flesh to contain the pellets.
21:25:20 Devastator: and yes, that'd work.
21:25:25 syv: Water is great at absorbing radiation, and flesh is mostly water.
21:25:26 Devastator: still need mana to do that, though.
21:25:28 Devastator: 1 mana isn't enough.
21:25:48 syv: No clue what you're referring to with "woven fabric"
21:27:42 Devastator: Oh, it's not fabric.
21:27:54 Devastator: "some kind of odd metal that kind of looks like woven black fabric but is as hard as steel."
21:28:08 Devastator: is that black biometal?
21:30:09 Devastator: Go yell at Kit in Tactical Hell to pick the new stats.
21:33:33 syv: Sounds kinda like biometal, yeah. Or battleplate from
ER. Kinda ambiguous really.
21:36:10 Devastator: I thought that was a composite.
21:37:07 syv: Don't think so, it was woven with some scifi reflective metal strands IIRC. Hex composite was composite, but was entirely different stuff.
21:38:09 Devastator: Hex composite was space magic, so it could do everything.
21:38:14 syv: "The first three are made of some sort of metal meta-material which has been mixed with untold thousands of hair thin metallic fibers, like fiberglass. These fibers are so prevalent and reflective that they cause lasers to deflect and have difficulty focusing on an specific point, acting as insulation as well as greatly reinforcing the metal. "
21:38:36 syv: It was all scifi magic, really.
21:38:44 Devastator grumbles about how you guys never needed an upgrade..
21:39:29 syv: We didn't really get upgrades, our armor mostly made us invincible unless we got hit with fiat attacks, and our attacks mostly killed whatever we shot unless it was fiat tough.
21:40:09 syv: Things getting cheaper were the only true upgrades, and generally they got more expensive unless they were things
PW just threw at us.
21:40:34 Devastator: or people were pulling accounting tricks.
21:41:25 syv: If you want to accuse Ao of corruption, go right ahead. He might find it a little odd, being accused of corruption in a forum game years after the fact, but it's not problem.
21:41:35 Devastator: Wasn't thinking of Ao there.
21:41:52 syv: But he was our accountant! What, is Radio the root of all evil now?
21:41:59 Devastator: Nah, it wasn't either of them.
21:42:19 Devastator: Who was the guy who wanted to take the combo-suits apart and reduce the price by the price of all the component parts?
21:43:12 syv: Uhhh. I don't recall that... do you mean the MK.3's rocket packs? I think there was an attempt to sell just the flight bits, yeah. Sean did most of that work, but generally wanted to make more intriciate combo suits, rather than divide it up.
21:45:44 syv: Honestly, that's pretty reasonable. The MK3 had a bunch of features aside from the rocket packs, reducing the price a bit just for the flight capability wasn't at all unreasonable. Though, again, I think he ended up trying to add armor to it by default, rather than just selling the flight.
21:46:07 Devastator: It wasn't that, it was the more expensive assaultsuit varients.
21:46:16 Devastator: take a 10 token gun out, cut the price by 10 to 30.
21:46:23 Devastator: take another 7 token feature out, call it 23.
21:46:38 Devastator: repeat until you have a blank assaultsuit for like 5 tokens.
21:47:23 Devastator: or -5 tokens or something like that.
21:47:55 syv: Ohhh. Yeah, that. That's because of how
Piecewise handled combo packs. If you spend 20 tokens on a bunch of ten token stuff, you'd get like 60 tokens worth of ten token items. That was why a full battlesuit came with five layers of armor and a giant robot body, when just one layer of human-sized BS plate was like 10 tokens.
21:48:43 syv: There was never any attempt to sell a stripped BS for five tokens. Most egregious thing was the HRB, 100% my idea, and the price savings came from armoring just a braincase rather than an entire cockpit/
21:48:55 syv: It was also a fair bit more expensive than that.
21:49:10 Devastator: Maybe it didn't get approved, then. I remember arguing about it a bunch.
21:49:31 Devastator: I do remember it wasn't a BS. It was the better, cheaper, more magical AS.
21:50:11 Devastator: Nothing came of it anwyay.
21:50:25 syv: Yeah, yeah, the HRB was a shrunken AS. AS and BS were functionally the same thing anyway, despite all the magic.
21:51:21 syv: The only relevant difference there was that the HRB could fit through a door, which an equivalently armored BS-armored robot wouldn't be able to do.
21:52:20 syv: Also, are you sure you aren't thinking of the 2PEW AS variant, which stuck a massively expensive gun into the AS, while increasing the price like four tokens per gun?
21:52:30 syv: Because that got approved and was a genuinely great idea.
21:52:51 Devastator: Also terrible idea.
21:52:58 Devastator: Also also still irrelevatn.
21:53:20 syv: And, in a rarity for tinker weapon design, was actually useful beyond being a big gun. It was an effective excavation device, unlike the basic gauss rifle.
21:54:05 syv: And could still hit and severely damage the general "heavy" targets, unlike the cutlas.
21:55:05 syv: Probably still too expensive to be useful, I'd guess partially due to your interference, but hey. We didn't really *need* to get nice things.
21:55:59 Devastator: Could clear everything with a squad of five-token newbies, assuming you get a +2 amp user.
21:56:07 Devastator: man, that annoyed
RC a lot.
21:56:23 Devastator: going through the supervet M27 and describing a bunch of ways it could be tackled.
21:57:41 syv: I have the distinct feeling it annoyed him more for the fact that the mission was already done, and the only purpose of the mission was to let people have fun, and not to be a genuine challenge.
21:57:59 syv: You *are* the sort to argue about this years after the fact. Was it argued at the time, or only later?
21:58:19 Devastator:
RC was saying how that was a mission that really needed the vets to do it.
21:59:02 syv: I'm now completely sure that the annoying part was the fact that the game was long dead, at the time.
21:59:30 syv: Also, you are missing the point that vets were necessary more for the reason of not being complete idiots.
21:59:51 syv: Which I will assume was Radio's point because that's most convenient for me.
22:00:37 Devastator: He did mention specifically the shielded shuttles being something that couldn't be done.
22:01:16 syv: That actually might be true. Really depends on how nice Dubs felt for the ampers.
22:01:39 Devastator: A low-level amp use took a couple down.
22:01:57 Devastator: Another kill was gotten by splashing water into the air in front of them.
22:02:16 Devastator: (both possible by 5 token newbies..)
22:02:48 Devastator: I also suggested that the remote control nature of them would also probably mean a guy with +2 aux and a drone could hack one into another.
22:03:40 syv: You do realize these still require competent players who try something more sane than "run towards them while screaming and firing my gauss rifle at them"?
22:04:21 syv: Also, like, putting +2 in a relevant skill, and remembering to use it.
22:04:34 Devastator: Because the mission ended before any of the shuttles reached the target.
22:05:11 syv: Gah, I recall that, like, the majority of the newbies needed to be directly called out and advised on how to build their chars. Even after we wrote guides and tools with attached guides.
22:05:25 syv: And still did stupid stupid shit.
22:05:27 Devastator: But you didn't need to be told how to build your char!
22:05:57 Devastator: ..another one went down due to conventional fire. I think the automanips only protected them from direct amp use.
22:06:02 syv: Well yeah, I'm a munchkin. Also I died twice on my first mission, while doing nothing helpful and actually disabling my whole team the entire time.
22:06:18 syv: I'm not good support for your point that newbies can do anything.
22:06:39 Devastator: Did you die permanently?
22:06:40 syv: Putting a bunch of newbies on a planet with the mission goal of "don't kill yourself" is already a lot to ask.
22:07:22 syv: My char got revived, shipped to Hephaestus, and then ceased to interact with the gameworld in any meaningful manner. Isn't that permanent death?
22:09:06 Devastator: speaking as someone who went through those exact things.
22:10:14 Devastator: Empiricist was too stupid to betray..
22:10:35 Devastator: "How can you say that Steve is taking over things, here on this planet that you helped take over in the name of Steve?"
22:10:37 syv: Heh, don't call Emp stupid! Especially not for that.
22:11:00 syv: He wasn't clever, but he was average at worst. >:|
22:11:19 Devastator: Never should have joined the committee.
22:11:27 Devastator: I think
PW said once that was when he stopped rolling for escapes.
22:12:02 Devastator: I think he was going to get out when the power went out and someone was trundling around on Hep, but that player quit posting then, so Leo never escaped.
22:12:19 syv: Your entire goal in the game was to make people not have fun, it was idiotic to let you into a group whose goal was to keep other players from not ruining people's fun.
22:13:07 Devastator: That wasn't my goal..
22:14:24 Devastator: Or the goal of the committee.
22:15:40 Devastator: My goal was to play it wrong by escaping from captivity, which lead to me making a character who wanted to escape.
22:15:41 syv: The goal of the committee was to control power creep and weapon balance do that it'd be reasonable and wouldn't break the game, thus ruining people's fun.
22:16:11 Devastator: The goal of the committee was to ease
PW's burden by reading all the tinker posts and suggestions and debating about them down to a few short lines.
22:16:52 Devastator: Upon which they got approved, and people then didn't actually buy them because the gear was unnecessary, unless
RC spend the team fund to give people them.
22:17:32 Devastator: The work for powercreep was silly because
PW would hand out stuff more powerful than the stuff people designed after each mission cycle.
22:17:55 syv: Well, yes, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't the purpose.
22:18:26 syv: Just like you; expected to do one thing, doing something entirely different, because that's what you felt like doing.
22:18:51 Devastator: What didn't happen that you wanted, anyway?
22:19:20 Devastator: You did have your EMG shot down due to a lack of cooling, but then were handing a perfect cooling artifact next cycle, so could have made it then.
22:19:36 syv: Making a bunch of completely OP items that removed all the challenge from the game. This, of course, was impossible, as the game had no challenge to begin with~
22:19:57 Devastator: Energy machine gun.
22:20:07 Devastator: I thought that was one of your things.
22:20:08 syv: I never made an energy machine gun?
22:20:34 syv: Sean made the... Spektr multi-spectrum laser rifle, and a heavier version that I forgot the name of.
22:20:46 Devastator: and the spaceships.
22:20:47 syv: My flagship weapons were the Testament and Doctrine, which gor approved fine.
22:20:50 Devastator: and the super battleships.
22:20:58 Devastator: and the assaultsuits..
22:21:15 Devastator: what did get shot down by the committee again?
22:21:28 syv: Oh, none of those ships ever mattered for anything. They were just a dude having fun working on stuff in a neat scifi setting, but that's playing the game wrong, I guess.
22:22:16 Devastator: Would have been nice seeing them stop working after space magic got fucked, and requiring new designs.
22:22:35 syv: Honestly I don't even recall. I don't think the committee did bad things too much. The only point I'm trying to make is that you were, and still are, an asshole whenever
ER (the game) is involved.
22:23:08 Devastator: Now if only there was something in game for me to do..
22:23:37 syv: You said it yourself, the game was something you *couldn't* play without ruining it for others.
22:23:48 Devastator: Well, only after the revolution.
22:23:57 Devastator: Before it would have been fine.
22:24:50 Devastator: I mean, I did spend quite some time reading about the adventures of idiot prisoners in space and planned on playing a prisoner in space.
22:25:51 syv: Then you should've joined before that, rather than joining a game in which your only actions would be to ruin it for others.
22:26:07 Devastator: I did join before the revolution.
22:26:29 syv: I mean, really, your only solid complaint is that
PW is bad at supporting a PvP playstyle in an almost wholly cooperative game. Which he even tried to do!
22:27:07 syv: Otherwise, it's just a bunch of stuff that amounts to "I dislike this and I'm upset that everyone else doesn't agree with me!"
22:27:46 Devastator: maybe if the premise didn't change immediately before my first mission.
22:28:06 syv: Bad luck. You really should've known when to quit, though.
22:28:26 syv: I guess it's pretty obvious that you don't know that, considering this argument. :P
22:28:40 Devastator: I sorta did quit but he PMed everyone with a character who didn't get a timeskip level up to remind everyone.
22:28:58 Devastator: But yeah, that's not a requirement to get back in.
22:29:04 Devastator: and I should have ignored it.
22:29:46 syv: Damn Toaster, too nice for everyone's good. :P
22:29:49 Devastator: Instead I got irritated at that and decided to kill off that character so I could stop thinking about him.
22:30:02 Devastator: Except that failed because I wasn't hands on enough with doing it.
22:30:16 syv: He just wanted to help out some people, instead he summoned the ultimate, ageless goblin.
22:30:48 syv: ...Though I suppose I'm happy for it. I wouldn't know you if it weren't for that.
22:30:57 Devastator: Toaster meant well.
22:30:58 syv: I'm happy with blaming Toaster for that, yeah.
22:31:38 Devastator: it's just that, at least then, nobody really got that I was angry with the game and didn't want to read about it, think about it, or play it.
22:32:22 syv: You are kinda bad at expressing such things in a reasonable timeframe.
22:33:05 Devastator: I wasn't secretive about it.
22:33:23 syv: Also, broadly, people are pretty bad at understanding the nuances of other people's feelings, especially during leisure activities.
22:33:53 syv: The only one who has that job is the GM, and arguably Radio, since in many ways he was an assistant GM, but there were far too many players for even the two of them.
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