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00:26:40 ER: Reading today's update for spidergame, it struck me that our character is basically never at full HP.
00:27:01 ER: (exclusive "our" seeing as
Dev isn't here.)
00:28:09 syv: I wish I liked spidergame. Why are you always below max? High max that's hard to reach, or wounds keep pace with regen?
00:29:20 ER: I think the max is high because we're very large and strong, and also we're all idiots who love to solve things by just hitting them harder.
00:29:54 ER: And generally we go back the moment we're recovered enough to stand so as to not waste time.
00:31:12 ER: Most recent time we foolishly tried to fight something that's... very strong, nearly died, had to play as allies for a while to save ourself, and almost killed the party member we were playing as.
00:32:36 ER: We got dragged back to base, and as soon as we were concious but still unable to move, one of our... party members? tried to do a bad thing to us, so we cast a necromantic draining spell that neutralized her while getting us back on our feet.
00:32:39 syv: So having max health isn't considered as valuable as going out and doing things, and only having critical health makes you stop doing thing.
00:33:13 syv: Very loose usage of "party member" there.
00:33:20 ER: Then we were still really beat up, but we went right back out there to save our party member who was injured.
00:33:51 ER: She had turned into a giant crow monster and hurt us a bunch before we could pacify her.
00:34:45 ER: Part of the reason we went out was because it's faster to use the draining spell to heal than resting, so we got a bit back in between by reducing some mook lizardman to dust.
00:36:03 ER: right, the "party member" is the mad scientist who is even more evil and deranged than the mad scientist we already had.
00:36:43 ER: The first one if fine though, she always shows up at the right moment with a syringe of sedative. Or something more deadly.
00:37:38 ER: As of the time I joined we only had one male party member and we had him go off to solve his own problems for a while.
00:38:09 syv: Sounds like your kind of game.
00:38:59 ER: He was also the straight man so right now we're just surrounded by several different flavors of deranged, including our own alter ego.
00:40:17 ER: The most levelheaded of which is a paladin abomination who is naturally pretty unhappy about the abomination thing.
00:40:41 ER: It's that kind of game. You can see how I find it entertaining.
00:42:06 ER: the one who really doe not have our best interests at heart and is a complete sociopath is a fellow drider, of the jumping spider variety.
00:42:41 ER: The chemist one is just a weird human with inexplicable pointy teeth.
00:43:12 ER: And the guy, who is an archer, is a human undead I think. Dullahan?
00:44:14 ER: Hmm. More like in the process of becoming that. Cursed armor.
00:44:50 ER: This game has a lot of random fantasy things and references.
00:45:36 syv: ...Nah, hw's got nothing to do with dullahans.
00:45:53 ER: Hopefully the next time we see him he'll have fixed it, so it doesn't matter too much.
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00:53:34 ER: Oh yeah, so I found the rice lady and she said that it's good that the divine child ate those two snake guts, then she died.
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00:54:00 ER: That seems to be a pattern in this game, but I'm honestly not sure why she died.
00:54:54 ER: But her last word were just "over there" while pointing forwards and I looked over there but couldn't find anything so I'm a little confuzzled.
01:02:26 sy: No clue what she was talking about.
01:02:48 sy: And yeah, lots of NPCs just kinda... say something normally, then fall over.
01:03:28 sy: Bit worse than normal, I'd say, Usually with Fromsoft the people will cough or sound wounded or something.
01:04:08 sy: There's one particular NPC who I'm just certain the Eng VA just didn't realize his character was supposed to die right after finishing.
01:04:43 sy: He reads his lines like he's getting pumped up and all energetic, when he's supposed to be bleeding out and mumbling semi-incoherently to himself.
01:04:55 ER: Haven't noticed stuff like that in the japanese.
01:05:23 ER: But then in japanese voices about half of the people CONSTANTLY sound like they're just about to keel over.
01:05:53 syv: Yeah, I played through on NG++++ with Jap, just to hear the voices. Most of the time VAs seem comparable, though I didn't hear the Jap death scene for that guy.
01:06:20 syv: Owl though, Owl varies between sounding constipated and sounding like his lips are numb.
01:06:46 syv: And Genichiro's Jap VA is okay, but his Eng VA is just *too awesome* to compare.
01:07:50 ER: Does the english VA sound sufficiently like a silly samurai film?
01:11:12 syv: Here you go. No spoilers if you already beat Geni.
01:13:36 Piecewise_: >not playing sekiro in japanese
01:15:15 syv: I completed the game in Japanese.
01:16:05 ER: I can appreciate a lot more how awesome geni is in that scene when I'm not worrying about how he's about to wreck me.
01:17:48 ER: But yeah, he sounds good but he's the only voice I like there.
01:19:11 syv: Eh, agreed, but I didn't feel the Jap VAs for Emma or Kuro were all that much better. In particular, Kuro sounds even more like a young woman in Jap. Emma sounds generic either way.
01:20:17 ER: Japanese Kuro has more... base, to me. English one is just squeaky.
01:20:38 ER: Easier to take seriously, at least.
01:21:26 ER: Of course he's not literally saying "for he is my SHINOBI" while turning around dramatically in a language I understand.
01:27:24 syv: "Sure, last time the two of you fought, he *hadn't* lost an arm and was still taken out in like five seconds, but I'm sure he'll come back for me and wreck you this thime. For he, is my shinobi."
01:27:31 ER: There's a mod on nexus that claims that the official translation is trash and changes all the subtitles and stuff to be more accurate and make more sense. Apparently.
01:27:44 syv: Oh, if you beat Genichiro the first time you meet him, you get a special cutscene.
01:28:18 ER: I'm sure I'll manage that on my fiftieth playthrough~
01:28:51 syv: Considering all the things that aren't part of a translation but still make no sense, I'm willing to believe the English story is trash simply because the Japanese story is trash.
01:28:54 ER: or if it's anything like dark souls, my fiftieth new save that I'll never finish...
01:29:25 ER: You keep your stuff for that section?
01:29:32 syv: I haven't done it on NG, the lack of Mikiri counter and in-air combat arts (combat arts at all really) trips me up.
01:29:41 syv: Yup. You keep basically everything.
01:29:57 ER: oh, playing without mikiri...
01:30:17 syv: Lose the mortal blade, prosthetics, and revives for that section. Sides from those, you get your whole kit.
01:31:00 ER: Because you could use that to piss off out of the tutorial area. :P
01:31:07 syv: His stabs are all sidesteppable, but they oneshot you if you mess them up and it's REALLY HARD to get over the muscle memory of dashing into them.
01:37:12 ER: would be funny to start the game, immediately turn around and grapple up to go fight spooky guy.
01:38:23 syv: You don't start with a katana on NG+, or prosthetics, so you wouldn't have any way of dealing damage to him.
01:38:41 syv: You also can't sprint until meeting Kuro.
01:38:52 syv: Which is amazingly irritating.
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01:41:47 Elastic_Ridicule: (didn't miss anything)
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01:48:28 ER: Maybe I should make it a policy to make a music playlist and loading screen tips for any game that I post to the forum :V
01:49:23 ER: For reasons that even I cannot comprehend, angels do not currently seem cool to me.
01:49:29 syv: I'm curious what Tactihell's playlist would sound like.
01:50:00 ER: Leans on hotline miami and a little crypt of the necrodancer I think.
01:50:21 ER: Hmm, maybe toss in some XCOM EU?
01:55:39 ER: If I made a shopcat sequence in tac hell
syv will be happy, I think.
01:58:08 ER: If you haven't seen the game, this music is for the interface you use to buy computer programs from a cyber cat.
01:59:14 syv: I think I know of it. It's the one where you control spies sneaking around a tactical board to steal stuff? And you can't kill guards?
01:59:26 syv: "Can't kill guards" was what turned me off of it.
01:59:35 ER: You can kill them, but it's not trivial.
02:00:32 ER: The weapons most agents start with are nonlethal, and lethal guns usually use limited ammo. And killing guards raises the alarm level due to "heart monitors".
02:01:19 ER: I think you can turn that last one off as a difficulty option, and you can certainly unlock very deadly starting agents.
02:01:47 syv: Eh. No thanks. When I want tactical stealth I can play Shadow Tactics again.
02:01:57 ER: But most of the game is indeed based on avoiding guards, knocking them out if you have to, and making sure you're not around when they wake up.
02:02:06 syv: In that game I can have a little girl slaughter hundreds of men. Much more interesting.
02:02:49 ER: It's a game where you're always in a hurry, the alarm raises by one tick every single turn, and at high alarm powerful enemies constantly enter the map.
02:04:03 ER: Most stealth games give you safe spots then you go into dangerous areas to clear things out and make the level safer. In Invisable everything is always dangerous and getting more dangerous by the turn.
02:06:19 ER: it's not a game for casuls~
02:06:45 ER: I do like it but I don't play it much because I'm bad and it's a time and attention investment.
02:08:26 ER: Usually I take too long and I end up with 15 guards between me and the exit. From there it's either a heroic effort to get past just barely or I get shot.
02:13:10 syv: I prefer stuff like XCOM LW2 or Necrodancer if I'm looking for something like that.
02:13:32 syv: Generally I play stealth games when I want to relax and take things slow and methodical.
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02:15:10 Elastic_Ridicule: Yeah, it's not a stealth game in the traditional sense. It's more like XCOM2 except where rather than being shot at by enemies and worrying they'll hit you you're just worrying that they'll see you at all.
02:16:10 syv: I prefer games like that when I can blow up the enemies who are aggravating me. :P
02:16:40 Elastic_Ridicule: You should be happy to escape with your life. And some extra cash~
02:16:40 syv: I thought I'd end up really liking the final boss of Sekiro after I learned it, but I've gotten it basically down now and honestly I still rather dislike the fight. It's very Bloodborne, but... it feels stupid and spammy.
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02:18:21 syv: I love the optional final boss though.
02:19:20 syv: He's only really got one fuck-you attack, and it doesn't do too much damage.
02:19:50 syv: Everything else is always telegraphed and smoothly dodgeable, usually with an immediate and minor counter.
02:20:53 syv: Other final boss is kinda just a neverending sequence of combo hits to parry while getting occasional hits in, and then a few attacks that are so utterly punishable it's stupid.
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03:05:05 syv: 'd Sekiro. Now to drop it and never touch it again.
03:05:45 syv: Now how am I supposed to waste ny time?
03:06:53 Piecewise_: I'm one achievement away
03:06:58 Piecewise_: getting all the skills
03:07:40 syv: Just run NG+ Shura ending repeatedly. Takes like two hours if you do it decently quick, and not al that boring.
03:11:43 syv: Oh, and try to save money for use with the money shot prosthetic. It utterly trivializes some minibosses, including, wonderfully, Shirahagi.
03:12:05 syv: For some reason Shirahagi is the second most difficult boss for me, behind SSI.
03:12:52 ER: how do you deal with the grab? I think that jumping works best.
03:13:09 syv: Dash back and immediately respond with a charged stab.
03:14:01 ER: who do normal arial r1s do so little damage?
03:14:03 syv: Apparently it's parriable, but with really weird timing. The speedrunners do that.
03:14:12 syv: Becuase fuck you use Ichimonji.
03:15:02 ER: I mean, you have a bit more mobility than grounded r1, but it seems to do less than a third of normal damage.
03:15:37 syv: It's fast and only really useful for interrupting enemies.
03:16:01 ER: Also using floating passage with bestowal on weak crowds like villagers is hilarious.
03:16:05 syv: But yeah, it's stupid and pretty much inferior to any decent aeriel combat art.
03:16:34 syv: Kind've pointless, sadly. Villagers are junk.
03:17:06 ER: pressing l1+r1 and watching everything die is its own reward.
03:18:46 ER: How am I supposed to fight Owl? I'm not sure that I "get" him yet.
03:19:04 syv: Unlock and deadangle his ass.
03:19:29 ER: trying to wrangle jank doesn't sound easy or fun
03:19:49 syv: After his flip jump and heal-disable attack he's super vulnerable, if you keep stepping behind him you can get five hit combos and he can't really do anything about it.
03:21:18 syv: For his second stage I think you can basically just spam feathers to hurt health and then just parry until he dies.
03:22:13 ER: I swear that a lot of enemies with big swords hit your posture even when you deflect right.
03:22:36 syv: How many necklaces do you have?
03:23:03 ER: As many as I can right now, I'm pretty sure. Not playing now so don't know the number.
03:25:51 syv: You can get nine and a half, though I'm unsure about before Owl. Might be only eight.
03:26:44 ER: I have two beads from the headless ape fight.
03:29:52 ER: Alexander goes up to red glow text guy and yellow glow text guy and tries to get coherant information out of them.
03:30:09 ER: Do you want to roleplay that here or have me drop a lore dump on you?
03:30:33 syv: Which will get you to do it sooner?
03:30:44 ER: roleplay is probably more amusing.
03:31:18 ER: I'm doing it now, but writing a dump of my mind is probably faster by a bit. :P
03:31:25 syv: "You! Merchant! Which way to the surface?"
03:32:34 ER: [red] "Um, you mean Marsin? That's closest."
03:33:24 syv: "No, not your heretic gods. The *surface*. Where you see the Heavens."
03:33:40 syv: We are clearly in a cave. How do I get out?"
03:35:09 ER: [red] "Well, usually you find an upwards leading path and it will put you on one of the four primes."
03:36:11 syv: Alexander sighs. "Let me state this more directly: If you were to go to the surface, what path would you follow, precisely? Or do you not know?"
03:39:28 ER: Yellow stops fiddling with a something and turns around, somewhat roughly pushing Red aside. [yellow] "You idiot, he obviously doesn't know the fundementals of hell's geography."
03:40:26 ER: (these characters aren't very deep, so red is a bit unwise and yellow is a bit of a dick.)
03:42:24 ER: (Depends if you say something here~)
03:43:40 syv: "Well then? Are *you* familiar with the path to the surface, or are you *both* subterranean idiots?"
03:44:39 ER: [rolls for dickishness. 1.]
03:46:10 ER: [yellow] "You're one to talk, dark ages. Do you want me to explain to you how little you understand your situation, or would you rather throw a tantrum and storm out of here?"
03:49:39 syv: "Hah! How little *I* understand my situation? You don't even know where you truly are, heathen. The simple fact that you have wandered for a long time does not lend understanding, not like the words of God. Now, will you be of use to me, or am I wasting my time in this shop?"
03:52:43 ER: [yellow] "...Through that hatch, follow the stream up. You'll reach a place where you can see the sky. Maybe then you'll work it out."
03:56:30 syv: "Hmmf. Finally, some sense. Men, girl, you heard the heathen; as I originally suspected, the stream leads to the surface."
03:57:49 syv: He hasn't been playing so I doubt it.
03:57:52 ER: of course not, why do you think I was asking about him?
03:58:02 Piecewise_: I saw the ask a while back
03:58:06 Piecewise_: didn't know if you beat him
03:58:12 Piecewise_: I ain't reading your shit~
03:58:17 syv: There was also no crow of joy, which I'd expect after success.
03:58:21 ER: since then I've been slacking and writing a turn
03:58:49 Piecewise_: For owl there are few interesting things
03:58:53 ER: well I wasn't spending the whole time doing it
03:59:19 ER: I should probably spam the mist raven more, it's certainly on-brand for me
03:59:46 syv: Second stage is harder, as usual, so spam them there.
04:03:18 Piecewise_: first if he knocks you down he has a stomp. It can be baited and rolled under for lots of free hits on his back.
04:03:38 Piecewise_: second, stay in on him. he has lots of quick movement but right in his grill he's not as strong
04:05:55 Piecewise_: Hmm. I could always give him a fight and tell you more
04:07:08 Piecewise_: lemme do that. I have a save right there
04:11:04 Piecewise_: Alright so his double throwing star into overhead flip can be side stepped on the flip in order to get a hit or two in
04:11:38 syv: It's really not that hard to get dead angles there for a four hit combo.
04:11:59 syv: Unlock, point movement behind him, spam R1. Relock when he jumps away.
04:12:52 syv: I never figured out a decent counter for the single throwing star charging slash. Always just blocked it.
04:13:41 Piecewise_: You can't knock him out of the sky with a throwing star mid leap
04:13:58 Piecewise_: That single star running slash might be jumpable
04:15:40 Piecewise_: And yeah
sy there are lots of cheap ways to beat bosses
04:15:55 Piecewise_: you can spam fire crackers and fist of ash
04:16:02 Piecewise_: but that is not very fun
04:17:05 syv: I never found ash all that useful. It's so slow, I could just slash. Firecrackers at least can be dropped while jumping.
04:17:42 syv: Also,
ER doesn't have trouble with using feathers, which are the cheapest prosthetic, so I think he just wants to win, not win "right".
04:18:30 ER: playing unlocked is harder than using feathers and isn't winning right either.
04:20:09 syv: I'm not saying to stay unlocked. That does wonders for Owl too, since he usually can't block DAs even from the front, but *is* way harder anyway. I'm saying to unlock for like two seconds while holding the stick forward-left and mashing R1. You don't have to aim much or even react to anything, beyond relocking and blocking when he jumps away, which is obvious.
04:21:59 Piecewise_: Rice can still be used even while healing is blocked
04:24:02 Piecewise_: problem with jumping the throw and slash is it is identical to throw throw flip on start up and the actual following slash is really fast
04:25:14 ER: I like how in this universe basically normal rice is an amazing healing item.
04:25:26 Piecewise_: His big firecracker slash that he sometimes does can be dodged under to your right to hit his back
04:26:40 syv: I think she excretes it somehow.
04:27:25 syv: Doesn't he vary what he does after the firecracker?
04:28:12 syv: The only consistent way to avoid damage I found was jump back, I think. I recall him using firecracker then jumping back himself then rushing forwards, which can catch a forward dash.
04:29:23 Piecewise_: Nah he always does that slash
04:30:04 Piecewise_: at least I baited it like 7 times and its all he did
04:30:17 Piecewise_: still, might rarely throw in a stab or something but never did for me
04:30:28 ER: it's not called "magic special rice" or something, the item is literally just called Rice, and the description says that rice is valuable.
04:30:41 Piecewise_: His AI actually seems to change when you get healing blocked.
04:30:42 syv: You gave her the serpent fruits right?
04:30:50 Piecewise_: he becomes more aggressive
04:30:54 syv: Just continue that questline.
04:31:19 syv: Yeah. Can still just sprint away forever if you're careful, because sprinting is always OP.
04:31:21 Piecewise_: I actually used that to force him to stay in short range more than constantly running to mid
04:32:32 Piecewise_: But the safest way, if you don't wanna just get good at crossing swords, is to bait/wait for a handful of attacks and wear him down
04:33:00 Piecewise_: because if you hit zero hp then they always open up to a deathblow
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04:36:53 Elastic_Ridicule: Rakiit rolled a 17
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04:37:30 ER: that was a perception at -6 because she's being pretty distracted at the moment.
04:38:43 syv: Kind've irrelevant, since our party has way too much focus, yeah?
04:40:40 Piecewise_: In any case
ER, if you wanna win without much effort just keep on defense until he does the healing block thing, the overhead jump, or whatever attacks you can get in on easily
04:41:19 Piecewise_: or, fucking get in his face and parry perfect and bully him
04:41:32 ER: It doesn't change the actual outcome much, the difference between me typing "you hear someone talking but miss what was said" and me just copying the dialogue. Or her not noticing anything, with a bad enough roll.
05:04:12 ER: "okay, it would actually be kinda unfair to make up a monster randomly to drop on somebody. I'll roll a luck d6 in order to provide myself the illusion of fairness." [5] "dammit."
05:05:03 ER: you win this time, chariots chariots.
05:05:45 syv: And he'll continue winning right up until he gets into a fight.
05:06:38 syv: Hey,
Piecewise_, do you still want me to stream when I play through DaS III the first time? Whenever the hell that'll be?
05:06:52 ER: I had this great idea of a shadow tentacle wasp demon melting out of the ceiling once it saw someone alone, but alas.
05:07:10 syv: Just ignore the die, it was meant to be.
05:07:47 ER: I only disobey the die when I ask it to choose food for me~
05:08:24 ER: If I wasn't going to listen to an ideal result, why did I roll?
05:08:47 syv: That's a good question. The answer is that you shouldn't have rolled.
05:09:59 ER: It wasn't even his orders to stay behind, just him being too unobservant to notice that he can't actually carry the thing that
MJ was handing him. :P
05:13:13 Piecewise_: I'd be interested in that
05:13:31 Piecewise_: Though give me some heads up
05:16:21 syv: Kay. Are your Saturday nights (Later than 10PM for you) often free? 'Cause that's the only consistent time I can stream games.
05:16:29 syv: Also, not this Sat. Maybe next week.
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05:24:11 syv: Thread title is appropriate.
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05:51:02 ER: the wifi hardware in my laptop just suddenly stopped working last night, can't work out a direct fix, instead I have a usb thing plugged in
05:51:37 ER: but at some point this usb thing got a little... bent, so if I poke it too hard it loses connection
05:54:15 syv: The tethering software I use doesn't always play well with bluetooth, which means I have to use a USB, but then the USB is always super sensitive, making the phone and cord into this sacrosanct little attachment that cannot be touched at all, lest my connection die.
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