00:30:37 Devastator: I'm not sure why there would be one.
00:31:05 Devastator: donations getting harder to come by?
00:38:23 Devastator: That countdown in Awful Hospital raises cosmological questions.
00:41:59 Devastator: Doesn't everyone else have a shaky understanding of time?
00:42:14 Devastator: Then again, since that thing was supposed to interact and destroy buzzers..
01:12:21 ER: mostly they just want some more financial stability because Zach has had health issues and healthcare in the US is an absolute bastard.
01:12:44 ER: I'll be happy if it attracts more players to the game though.
01:13:49 Devastator: well, probably inevitable.
01:13:57 Devastator: either that or go patreon.
01:16:31 Devastator: as I said, probably inevitable.
01:19:53 ER: in the initial 2014 release, "it was inevitable" was what NPCs told you if you mentioned an event that they have no existing opinion about.
01:22:46 ER: I asked you for your opinion and all you've told me is that it was inevitable so I can only assume that you don't really give a shit.
01:23:33 Devastator: I don't see any point in expressing an opinion about something that was going to happen.
01:23:38 Devastator: It's like the sun rising.
01:24:03 ER: better that the sun rises than that it doesn't.
01:25:37 Devastator: will old versions be available?
01:26:14 Devastator: Then I have no opinion on it.
01:26:53 ER: yeah, I bet you don't even care if DF gets updated ever again because you still have your favorite version.
01:27:31 Devastator: I do generally update.
01:27:52 Devastator: Often when I start a new game, so every couple of years.
01:29:46 Devastator: In general versions add stuff I like and stuff I don't like, so.. meh?
01:30:44 Devastator: The downside is that something like dwarf companion or dwarf therapist will become mandatory.
01:30:51 Devastator: Other than that.. eh.
01:30:54 Devastator: I wouldn't mind new people.
01:30:59 Devastator: It might kill the forum.
01:31:38 Devastator: Every time I've seen someone talk about it recently it has been 'You NEED insert X QoL add-on' to be able to even possibly consider playing this.
01:32:00 Devastator: so something is going to get bundled very soon.
01:33:03 ER: they might poke the interface a little, but don't think there's any plans to bundle the steam version with any utility programs.
01:34:29 Devastator: It might not be optional.
01:34:42 Devastator: Achievements aren't optional, for instance. They must be included.
01:35:19 Devastator: There's a 10 achievement minimum.
01:35:21 ER: They'll include an option to make your steam installation the same as the free version
01:36:16 ER: "Your purchase includes Dwarf Fortress Classic if you prefer to play without graphics or music or Steam-specific features, in the “classic” beta branch."
01:36:44 ER: steam specific features means achevements, basically.
01:37:05 Devastator: 'without graphics' Whoops.
01:37:09 Devastator: So mandatory tileset, then.
01:37:37 ER: yeah, you make an unsubstanstiated comment, I provide a direct quote which disproves it, you say "for now"
01:39:13 Devastator: I said achievements wouldn't be optional. You posted a quote saying they had to be programmed in.
01:39:20 Devastator: but whatever, goblin.
01:39:42 Devastator: I meant they would have to be included to put the game on steam.
01:39:58 Devastator: but nooo, disproved something I didn't mean.
01:41:47 Devastator: I mean, it's fine. You said that there would be a branch without that, which is good. I hope old versions will be available, for long-running fortresses at the least, and I don't think Toady would stand for that not being the case.
01:42:27 Devastator: but I don't see why you'd give me grief over me objecting to forcing someone to do something as arbritrary as including achievements.
01:42:53 Devastator: Why that, of all things, is the sticking point for valve is something I can't understand.
01:44:00 Devastator: Also, if you don't want to hear it why press me for a detailed opinion on something that's not really a big deal to me?
01:45:59 Devastator: Oh, I see. If it's already on steam without a QoL improvement that would be what
ER meant.
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03:17:43 Devastator: no
syv yet. I'll need to get his consent for a second deadline.
03:20:02 Devastator:
PW getting burnt out?
03:20:23 ER: running too many things imo
03:21:41 Devastator: Arcane Fuckery looks like a nightmare in particular.
03:21:50 Devastator: well, re-running
ER is ambitious.
03:33:01 Devastator: Also, fools 2 is totally 3.
03:33:43 ER: what? no, there is no 3 in that sequence
03:34:14 Devastator: Yes. What we know of as 3 is really fools 2.
03:34:22 Devastator: the hospital has the true measure.
03:39:13 Devastator: 'fools 2, the answer to the reimann hypothesis.'
04:37:35 Devastator: Please do not drink Catnip Cocktail.
04:37:45 Devastator: Well, looks like the synthetic drugs are still popular.
04:47:35 Devastator: if I'm not dead and/or on fire, I'll see if I can help you out.
04:49:39 Devastator: Looks like the traditional brand of competence.
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05:42:40 MidJag: So DF is getting a steam release?
05:43:31 MidJag: ...what the fuck is my main emotion,
05:48:59 MidJag:
Dev you around? I need to speculate wildly.
05:54:03 Devastator: Don't worry, it'll be terrible.
05:54:13 Devastator: I just wish you could really go indy.
05:56:29 MJ: Haveing like a bundled tileset is weird enough much less being on steam
05:56:51 Devastator: Well, that's unsuprising, really.
05:56:56 Devastator: have to have a tileset.
05:57:08 MJ: yeah, I think most people would run away screaming without a tileset
05:57:34 MJ: unless it's like cogmind? Is that the robot ASCII thing?
05:57:42 Devastator: Cogmind has tileset capabilities.
05:57:45 Devastator: and isn't on steam, IIRC.
05:59:04 Devastator: guess I bought the version that didn't have it.
05:59:11 Devastator: although I think I bought it before official release, so..
05:59:23 MJ: Cogmind has really impressive ASCII I have to admit
06:02:43 Devastator: It's all the same to me.
06:02:51 MJ: oh cool, mayday and meph are apperentlly doing the tileset.
06:03:45 Devastator: Cogmind tilesets are all the same to me.
06:03:51 Devastator: DF tilesets, I can't see ####
06:04:42 MJ: I'm sorta surprised all the letters are easier to make out.
06:05:01 Devastator: Hmm? That's not the problem.
06:05:15 Devastator: The problem is the tilesets have little pictures that I gotta make out.
06:05:24 Devastator: the ascii uses more of the available room, so to speak.
06:05:37 MJ: Hmm, yeah I guess that makes sense.
06:07:40 Devastator: Plus I do some of the more confusing things in similar layouts from fort to fort, so I know what the areas around a certain kind of workshop look like, for instance.
06:08:19 Devastator: Heh, I wonder if that was intentional. Rocket Ronnie saved his 1000th century break for a tournament winning frame.
06:09:42 Devastator:
syv is late for his PS update, so things are gonna get feathery.
06:10:39 Devastator: Gotta talk to him about the next possible forfeit date.
06:10:53 Devastator: a mini play-ben as he turns into a tiny purple catgirl?
06:12:55 Devastator: Yup. Now how tiny, how purple, and how catgirl?
06:13:50 MJ: Hmm, florescent purple, tiny IDK, and cat girl a bit more than Rakiit.
06:14:12 Devastator: oh, he shot it left-handed!
06:14:26 Devastator: How much is rakiit?
06:18:47 Devastator: How much is rakiit?
06:19:06 MJ: oh Rakiit is Ears fangs and a tail.
06:19:49 Devastator: so like that, but + fur.
06:22:04 MJ: huh, I did not realize how many features Rakiit had then.
06:22:11 MJ: Maybe just Rakiit levels then
06:22:39 Devastator: Gotta get a vote from
ER.
06:22:45 Devastator: or anyone else who wants to contribute, really.
06:22:52 Devastator: maaybe poke
PW if he's on discord or something.
06:23:07 MJ: I would be curious abuot Dubs response
06:24:45 Devastator: I won't be doing it without syvs permission in any case.
06:24:50 Devastator: these deadlines are subject to his approval.
06:29:23 MJ: Nah, gotta go to bed early,
06:39:17 MJ: I'm shadowing a cardiologist tommorow, that's about it, been working on a paper this week.
06:40:31 MJ: shadowing is where you just follow a doc around as they make rounds. You don't say or do anything so it's like your their shadow. Hence the name.
06:44:03 Devastator: flourescent purple skin and eyes, but no fur. ;-p
06:44:22 Devastator: Does rakiit have whiskers?
06:44:38 Devastator: fangs imply at least some muzzle.
06:45:20 MJ: ..whoops, in the stats I have whiskers
06:45:28 MJ: so yes, Rakiit does have whiskers
06:48:23 Devastator: do ask Dubs if you see him, though.
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14:02:51 syv:
Dev, legally what's being sold is the tileset and some music/sounds, along with Steam integration, for the Steam release only.
14:03:23 syv: The game is still completely free otherwise, and the tileset and music are both pretty much inherently inferior to what already exists anyway.
14:03:55 syv: It's a blatant cashgrab is what I'm saying, except I'm not at all unhappy about it because I like Tarn getting cash.
14:04:42 syv: But yeah, if you completely ignore the Steam version, the only things that will change are a possible playerbase increase, and some improved modding support/UI stuff in DF--which is being released in the free version as well.
14:06:19 syv: It's not even changing the update schedule in any real way; When Tarn considers a version stable, the Steam version will get updated, and otherwise everything will be as it has been. It's been made quite clesr that he's having little to do with the workings of Steam itself, beyond what's necessary. His publisher--Kitfox games, who you should be familiar with if you follow the devblog, which you don't seem to--is pretty much handling Steam.
14:06:59 syv: Also, it seems that Kitfox games technically owns the special tileset and music, but then those don't really matter in any way beyond being selling points for the Steam version.
14:07:25 syv: They've been very clear they don't own anything of DF itself, and have no access or rights to the source or anything. It's still wholly Tarn's.
14:08:25 syv: In effect, the Steam release comes off to me a lot like a bunch of Tarn's friends polishing up his gaje with very minor 3rd party stuff, with minimal support from him, so that it can be sold and get him more money. It's like an addon to the already existing business model, and for you, changes nothing.
14:08:48 syv: So please stop being a negativistic asshole grognard about it.
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14:47:48 Devastator: Well, that's good news.
14:59:09 Devastator: Anyway, I think a stream realease is a good and necessary thing.
15:00:41 Devastator: Also, I love DF. I also want people to love it for some of the same reasons.
15:01:06 Devastator: Which is why I criticize necessary improvements such as an integrated tileset and very much needed quality of life improvements.
15:01:19 Devastator: They're good things, necessary things, and they should be done and included in any release.
15:04:43 Devastator: I also like works of flawed dedication and madness, particularlly when made by talented people like Tarn.
15:05:23 Devastator: So I'm going to lament it when it moves away from those roots, even when making great, badly-needed improvements such as the above and a steam release.
15:06:15 Devastator: It's a good thing, don't forget that, which I'm willing to say and agree with.
15:06:47 Devastator: But it's also a good thing that I can remember, and when people can have different experiences with the same thing.
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