00:03:16 Piecewise_: Tactichell is better because its a pun
00:03:25 Piecewise_: because it sounds like Tactical
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00:20:51 syv: I agree with Dubs, and will from now on write it "Tactichell"
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00:22:46 syv: Midnight. Jaguar. Catgirl. What color is Rakiit's hair/fur?
00:23:33 syv: ...Brown. Disappoint. Even though I'm oretty sure OG Rakiit is brown too.
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00:36:58 Devastator: I hope
MJ does some player vs player in tachell.
00:38:52 Devastator: reading the OL novels.
00:39:01 Devastator: I wouldn't call them amazing, but they aren't too bad.
00:39:33 syv: Webnovels, or the professional one?
00:40:41 Devastator: the professional one.
00:40:51 Devastator: the webnovels have poor to bad quality translations.
00:41:12 Devastator: Yeah. It's what you'd expect from unpaid volunteers.
00:41:26 syv: I've tried reading a couple translated webnovels, invariably *horrendous*. Like, unreadably so.
00:41:47 Devastator: I think my standards have went down a bit from Elventide's game.
00:41:59 syv: There's quite a number of VNs well-translated by unpaid volunteers.
00:42:08 Devastator: But you know what I mean.
00:42:19 Devastator: sometimes you get good translations, but most of the time it's poor to bad.
00:42:24 syv: Plus even most OEL web novels are terrible.
00:42:35 Devastator: There is more rules stuff.
00:42:43 Devastator: Martial Arts have just been explained.
00:43:26 syv: Link me? I might check it out.
00:43:31 Devastator: They're like..slots. You get one slot every fiveish levels, at least for humans. You can have one rank of martial arts per slot.
00:44:45 Devastator: You can learn more martial arts, and some take up more than one slot, but you can have X slots full. Some are continual buffs, some are attack moves, etc.
00:45:03 Devastator: so if you buff yourself to the gills, you can't pull out your fancy moves.
00:45:23 Devastator: but you can have both.
00:48:38 syv: Has it stated anything about Pandora's Actor's build yet?
00:49:10 syv: I saw what you said in the logs, and am pretty surprised about Albedo being a defensive build (Stacking immunities, I assume), but nothing about PA.
00:49:51 syv: My personal guess is that he's a UMD-focused rogue, or something similar. A versatile martial character who uses craptons of magic items to mimic a caster.
00:52:00 Devastator: He's not that brutal. Seems to be just about the only illusionist they have, though.
00:52:21 Devastator: I think he's there to take care of sneaky threats.
00:52:34 syv: I suppose Illusionist kinda fots with doppelganger, though IMO it overlaps way too much.
00:53:24 Devastator: Yeah. He's not much of a caster. More a fighter.
00:53:50 Devastator: Weak to direct damage.
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01:26:17 syv: sev is halfway between
dev and
syv. :(
01:29:42 midnightjaguar: It is kinda funny I’m playing a char that hates the standard archetype I play
01:31:33 Devastator: I just hope you murder the doc and steal whatever drugs he has on him.
01:31:47 midnightjaguar: And that another guy is playing the archetype I play.
01:34:37 midnightjaguar: Also I’m not sure he’ll have drugs. He has a scalpel as his possession
01:35:04 syv: Which is possibly the worst possible "doctor" possession he could have chosen.
01:36:18 midnightjaguar: Yeah. I was thinking for Sean he’d have either like a Suture kit or like a first aid kit or something. Scalpel is just a very delicate sharp ass knife.
01:36:22 syv: "Ah yes, the other players have chosen... full plate armor, a light machine gun, and a book of maddening occult secrets. What could possibly be on the level of these items, hmm? Oh, I know! A shitty knife!"
01:37:28 Devastator: I am suprised at the lack of drugs, actually.
01:37:36 Devastator: I thought they were a thing in tachell.
01:37:47 midnightjaguar: They are defiantly a thing in Tachell
01:38:05 midnightjaguar: I’ll learn to spell definetlly eventually
01:38:20 Devastator: Hmm, the lack of equipment might mean extra cash.
01:38:25 Devastator: so you can then trade that for stuff.
01:39:11 syv: We don't have any cash at all, pretty sure.
01:39:31 midnightjaguar: Yeah. Rakiiit is going to look at the shop and see if there are drugs though
01:39:50 syv: At the very least, Alexander and Rakiit simply wouldn't have fungible currency due to their backstories, while the scribe... I have doubts.
01:39:54 Devastator: If there are drugs, are you going to be able to walk away without them?
01:40:08 Devastator: Extra can just mean 'the amount beyond zero.'
01:40:41 syv: I still doubt having a scalpel would mean he gets cash in return.
01:41:06 midnightjaguar: I’m not even entirely sure that Amph has an understanding of currency at all
01:41:48 Devastator: Who knows? But if you suggest it it might happen.
01:42:55 Devastator: It's.. prooobably less likely if you instakill him, though.
01:43:56 syv: If she has comprehension of what a mercenary is, she'd know. Or arguably comprehension of "slave", since she'd likely be sold as one.
01:45:13 midnightjaguar: Yeah. She’d probably know what currency is. But was probably not super familiar with concept of actually handling it.
01:46:31 midnightjaguar: Probably at a very basic level.
01:47:00 Devastator: (probably.) They would have wanted her to understand certain instructions.
01:47:04 midnightjaguar: If only because it makes it easier to give order if Text is an option
01:47:08 Devastator: So some level of it is likely, as she was in a lab.
01:51:00 syv: Also, if she was supposed to be a soldier, writing would be VERY VERY useful to teach.
01:51:48 syv: So maybe her knowledge is very stilted towards battlefield tactics and terms, but I'd expect her to be able to communicate effectively with writing.
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01:59:37 Devastator: Yeah. Illiterate soldiers are a thing that went out of style in the 19th century.
02:04:02 Devastator: Clementine got introduced, and described repeatedly as 'cat-like'
02:05:58 syv: She's still not a catgirl, even if she was deliberately designed to evoke that aesthetic.
02:06:37 Devastator: No, but it's amusing to read it.
02:07:30 Devastator: Also, heterochromia girl has Clementine outlevelled.
02:08:27 syv: The only chars I recall definitely having heterochromia were the elf twins.
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02:08:40 syv: So... more specific, plox?
02:08:50 Devastator: The one scene bit at the introduction of season 2.
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02:08:58 Devastator: with the rubiks cube.
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02:09:19 Devastator: Apparently her job is to keep anyone from breaking into the vault there.
02:09:46 syv: ...Did she ever appear elsewhere in S2?
02:10:23 Devastator: The other guy there is comparable to Clementine.
02:10:51 syv: Clementine didn't seem to be super high class, honestly.
02:11:17 syv: I was figuring somewhere around the high twenties, if the maids are ~60.
02:12:11 Devastator: About on par with Gazef. A little stronger. Gazef could probably take her with his fancy gear, but not otherwise.
02:12:15 syv: Huh. Has Khajiit's level been specified?
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02:13:52 ER: how much description do the four fools who Sebas oneshots get?
02:14:29 syv: He's prolly not that far in, if he's only just talking about the intro to S2.
02:15:52 ER: I figure the Khajiit is a pure caster around the same level as clem. So even more terrifying them her, but also she could stab him in the face.
02:16:46 Devastator: Clem's a long step weaker.
02:16:54 Devastator: the caster is a long step weaker.
02:17:02 syv: Likely, but he *could* be weaker. The fact that Nabe, who's L65 at most and crossclass (maybe?) so completely outclass... yep.
02:17:11 Devastator: And it's not the intro to S2. It's Clementine's introduction, and she talks about those people.
02:17:20 Devastator: I'm reading Clem and Khajiits intro.
02:17:25 syv: (
Devastator) Also, heterochromia girl has Clementine outlevelled.
02:17:25 syv: (
Devastator) The one scene bit at the introduction of season 2.
02:17:38 Devastator: ..I'm mentioning where she appears in the anime.
02:17:43 Devastator: which you have seen.
02:17:50 Devastator: as opposed to where she's mentioned in the book I'm reading.
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02:17:59 syv: How do you know shewas the
02:18:09 ER: He was relying on his summons being immune to spells, not knowing that they're technically immune to spells level 6 or lower. Which is higher than just about any human in that universe can use.
02:18:23 Devastator: I'm not 100%, but the description seems fairly clear.
02:21:08 syv: Oh sweet, Dragonman changed his scalpel to a FAK. That means Rakiit has even more overwhelming odds of success, and we get a free FAk.
02:21:43 ER: I was looking forwards to giving that scapel terrible stats
02:21:46 Devastator: Maybe dragonman figured out that he can't actually catch up to the catgirl.
02:22:05 syv: Maybe I told him explicitly to change it to a FAK.
02:24:09 syv: Hey,
ER, how does the snapshot % work, precisely? Since the LMG has 20, does that mean it has an 80% chance of missing on a snapshot, regardless of the user's accuracy roll?
02:25:34 syv: Next question: can multiple evade actions in a turn, against different enemies, stack? So if you want to dodge three gunmen, you can roll three evades?
02:25:39 MJ: That's actually hilarious
ER.
02:26:16 ER: you can dodge as much as you want, just need to divide your attention between attackers
02:26:47 syv: 'Cause at Rakiit's agility, she'll virtually never fail.
02:26:48 ER: Not other than ending your turn if you fail the agility roll
02:27:56 syv: Can an evade be rerolled by evading again? Say, if you got a 10 or 11, evade again so you get a chance of 14 or something?
02:28:55 syv: Okay. So Rakiit is *very* evasive, but not completely absurd.
02:29:34 ER: turns out that I don't want to roll 200 times for someone with +5 Agility to finally roll max
02:30:05 syv: For shit that simple I'll just make a simple python script for you.
02:30:17 syv: Or, hell, just teach you how. That's like four lines of code.
02:30:17 Devastator: Just gotta get it to +6. Then it'll be absurd.
02:30:19 ER: I probably should have made the defensive actions cost focus or stamina or something
02:30:35 Devastator: I have no idea how the stats work anyhow.
02:30:44 syv: Didn't I suggest that? Making parry and evade both need 1 focus?
02:31:01 MJ: I new that sacraficibng everything for agility would pay off in the end~
02:31:27 syv: I also suggested allowing people to roll accuracy even when they're already going to hit, to force a critical.
02:31:49 ER: ...and the "sacraficibng" was totally intentional?
02:31:52 Piecewise__ is now known as piecewise
02:32:11 MJ: No, but I can't sacrafice easilly
02:32:25 syv: That word's just impossible to spell, so no point trying to correct it. :P
02:34:45 ER: these rules could certainly be better refined
02:35:13 syv: Srfacicie nhinotg in the end. Poor ciohe of wrdos.
02:35:17 Devastator: Other people are supposed to drop that word on you,
ER.
02:35:50 MJ: Nah that's just what mad doctor in Tachhell appears to be :P
02:36:55 MJ: It's weird saying Mad doctor character and not be referring to one of mine.
02:37:37 Devastator: Welcome to the team,
MJ. It'll be weird if Alida lives long enough to get fluffy.
02:37:39 ER: Tachel is probably the name of the universe
02:38:58 syv: It should be spelled "Tac'hel", then, to split up the "ch".
02:42:14 ER: I don't think that Rakiit was necessarily trained as a soldier at all.
02:42:48 ER: There's a difference between a biomodded solider and a test subject for military biomods.
02:43:09 Devastator: The former is functional, and the latter is not?
02:46:33 MJ: Hmm, I'm not sure why she'd have good aim though
02:46:52 Devastator: Testing would presumably include some level of weapon use.
02:47:10 ER: Aim is easier to test than overall field performence.
02:47:19 syv: Also: She does not have good aim.
02:47:52 syv: She doesn't have aim as bad as the medieval crusader, or the two noncombatants.
02:50:08 ER: okay, so she's had practice shooting. Explains why she'd attached to the machinegun, ybh
03:04:20 Devastator: "Of course, he was no mere penguin—he was a type of grotesque called a birdman, as well as the assistant butler, Éclair Éklair Éklare."
03:04:51 Devastator: "Normally birdmen would, like the Supreme Being Peroroncino, have the head and wings of a bird of prey, as well as bird parts from the elbows and knees down, but for some reason this man was a penguin. Demiurge didn’t question it."
03:05:26 syv: Eh? Angel type rather than harpy type? Boring and stupid.
03:06:59 ER: Corven make me sad, just not having wings at all.
03:07:50 ER: Would Mina be more balanced in flight with wings replacing arms?
03:08:07 Devastator: Probably, but that would have meant no halberd.
03:08:42 Devastator: Plus removing someone's arms seemed like too much, even with permission to use shapechange.
03:09:35 ER: Just change her legs so she can carry and use the halberd with those
03:11:01 Devastator: I think she's got enough going on it'd be hard to explain to others.
03:11:11 Devastator: I am curious how far the ignorance of magic stuff goes.
03:11:25 Devastator: I somehow doubt it extends to not noticing large, functional wings.
03:12:01 syv: Unless Mina removes them I guess.
03:12:54 ER: that's the advantage of just gluing wings to your back. you can cut slice them off when you don't need them anymore~
03:13:19 Devastator: I think I shrank her some, too.
03:14:13 Devastator: "A severed limb will disappear if you cast a healing spell on a stub. So if you heal the stub after force-feeding a human an arm, what happens to the nutritional value? If repeated, would the subject starve to death?”
03:15:24 syv: Stop quoting him, he's already my favorite, there's nowhere for him to go after that. >.<
03:15:44 Devastator: I'm sorry, I was quoting and that line came up.
03:15:51 Devastator: He's also got a good english VA.
03:16:16 syv: He has a merely decent Jap VA, but the rest of the Eng cast sucks, so...
03:27:25 syv: While Japan Ainz is AWESOME and terrible.
03:27:43 ER: and every single time someone casts a spell in japanese is amazing
03:27:48 MJ: Also
ER if Amph is seen as a test experiment does she still have a concept of money? Or pprivate possesions really?
03:28:36 Devastator: I'll have to watch it in japanese with subs when we do S3 eventually.
03:28:39 ER: eh, up to you. Really it's all up to you, I'm just giving my perspective, it's your character tho
03:28:42 Devastator: to get the FULL AINZ EXPERIENCE.
03:29:33 MJ: I mean I could certainlly see lab experiment more than biosolider
03:30:27 syv: The dub should have the actors should the ability names in Japanese.
03:31:46 syv: "I CAST KAWAII KUMO NANI!"
03:32:19 Devastator: oh, speaking of that,
syv, in a turn or so I need to do a heroic speech for Saeko. I'd love a gibberish Japanese phrase to shout out.
03:33:11 syv: That one's just stuck in my head.
03:33:44 syv: "I'm a spider, so what?" IIRC.
03:34:02 syv: Name of an Isekai web novel. Sadly, it sucks.
03:34:14 syv: One of the unreadable translations I mentioned.
03:34:15 Devastator: Oh, was that the one you were talking about?
03:34:20 Devastator: with the spider harem?
03:35:19 syv: I'm not opposed to it, but I know nothing that's about or involves a spider harem.
03:35:36 MJ: Hmm,
syv what would you think about a bio experiment knowing currency then.
03:36:03 Devastator: They might have trained her with a reward system.
03:36:10 Devastator: which is like currency.
03:36:21 syv: I'll go with "it could be justified, so say she understands it vaugely"
03:41:01 Devastator: now what do you reward a bio experiment with?
03:41:10 Devastator: laser pointer chase time?
03:42:35 Devastator: well, it's
MJ's catgirl.
03:42:44 Devastator: Maybe they give her stimulants and toss her into a ball pit.
03:43:05 Devastator: I wonder what a cat would make of a ball pit..
03:43:47 MJ: Probably mice and stimulants.
03:43:55 MJ: Possibly mice on stimulatns.
03:44:38 Devastator: Hey, you'd probably get some follow-on effect from them.
03:44:44 MJ: Perhaps there was a barter system when they tested how she could work i na unit
03:44:53 Devastator: Mice on stimulants with LSD buttons on their skin.
03:45:28 MJ: heh, that's if she was really obediant.
03:48:54 MJ:
syv what's a happy cat look like?
03:50:06 syv: Thinned or closed eyes. Tail up if it's coming to greet someone.
04:14:22 Devastator: and more likely to contain drugs.
04:15:40 MJ: It is funny, he could literally be a scientest that Rakiit killed at some point and it would go better than the char he's playing
04:16:54 MJ: There is a chance it would go better
04:19:15 syv: What I'm currently wasting time watching. It's good.
04:19:57 syv: Twelve minutes in and he hasn't reached the first fog gate
04:20:14 syv: 's kinda bad, but that just makes it better.
04:20:18 Devastator: Okay, I think we've found our guy.
04:25:34 Devastator: so what killed him initially?
04:31:32 Devastator: you too good for that mod,
syv?
04:32:42 syv: No? I'm certainly more skilled than them, and have it already.
04:32:56 Devastator: I meant to make it entertaining.
04:35:23 syv: Ahhh. Hard to say. Depends on what's entertaining; I'd die, certainly. But there would be a lot more boring time than that vid, since it's heavily edited.
04:36:13 syv: Also, seed really, really matters. Down in New Londo, the bad spawns didn't matter since they were T-posed, but Artorias + Super S + Seath would be near impossible in most areas.
04:36:29 Devastator: Dubs has done his own youtube videos before.
04:36:48 MJ: I've forgotten whats dub's voice sounds like.
04:37:13 syv: No, it's not Dubs, Dubs isn't anywhere near as much of an asshole.
04:37:24 syv: Also, he sounds very different, yeah.
04:37:28 MJ: I haven't really see him be an asshole.
04:37:39 MJ: I've only watched two of his vids though
04:38:19 syv: He claims all the footage is his, claims all the stories are his, and then announces that he's starting a Patreon to support himself, despite all the footage and stories being stolen.
04:38:33 MJ: Ah. That is extremlly assholish.
04:38:53 syv: And when one of the people whose footage he stole posted a comment, not even all that insulted, he deleted it.
04:39:51 Devastator: guy needs a better weapon.
04:40:10 Devastator: yeah, not suprised at seeing that.
04:42:03 syv: That's not really fixable at that stage of the game. Need titanite shards to upgrade, even going to Rickert, and getting shards is pure luck. The fact he got ANY upgrade materials, especially it being demon titanite, is extremely lucky.
04:42:14 MJ: Huh, yeah looking into. This guy is a massive asshole.
04:43:02 Devastator: good odds of getting a weapon that can use it.
04:43:26 syv: Plus, almost all of those weapons are *really good*.
04:43:45 syv: Tomato apparently found a blacksmith giant hammer, which is also phenomenal.
04:45:58 Devastator: "Satisfied there was no corpse booby trap like he used to use when PK-ing in Yggdrasil"
05:07:21 MJ:
ER you should update tachhell. :p
05:08:06 MJ: hmm. I don't have a compelling argument prepared.
05:10:16 syv: "We have enabled Pinwheel chaos, meaning every time he summons something, it's a random FULL STRENGTH BOSS."
05:10:48 ER: maybe not pinwheel will be hard. ;P
05:12:35 MJ:
dev I need a compelling argument for why
ER should update tachhell
05:13:03 syv: Capra is the hardest in the randomizer, unless you skip.
05:13:04 ER: I'm wearing a hat which says "on break" on it
05:13:08 syv: Early and his room is tiny.
05:13:22 syv: Plus his dogs can be hell.
05:13:41 MJ: Guess we just need to wait three weeks and he'll switch back sleep.~
05:27:28 ER: well my podcast finished so I could start updating now but instead I'll watch twitch
05:28:31 MJ: I've never really listened to podcasts
05:29:10 MJ: What's the like idea behind them? Are you supposed to lisen to them while doing other htings?
05:29:47 ER: the idea is that you listen to them
05:29:48 syv: I nearly fell off my chair when I realized it was Kalameet. >.>
05:30:32 ER: looked kinda like an undead dragon up on the tower
05:31:05 syv: Would have been so much better.
05:33:57 Devastator: ..did one dragon get replaced with the other?
05:37:48 syv: Normally it's two gargoyles. One gargoyle was replaced with little Ornstein, who's essy, and Quelaag was up on the tower, and she's not bad in an open area. They figured they would partially beat O, then have an easy time with Q.
05:38:37 syv: But when they actually activated the boss, it turned out O was second, and *Kalameet*, arguably the hardest boss in the game, was their first.
05:47:12 MJ: Oh,
ER so the LMG can it burst fire? Or how does it's firing work?
05:47:50 ER: automatic and burst firing are illusions created by your perception of time, which is fake.
05:48:09 ER: Basically you can just make a bunch of snap shots.
05:48:18 MJ: I see, so I have an AR with a ludicrious amount of ammo :P
05:48:27 ER: for the LMG, that means over 100 shots per turn
05:48:53 MJ: ....how? I'm still a little confused as to how that works
05:49:48 ER: snapshotting doesn't end your turn, or really cost you anything at all
05:49:51 Devastator: with an 80% miss chance each.
05:50:00 Devastator: so better unload a lot.
05:50:03 syv: Appropriate for auto fire.
05:50:09 ER: 80% miss chance after rolling to hit
05:50:36 ER: she only has a +1 to hit :P
05:50:43 MJ: So if I fire a 100 rounds I hit 20 shots?
05:50:43 syv: If you roll to hit on only 20% of the shots, results should fuctionally be identical.
05:50:56 Devastator: How much reserve ammo do you have?
05:51:10 MJ: The shopkeepers might have more
05:51:21 Devastator: how lethal is each round?
05:51:22 syv: If you fire a 100 rounds, you'll get... 12 hits? I forget the precise % chance of a 10.
05:51:23 MJ: Yes Rakiit is nothing if not enthusastic
05:51:36 syv: Each round has a lethality of ~83%
05:51:54 MJ: So If I aim all of my snapshots hit?
05:52:12 ER: If you Aim they're not snapshots.
05:52:19 syv: If you aim all your shots hit. You can't snapshot after aiming because aiming ends your turn.
05:52:38 syv: But you can shoot at any moment after aiming, including during other people's turns, so the difference is trivial.
05:53:06 syv: Also, *about* 100 rounds,
MJ.
ER only said it was probably half, it's probably not exactly half.
05:53:13 MJ: I see. so I could Aim at say a mad doctor and then say I want to fire 25 rounds after aiming and if nothing else happens 25 rounds hit?
05:54:22 syv: You're also allowed to choose whether or not you'll fire another round, so you could have a conditional on there, like "keep firing until he's definitely dead". Which will happen on the second or third shot, most likely.
05:54:52 MJ: Hmm, so are there disabling shots in this?
05:55:15 syv: No. I asked, and wasn't allowed.
05:55:24 ER: This game work on uber lethality, non lethal is pretty much only going to happen by accident.
05:55:49 ER: Pain can knock someone out.
05:56:05 syv: I *did* suggest that
ER allow an actual accuracy roll while already aiming to target the wound specifically, like hitting a leg deliberately.
05:56:05 Devastator: how does that compare to the actual lethality of machinegun rounds?
05:56:47 MJ: Wouldn't that be more for disabalment versus instant death?
05:57:00 syv: In Tactihell, any time you take lethal damage, you roll 1d6. 1-3 is instantly dead, 4-5 is "not dead, but knocked out of the fight and dead without immediate treatment", 6 is "Just pain and minor injury", IIRC.
05:58:04 syv: Alexander's plate armor gives him armor 4, so he can tank your gunshots.
05:58:04 ER: Though 83% applies to a creature without Determination or a human who doesn't mind dying. Humans have 3 determination at minimum, so even if you roll a 1 you can pump 3 determination into it and be mortally wounded and dying rather than dead.
05:58:29 syv: Yes. That's why I said it'd actually take 2 or 3 shots.
05:58:43 ER: If you meet someone with like 7 determination and they want to survive at all costs, that's a 0% lethality.
05:59:06 syv: But if you have a gun they still just die.
05:59:29 syv: Same for Alexander, really. You can just keep shooting him until he flubs enough resistance rolls to collapse from the pain.
05:59:29 MJ: So what I'm hearing is to Aim and then keep shooting until things die.
05:59:47 Devastator: That sounds like how you kill things with a gun.
06:00:01 syv: You can't aim if they're within four tiles, which is the biggest trouble.
06:00:01 MJ: Though wouldn't I need a bigger gun to pen Alexanders armor?
06:00:26 syv: Yes. But if an attack hits, it always deals its pain damage, even if it doesn't deal lethal damage due to armor.
06:00:48 MJ: So Feed Alexander pain meds before shoving him into combat. Got it
06:00:52 syv: If Alexander got ahold of painkillers, he'd be invulnerable to LMG fire, but without them he's merely resistant.
06:01:04 ER: also high rolls can cause maiming and such through armor.
06:01:20 MJ: So Amph get's Stims Alexander gets pain killers and scribe gets...shrooms?
06:01:30 syv: Also, if we meet something with a ranged AP4 attack, he is in extreme danger, due to his low speed and nonexistent agility.
06:02:03 ER: Something with ranged AP5, actually.
06:02:28 MJ: Are hallucingenics a thing in Hell
ER?
06:02:32 ER: AP4 means "you need plate armor to deal with this"
06:02:46 ER: Those are a thing everywhere
MJ~
06:03:47 MJ: Hmm, so if Amph takes stims can she still move? Since it decreases her stamina?
06:03:50 syv: Oh, I guess it is AP must beat armor.
06:04:01 syv: Coulda sword it was AP3 beats Armor3
06:04:31 ER: If you stim up and lose stamina, you collapse under the weight of your LMG
06:04:50 MJ: Nah, Amph just needs some steroids
06:05:09 syv: Apparently pocket pistols are the only weightless gun.
06:05:11 ER: if she gets a sidearm someone else needs to carry it :V
06:05:43 syv: Really painkillers would be more than sufficient for her, and give more benefit than amphetamines.
06:06:14 syv: Amphetamines give +3 focus. Painkiller gives a focus fullheal, then -2 focus.
06:06:20 Devastator: just boost stamina, and then use regular stims.
06:06:38 Devastator: the solution is always more drugs.
06:06:42 syv: And since focus is largely only used for guns, which requires half focus, and she has 7 focus max, she'd never need more after a painkiller.
06:07:22 MJ: Nah, lets just pile more drugs onto her. No way that can go wrong~
06:08:09 ER: you remember how you died, right? :P
06:08:37 Devastator: someone tranquilized her to death?
06:08:43 syv: Really, we'd be best off if Rakiit gave her LMG to Alexander, and then got herself an SMG, like the ones the shopkeeps have.
06:09:12 syv: Alexander is a boss in melee, so if someone's within the four-tile min range he can beat them to death. Past that, he can still aim and autohit just as well as her.
06:09:59 syv: ...Though, wait, he still only has 3 max stam, so heh. He *can't*, not with his armor.
06:10:21 syv: Or, he'd be immobile anyway, though that's not a huge problem for him.
06:11:41 MJ: Yeah Rakiit probably died from like 15 different chemcials from high potency tranquiliziers and experimental combat drugs interacting in new and exicinting ways. But mostly just because she didn't have enough experimental combat drugs~
06:12:42 syv: "Died from cardiac arrest"
06:12:46 Devastator: Yup. As long as you make sure no stat hits zero, there's no problem.
06:12:56 syv: She apparently had enough to survive bullets.
06:13:56 Devastator: (In truth I'd expect after a certain quantity of running doses, some kinda overdose penalty or result table would kick in.)
06:14:59 MJ: Stimulant induced pyschosis?
06:15:01 syv: That doesn't need to be made before the players find drugs, and even once it's made, the players don't need to know the details~
06:15:33 Devastator: Yeah. I think you'd be okay with hiding that results table.
06:16:19 MJ:
ER does the store have drugs?
06:17:15 syv: ...I might as well answer, despite the question getting lost way back. The lethality of 5.56, like all gunshot wounds, is extremely variable and hard to quantify. But it's certainly nowhere near the lethality depicted in Tactihell.
06:18:23 syv: 50% instant death is right out, as the only way to instantly kill someone is with a brainshot. Not a headshot, the skull is good at deflecting bullets, and most of the face is quite nonessential to life, a brainshot. The area between the eyes, and a little above or below that, is instakill.
06:19:57 syv: Even a heartshot isn't instant death, you can exert yourself for a good few seconds after. I once saw a video where a guy shot himself in (or very close to) his heart with a pistol, and he took a good fifteen seconds to fall over, so without exertion it's remarkably slow.
06:20:16 Devastator: can't you also instantly kill someone via rifle-round shock effect blood pressure drop?
06:20:34 Devastator: IE, they're down immediately and dead very shortly after that.
06:20:48 syv: People can and do fall unconscious instantly from not-instantly-lethal gunshot wounds, but that's a psychological effect. People have fallen unconscious from being shot at and *missed*.
06:21:11 ER: I should simulate a chance of that~
06:21:23 Devastator: That LMG is already lethal enough.
06:21:24 syv: Hydrostatic shock is an extremely difficult to understand thing. It's debated over whether it exists, and if it does, the effects are very random.
06:21:45 Devastator: I've only heard about it through fiction.
06:23:06 syv: From *my own research*, not necessarily official opinions, I believe the reported cases of hydrostatic shock causing unconsciousness were due to the aforementioned scaring effect. However, IIRC it's also been *probably* confirmed that it does cause brain damage, even on survivable gunshot wounds. Not enough to be relevant in a gunfight, at least compared to all the other effects going on, but certainly relevant to people wh
06:25:37 syv: Wound cavity is a related effect, you can see it very well demonstrated by those videos of people shooting ballistics gelatin, where this massive ripple opens a giant space inside the gelatin. In living creatures, flesh is *very* flexible, and most won't take signifiant damage from that cavity. Muscle is essentially unharmed from a lethality standpoint, though it may rip tendons from bone if the wave hits right. Organs whi
06:26:13 syv: Ah, yes
Dev. Relevant to soldiers and cops who get shot, but survive and go home.
06:27:25 syv: Organs which cannot stretch well, like the brain, *can* be destroyed by that effect.
06:27:48 ER: poor brain, so important, so fragile
06:28:19 Devastator: except to tamping irons.
06:28:58 syv: Tamping iron was very low velocity relative to bullets. That's the point of what I just said; it wasn't fast enough to make that pressure wave.
06:29:29 Devastator: So you can survive tamping irons through the brain, as long as they are at relatively low speeds.
06:29:40 Devastator: The current record is 1.
06:29:54 syv: On the subject of 4-5 causing incapaciting and quickly lethal injuries, that's more in line with gunshot wounds to the torso, neck, or head. Anything which destroys an artery, vital organs, or is simply so painful and horrifying that the soldier can't fight, will knock them out of the fight and likely kill them quickly.
06:31:12 syv: Trained people will aim center of mass, and have a high chance of hitting something vital, so on an accurate shot that's going to be the dominant result. Especially the more powerful the bullet; 22 is slow and small, so it damages relatively little compared to 5.56 or .45.
06:32:09 ER: what if the target is a grizzly bear?
06:32:12 syv: Finally, no matter where you're shot, it's a deep wound which can get infected, and you're likely dirty, in a very unclean area, and without immediate medical care. Infections can easy kill you no matter how minor the actual gunshot was. That's long term though.
06:33:08 syv: Uhh. I wouldn't trust 22 to penetrate its skull, though .45 should, and 9mm probably will? I don't know how tough a grizzly's skull is compared to an alligator, but .45 penetrates large alligator skull.
06:33:39 syv: Out of a pistol, even. I'm virtually always referring to out-of-a-pistol performance with pistol calibers...
06:33:54 Devastator: Bears are really tough.
06:34:06 ER: dunno, just heard that bears are really good at surviving bullets.
06:34:32 Devastator: They have a lot of fur and a lot of meat on them. Very hard to get a really vital hit on that.
06:34:42 Devastator: That said, it is far from impossible.
06:34:50 syv: As far as getting organ shots, the problem is that there's a LOT of mass to penetrate, and I doubt it's neatly targetable from the front. Humans, humans have a few inches of bone and muscle before the heart and lungs, so penetration isn't a big issue. It's mostly relevant for shots from the side.
06:35:40 ER: humans, in our infinite wisdom, made weapons that happen to be really good at killing ourselves foremost.
06:35:55 syv: Rifle calibers should do fine, assuming you target a vital spot correctly, but I don't have a good idea of how much penetration is needed, so can't say about intermediates like 5.56.
06:37:24 Devastator: Probably be fine. Just don't miss.
06:37:34 syv: I really would not trust pistols on anything short of a headshot, because pistols are weak. Unless, of course, it's a bigass hunting revolver or something. Still, normal pistols are optimized for anti-human use.
06:40:40 syv: Giving bears a natural Armor2 wouldn't be out of place in Tactihell. Honestly, Armor3 would work, since the people shooting likely wouldn't be aiming terribly precisely, and wouldn't know where the vitals are aside from the head.
06:41:19 ER: but then what's a bear in plate armor? :P
06:41:39 Devastator: so go get one of those.
06:41:43 MJ: Is there such thing as dex AC?
06:41:57 syv: And 5.56... well, it does do a lot of structural damage at short range since the bullet tends to tear itself and go everywhere, but the effect is still rather shallow, so it's not unreasonable for a bear to mostly get the pain as a mechanical effect.
06:43:04 syv: Really anything with AP5 wouldn't give a shit about platemail, or the bear behind it.
06:43:30 MJ: shouldn't techincally a .30 caliber round not give a shit about platemail? ~
06:43:39 syv: That's antitank level stuff, considering our one AP5 is *breech loaded*.
06:43:51 syv: Yeah, 30 should go through.
06:44:26 syv: But I won't complain, plus a bear's plate armor would arguably be a lot thicker, and much more curved from the front.
06:44:50 ER: maybe bears are terrifying.
06:45:07 MJ:
ER do you want to play apex?
06:45:16 ER: there's supposed to be PC bears in Ocean
06:45:36 ER: Not for now,
MJ. Not feeling good enough to game this moment.
06:45:48 ER: I really should be going to sleep.
06:46:02 Devastator: I'm mostly reading.
06:46:05 syv: ...Hmm, the breach-loaded gun is actually AP7, not AP5. So, uh, yeah, accurate statting on that 20mm you got there.
06:46:21 syv: I'll try any game once, but I don't have it downloaded.
06:46:40 syv: You want to play Dark Souls? Or "Spider-man"?
06:46:56 ER: spider man with extra swords
06:47:03 syv: Or Warframe? I think
ER was the one with Warframe though.
06:47:05 Devastator: and wistfully speculating about how many years it'll take to do horrifying things to Alida, either through pure thought or induced madness.
06:47:15 MJ: uhhhh, I don't have darksouls DL'd. And spiderman sounds way advanced beyond my current mental state
06:47:21 ER: I never ended up playing warframe >_>
06:47:34 syv: Why were you joking about Clem then?
06:47:53 syv: I thought he wasn't found until like Sedna, which is midgame.
06:47:58 MJ: One of my fraternity brothers does like testing work for warframe actually.
06:48:34 ER: I'm just naturally drawn to memes, even if I'm not familiar with them.
06:48:48 ER: It's a feature that I gain from being a level 7 memelord
06:48:52 syv: I was gonna make a joke about it not showing, but no, it actually does in general. They haven't had a super buggy release for a looong time.
06:49:15 syv: How about Surviv.io then,
MJ?
06:49:17 Devastator: in game years, too.
06:49:26 Devastator: Unless it goes to like six months between witches.
06:49:59 syv: Twin Grakatas are fucking amazing, too. Absurd considering how easy they are to get.
06:50:05 ER: ah, do you want me to provide sleepy covering fire?
06:50:23 MJ: Sure. Another gun can't hurt.
06:50:32 Devastator: do you want me there?
06:50:36 ER: Apex is beond my current mental capacity, but surviv is probably fine
06:50:37 Devastator: I haven't played it for a while.
06:50:39 syv: Maximally modded, their fire rate was somewhere above 300 shots... per *second*.
06:50:46 Devastator: aight, give me a link.
06:50:48 MJ: Let's get this fucking bread gents.
06:52:17 MJ: I have the meme that introduced it to me on my phone, but I don't know of a good way to upload it onto this chat
06:53:04 syv: Imgur is the best, but if you're a lazy scrublord you could send it to me over Discord, then copy the link.
06:53:18 syv: And are we waiting
ER or
Devastator?
06:53:37 MJ: nameless player has to be
dev
06:54:08 syv: The entire area is empty of visuals and objects for me.
06:55:17 Devastator: goddamn it, it just lagged to hell thre.
06:55:41 MJ: My roommate is playing leauge and we have a stream on so I might lag massivelly
06:55:56 Devastator: which was annoying because I was going to punch shotgun guy to death.
07:00:58 Devastator: yeah, sometimes the game does that.
07:00:58 syv: (
syv) The entire area is empty of visuals and objects for me.
07:01:05 MJ: Also is this the first game we've played where we are all playing as a squad?
07:01:27 Devastator: I did 619 damage, you guys did.. 58
07:03:23 Devastator: sometimes I get that when the assets don't load properly.
07:04:03 Devastator: So you guys are duoing it?
07:08:51 Devastator: just bad play on me there.
07:12:20 Devastator: damn, wrong weapon change.
07:12:46 MJ: Arlight, I think I might be done as well.
07:12:51 syv: What is autofill and how do I turn it off?
07:13:11 Devastator: you click on 'no fill' and it doesn't give you extra random people on your squad, if you aren't full.
07:13:15 syv: Why would you suggest playing a shooter when you don't have a mouse?
07:13:22 Devastator: becuase he's just that good.
07:13:54 MJ: Because I don't make good decisions.~
07:14:17 Devastator: I am annoyed I couldn't win that out, though..
07:14:25 Devastator: probably only would have needed one or two more kills.
07:15:39 Devastator: have to do that when you have a mouse.
07:16:09 ER: what other terrible games should we play?
07:16:39 syv: I'd suggest Hunt, but it's likely not updated and lag would be a problem.
07:16:57 syv: Also, Warframe and DaS are always options with me.
07:17:23 Devastator: DaS randomizer mod? Sadly, with bad net means no stream.
07:18:00 syv: If you want I could set that up to play this weekend. Sat or Sun after midnight.
07:18:44 syv: Alternatively, Egan could stream, and summon me, or be summoned.
07:18:57 ER: I'm actually not sure why I asked that question, seeing as I don't want to game right now and I'm feeling tired and should sleep
07:19:19 ER: and if I WERE feeling good to play something right now, I'd offer to show off fear and hunger!
07:19:21 MJ: Go to bed
ER or play Apex with me
07:19:36 Devastator: It's not even midnight! ;-p
07:19:44 ER: the numbers are irrelevant, my head feels bad and I have no focus
07:21:57 syv: Hmm. If you want something mindless to play,
MJ, we could do Running with Rifles.
07:22:14 syv: Though I'm going to guess you actually have nothing except Apex installed;
07:22:30 ER: pick something gamepaddy? :P
07:22:48 ER: aw, grief syndrome. I love that game!
07:23:07 syv: Yeah, I should really get around to bugfixing the challenge mod...
07:23:31 syv: It's just so terribly written.
07:24:21 ER: fun to give it another shot in multiplayer, though I'd have to work out how to fort my porwards or whatever again so that it can actually work
07:25:04 syv: Oh. Something notable there. There's no less than two overhaul mods which are combined for that challenge mod. The unpacker tool which lets you see the raw code does in fact preserve comments. BOTH the overhaul mod writers must have had to heavily experiment with the code to figure out what they needed to change.
07:25:07 ER: I ended up being the host last time, but I've got a different router to work with now
07:26:11 syv: The ONLY comments in the entire damn thing are from the first overhaul guy, and they mostly only say what a few character-specific variables he added do. When that's already pretty clear from their names, as he's the only coder to use meaningful variable names.
07:27:12 ER: time to go in, sort the chaos, and then not leave any comments!
07:27:20 syv: To be fair, the original Japanese writers can be excused from their insane variable names, since they clearly didn't really know English. Likewise, their comments would undoubtably ne useless to me even if they did exist. But I know for a fact that both of the overhaul people spoke English well.
07:27:22 Devastator: the challenge mod, figuring out how it works!
07:28:22 syv: Most of modding the damn game is figuring out what does what, and where it is. Usually the actual code changes are very simple and clear, because the program, structurally, isn't too terrible.
07:28:50 ER: I'd assume that part would be harder :P
07:28:59 MJ: I'm actually playing on my roommates xbox
syv
07:29:22 ER: oh yeah, game consoles exist?
07:29:28 MJ: I have no answer for why he's using the inferior console of this generation but he is
07:29:29 syv: We wouldn't be able to play with you then,
MJ. PC does not cross with Xbox, or Playstation.
07:30:28 syv: IIRC there was one single game that allowed full cross-console play. One of the Red Orchestras, I thiiink. Nobody liked it.
07:30:48 ER: there have been a few attempts at that
07:30:52 MJ: I think Apex is planning on it
07:31:22 syv: They'll probably hit a large backlash.
07:31:30 ER: though it's often just PC and one of the consoles, I guess
07:31:44 syv: Console kiddies hate playing with PC, because mouse is so much better for shooters.
07:32:00 syv: Yeah, plus that. Microsoft and Sony hate eat other.
07:32:14 ER: just make gamepad lobbies seperate from mouse and keyboard lobbies.
07:32:36 syv: Result: Console and PC are segregated.
07:32:44 ER: I'm pretty sure that you can plug a mouse into a console.
07:33:10 syv: I have never heard of that.
07:34:12 ER: dunno, not really into consoles, but I think that's possible in this generation, not that many games would support it, I guess.
07:34:41 MJ: I think it is possible and I would agree that mouse is way better for shooters. But eh.
07:35:09 MJ: Convience is a powerful motivator :P
07:35:10 ER: ...I'm pretty sure that you could plug a keyboard into the dreamcast through some wizardry. There's no reason for it to be impossible.
07:35:47 ER: come to the PC side
MJ, we have *very* entertaining bugs!
07:36:15 MJ: I've come to the PC side everytime I go home. But college is a console place~
07:36:32 ER: also I'm going to put my money where my mouth is now and close my eyes so that maybe I'll feel better.
07:36:35 syv: Yes there is. If you can't use KB+M, you have to buy console-specific peripherals, which you're less likely to already have.
07:36:48 ER has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:37:28 syv: I also have an Xbox 360 controller-attachable keyboard, which is about the size of a very old flip phone, but that's not really usable for games. Besides maybe Dark Souls.
07:45:19 MJ: Man I am really bad at Apex.
07:45:54 MJ: I shall blame the controller as my ansectors did :P
07:49:09 Devastator: That's why the Donner Party failed to make it into California, remember?
07:52:03 MJ: True, but I'm not sure cannabilism is the answer to it. I mean sure it's an answer, but it's not always the best answer :P
07:54:49 Devastator: aren't drugs the solution?
08:06:14 MJ: Hmm, I suppose most drugs are made in solution so yes :P
08:08:55 MJ:
Dev, random question but what's the legal drinking age in Canada?
08:10:09 Devastator: Varies depending on province.
08:11:02 MJ: Intresing. Well anyways, good night
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