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22-03-2024 02:07:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: yo egan.
22-03-2024 02:39:49 -!- Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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22-03-2024 03:00:21 -!- MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com has joined #einsteinianroulette
22-03-2024 03:00:27 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: lo devastator Egan
22-03-2024 03:00:57 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: boop
22-03-2024 03:01:02 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: heya MJ.
22-03-2024 03:01:02 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: how u
22-03-2024 03:01:26 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: Eh, about the same as usual
22-03-2024 03:01:40 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: How're you Egan? 
22-03-2024 03:02:38 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: how're you dev?
22-03-2024 03:02:40 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: was sick for a while
22-03-2024 03:02:43 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: getting better now
22-03-2024 03:02:48 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: Oh that sucks, with what?
22-03-2024 03:03:42 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: no idea
22-03-2024 03:04:04 < MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com: mmm, what kind of symptoms?
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22-03-2024 03:52:08 -!- Ping timeout with server...
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22-03-2024 03:52:30 -!- Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
22-03-2024 03:52:30 -!- Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
22-03-2024 04:34:19 -!- syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com has joined #einsteinianroulette
22-03-2024 04:35:36 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Salamence
22-03-2024 04:36:06 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: yo
22-03-2024 04:36:46 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: 'pokémon that were formerly overpowered, but got out powercreeped?'
22-03-2024 04:37:49 < * syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com shrugs
22-03-2024 04:37:53 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: yo
22-03-2024 04:38:27 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: what's up tonight?
22-03-2024 04:39:49 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I got called into work because the usual Fri nightshift guy's car broke down
22-03-2024 04:39:57 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Outside of that, nothing
22-03-2024 04:40:05 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Luckily I was awake anyway
22-03-2024 04:40:32 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Would've sucked if I was awake until six doing errands and such
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22-03-2024 04:41:35 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: hey mj
22-03-2024 04:42:28 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hello MJ
22-03-2024 04:42:31 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: And hi Egan
22-03-2024 04:42:46 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I would ask if you want to do anything but it's 0042
22-03-2024 04:43:25 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: this, is true
22-03-2024 04:44:03 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: meh, I'll stay awake a little longer
22-03-2024 04:44:13 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: but afk for now~
22-03-2024 04:44:17 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: bye bye
22-03-2024 04:44:19 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I am free to play game and murder enemy
22-03-2024 04:44:22 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Oh alright
22-03-2024 04:44:23 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Bye
22-03-2024 04:44:27 -!- Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn has quit [Quit: I can put anything here!]
22-03-2024 04:44:45 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: kk
22-03-2024 04:45:56 -!- MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
22-03-2024 04:46:19 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Wow
22-03-2024 04:46:23 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: What a driveby
22-03-2024 04:46:28 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Didn't even say hi
22-03-2024 04:47:17 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: MJ was by earlier.
22-03-2024 04:47:19 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: for a bit.
22-03-2024 04:47:29 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: this is more like a spiral off an off-ramp.
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22-03-2024 04:48:47 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Ahhh
22-03-2024 04:48:51 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: His phone
22-03-2024 04:48:56 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hello MJ's phone
22-03-2024 04:49:05 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: You're serving your master well
22-03-2024 04:49:08 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: *pat pat*
22-03-2024 04:49:49 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: "I'm Helping!"
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22-03-2024 05:28:21 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hello again, Egan
22-03-2024 05:29:11 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: hello again, syv
22-03-2024 05:40:47 -!- MJ!mj@9243-2417-7121-02bk-6080-vs79-qk32-28y2.res6.spectrum.com has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
22-03-2024 05:41:39 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: syv, did I tell you about the FMD system I was thinking of last time I was kinda working on it?
22-03-2024 05:42:07 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Possibly?
22-03-2024 05:42:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I don't know when the last time was
22-03-2024 05:42:40 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: I sent you a charsheet I think
22-03-2024 05:42:44 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: there was lore in it
22-03-2024 05:46:24 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I vaugely recall this, yes
22-03-2024 05:46:26 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Why?
22-03-2024 05:46:39 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Separately, are you up for playing Valheim?
22-03-2024 05:47:20 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: wellll, there are five mundane stats and five magic stats, when you roll a success you get an xp in that stat, if you get five xp or something then you can gain a perk associated with a mundane stat or a new power or power upgrade from a magic stat
22-03-2024 05:50:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Complexity
22-03-2024 05:50:42 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: which means that you get upgrades at least thematically related to things that you roll more often, and things you have skill in, because more successes
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22-03-2024 05:51:21 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hello, MJ's phone.
22-03-2024 05:51:45 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I don't really see the appeal, Egan.
22-03-2024 05:52:20 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: what instead then?
22-03-2024 05:53:19 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Gaining skill based on what you do when you have screentime messes with the logic of the setting.  What about what you do when offscreen?  Do people train?  What about powergamers; can someone become OP by spamming fireballs at a tree?  Will rarely-used builds naturally progress much worse than blaster builds?
22-03-2024 05:54:06 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: A regular levelup system is more balanced, more coherent, and broadly easier to design and use.
22-03-2024 05:56:30 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: If the system is like PS, with a limited mana bar, and level-by-use only applies to magic, then it's better justified.  Any roll has a cost, so you still have to try and be efficient with them.  But this also goes in the exact opposite direction of the purpose of PS' design; it encourages snowballing and specialization, rather than diversity and cleverness.  It incentivizes making yourself into a really good hammer.
22-03-2024 05:58:03 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It'd also work well with some kind of Evangelion-like justification, where players only have access to their powers for a very limited span of time, which also happens to be the period of time where you REALLY have to be trying to kill the enemy.  But it still incentivizes the worst kind of powergaming: minmaxing.
22-03-2024 05:59:03 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It doesn't really strike me as actually adding anything to a game in practice, aside from the vauge desire to see people using the skills they advance (which organically happens if players are competent, anyways), and it has very deleterious effects on the game itself.
22-03-2024 06:06:45 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: My first thought is to reverse it.  You level up when you fail.  ;-p
22-03-2024 06:06:52 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: but yes, I agree with syv's thoughts.
22-03-2024 06:07:09 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: That actually fixes a lot of the problems x.x
22-03-2024 06:07:31 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Evangelion game where failure levels you up
22-03-2024 06:07:36 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: That would be so thematic
22-03-2024 06:10:41 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: but then having higher skill in something doesn't even help you level up faster >:(
22-03-2024 06:11:42 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Why would you possibly want that?
22-03-2024 06:12:00 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: That's the opposite of how reality works -and- the opposite of fun game design
22-03-2024 06:14:47 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: to incentivise actually being good at the skills for the things you want to do a lot?
22-03-2024 06:14:57 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: Yes, that lets you succeed and actually do things.
22-03-2024 06:15:58 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: ...Yeah.
22-03-2024 06:16:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Most games have *too much* of that incentive.
22-03-2024 06:16:44 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It's why overspecialization is so common and often the meta.
22-03-2024 06:17:42 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: But overspecialization is anti-fun unless you're controlling many separate overspecialized characters (which itself means the player isn't overspecialized), because it means you're doing the same repetitive thing more often.
22-03-2024 06:18:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: some people like that, though.
22-03-2024 06:18:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: If you have one godstat which is amazing and nineteen cursed stats that are likely to kill you if you try them... every encounter is going to be the same.
22-03-2024 06:18:53 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The difficulty isn't in encouraging that situation.  It already organically occurs very often, if you're not specifically trying to avoid it.
22-03-2024 06:19:02 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The difficulty is to make it feasible to *not* do that.
22-03-2024 06:19:42 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The most interesting choices are when you have a few great stats, some good ones, some alright ones, and some bad ones.
22-03-2024 06:19:55 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Some encounters will suit your great stats perfectly, and you can feel awesome
22-03-2024 06:20:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Some of them will be exactly opposed to you, and you'll have to figure out how to leverage your poorer stats effectively, which can be a fun puzzle.
22-03-2024 06:20:45 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: I think I was thinking that magic might not be rolled for often enough, meaning there's no reason to care about those stats. giving faster growth for having a high stat at least gives you a reason to make a build
22-03-2024 06:20:46 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Some of them will be more neutral, and best solved with secondary stats, giving you a change of pace.
22-03-2024 06:21:10 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: You could just make it easier to level that stat, then.
22-03-2024 06:21:14 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah
22-03-2024 06:21:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Or if you want to encourage builds, make a class system or something.
22-03-2024 06:22:18 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Anyways
22-03-2024 06:22:29 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Do you want to play Valheim tonight yes/no?
22-03-2024 06:22:34 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:tij:msqu:vjpy:xznj:pkjn: no
22-03-2024 06:22:39 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Thank you.
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22-03-2024 06:27:00 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: I also suspect there won't be much issue finding players to do 'magic'.
22-03-2024 06:27:07 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:vwyo:zgyu:kmwl:njqr:umrj: I mean, magic is a bad idea in Quest, didn't stop Leng.
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22-03-2024 22:35:29 -!- Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
22-03-2024 22:35:29 -!- Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]
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22-03-2024 23:43:38 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: untrained swordscats sound good.
22-03-2024 23:45:00 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: so I bet you'll find this 'funny'
22-03-2024 23:45:13 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: new game dragon's dogma 2 has a like 3 dollar dlc
22-03-2024 23:45:23 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: to have the ability to remake your character
22-03-2024 23:45:45 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: unless you buy that there's no way to reset or make a different character after you've started
22-03-2024 23:48:10 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: ..you can't clear your save?
22-03-2024 23:48:17 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: nope!
22-03-2024 23:48:24 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: it's stored on their servers!
22-03-2024 23:51:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: wow, that's bullshit.
22-03-2024 23:51:28 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: yeah, that game seems like the most bullshit yet
22-03-2024 23:51:51 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: in terms of microtransactions for things that REALLY SHOULDN'T BE
22-03-2024 23:52:16 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: such as paying to buy the fast travel item
22-03-2024 23:52:58 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: ..wasn't Dragon's Dogma a pretty good game?
22-03-2024 23:53:02 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: did someone buy the IP?
22-03-2024 23:53:38 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: same old publisher I think
22-03-2024 23:53:41 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: capcom
22-03-2024 23:53:57 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: they just decided this was the game to push the envelope on bullshit
22-03-2024 23:55:42 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:qhot:nlpj:jkiw:rwjz:wonx: what the hell, then?
22-03-2024 23:57:24 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: well, what's to explain?
22-03-2024 23:57:33 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: it's greedy bullshit
22-03-2024 23:58:06 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:gwr:lqpg:wkg:umyi:qlol: maybe the pirated version of DD2 will be fun since you don't have to buy basic features