30-09-2023 01:33:29 -!- MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com has joined #einsteinianroulette
30-09-2023 01:34:52 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: hiya devastator Egan
30-09-2023 01:35:13 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: heya
30-09-2023 01:35:17 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: playing a game
30-09-2023 01:35:24 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2373630/Moonring/
30-09-2023 01:35:44 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: hello.
30-09-2023 01:36:48 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: hiya
30-09-2023 01:38:33 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: Cool asthetic ER
30-09-2023 01:46:24 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: yesh
30-09-2023 02:32:42 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: I've been amused at the return of popular 2D lately.
30-09-2023 02:33:02 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: It's a Tredn
30-09-2023 02:33:05 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: ^trend
30-09-2023 02:33:13 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: probably cheaper to design for.
30-09-2023 02:33:31 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: good 3d can be really expensive these days.
30-09-2023 02:34:28 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: Yeah
30-09-2023 02:43:22 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: well, retro style 3d is also a trend
30-09-2023 02:46:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: which may well be easier than modern 3d.
30-09-2023 02:46:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: although I suspect they wont' be redoing 'early 3d', just like they aren't doing really bad 2d.
30-09-2023 02:46:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: well, mostly.
30-09-2023 02:48:14 < Egan!Egan@2600:1700:4f01:ono:vhrj:ryrz:gvih:lhkm: yeah, it's easier to make that stuff now
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30-09-2023 03:27:09 < MJ!mj@8055-5036-3314-21gu-8o4i-r3r5-1903-m499.res8.spectrum.com: Alright. I should go to bed. Goodnight
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30-09-2023 04:54:12 -!- syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com has joined #einsteinianroulette
30-09-2023 04:54:27 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: mlem
30-09-2023 04:54:38 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: For once I actually have a job
30-09-2023 04:58:06 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Compared to our backup, temperature is reading seven degress low (celcius), and dew point is reading one degree high.  So DP is 8 higher than TEMP.  Impossible.
30-09-2023 04:59:41 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The automated system has decided DP must be wrong and TEMP the right one, I'm guessing because it's hardcoded to trust TEMP if there's a conflict.
30-09-2023 05:01:54 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: uh oh.
30-09-2023 05:01:58 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: so which one's broken?
30-09-2023 05:02:06 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Temp, it seems.
30-09-2023 05:02:19 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: welp.
30-09-2023 05:02:28 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It's normal for our backup (a handheld measuring temperature a quarter mile away) to be different by about a degree.
30-09-2023 05:03:03 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: But being off by seven degrees C is... very, very exceptional.  I've never seen that before.
30-09-2023 05:04:45 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: One of my coworkers noticed the "valid" sensor reading was implausible, but didn't know how to get the discarded DP reading to see what was wrong; he just replaced both.  And didn't call it in.
30-09-2023 05:07:35 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It feels validating to be the guy who knows the system well enough to figure out what's actually wrong.  Though, in all honesty, it doesn't *really* matter.
30-09-2023 05:09:05 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Even id we distributed temperature readings eight C low, it would perhaps raise some eyebrows somewhere but I doubt it'd impact anything.  And since the system's saying DP's out, someone would try to repair it, and notice the issue themself.
30-09-2023 05:14:25 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: I think temperature affects brake performance for landing.
30-09-2023 05:16:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I wouldn't know, I'm not really a plane person.  My dad would.  >.>
30-09-2023 05:16:31 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Temp affects air pressure, but we have a separate pressure sensor
30-09-2023 05:16:45 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Three, actually
30-09-2023 05:17:23 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Presumably it gets triple redundancy while temp/dp get zero redundancy because pressure actually WOULD be really bad if we reported incorrect values
30-09-2023 05:18:51 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: Pressure would be worse.
30-09-2023 05:19:02 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: from what I know, wrong pressure could mean slamming into the ground or misjudging altitude.
30-09-2023 05:19:07 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah
30-09-2023 05:19:22 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: Temp might change runway grip estimates, which is less serious from what I know.
30-09-2023 05:19:41 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: and probably some things about engine performance for takeoffs.
30-09-2023 05:19:57 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Seems logical, though I don't know.
30-09-2023 05:20:30 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I feel like we should be trained on that kinda thing, *what* our readings actually mean in practice, but we aren't.
30-09-2023 05:21:01 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: We're purely trained in how to take readings, and how to report them.  Nothing about what they mean to a pilot, or in a broader meteorological sense.
30-09-2023 05:21:50 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I am pretty sure at least one of my coworkers wouldn't quite understand what's wrong with DP being eight degrees above temperature
30-09-2023 05:22:36 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: And most of them don't understand how any of it's really relevant to pilots.  I know what I know purely because I've talked to my dad, who has an understanding of these readings from pilot training.
30-09-2023 05:23:19 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: baaah
30-09-2023 05:23:39 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I complain about my free lunch job too much
30-09-2023 05:24:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: May I ask you about your PM on the wargaming stuff?  We don't have to chat about it now if you'd rather not.
30-09-2023 05:25:02 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: sure.
30-09-2023 05:25:04 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: go for it.
30-09-2023 05:25:07 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: I've got time tonight.
30-09-2023 05:25:24 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Right
30-09-2023 05:25:28 < * syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com checks the PM again
30-09-2023 05:26:12 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: What is "Shock" in a normal wargame?
30-09-2023 05:26:38 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Fire I'd take as attack, cohesion as you said is HP, and Morale seems obvious
30-09-2023 05:26:58 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I used shock as short range fire, really, so I'd expect it to be different.
30-09-2023 05:27:37 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: fire damages cohesion, shock damages morale.
30-09-2023 05:27:48 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Ahhh
30-09-2023 05:27:50 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hm.
30-09-2023 05:28:21 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Why?  Why have two attack/HP pairs?
30-09-2023 05:30:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: for variety and unit mixing.
30-09-2023 05:30:40 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: like you can have formations that work against different sorts of units.
30-09-2023 05:31:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: in lines, they have more fire and less morale, say.
30-09-2023 05:33:04 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: you can add more stats, like 'strength' for how many actual dudes there are in the unit, or 'defense' for an overall multiplier to how hard a unit is.
30-09-2023 05:42:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Hm.
30-09-2023 05:42:40 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Variety and unit mixing is the reason I have so much complexity for mine.
30-09-2023 05:43:08 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I had considered having cohesion and morale, but they were somewhat of a gestalt stat, playing off each other.
30-09-2023 05:45:41 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: using a third statistic to feed the other two is relatively common.
30-09-2023 05:46:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: but you can do whatever.
30-09-2023 05:46:11 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: those stats are just used to make entertaining battles.
30-09-2023 05:46:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah
30-09-2023 05:46:30 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I'm well aware that complexity and fun are enemies
30-09-2023 05:46:46 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: PS is still my best system, and also my simplest in many ways
30-09-2023 05:46:49 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: not necessarily.
30-09-2023 05:46:52 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: but yes.
30-09-2023 05:46:56 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: PS is just great.
30-09-2023 05:47:25 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: PS was built off a good base of PW games, and when PW games were fresh in my mind
30-09-2023 05:50:22 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: anyway, Irony is having fun in Trence's memories.
30-09-2023 05:50:28 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: so you might want to read this bit of Extinction.
30-09-2023 05:51:03 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The warfare game... the current design I have in the PM is intended mostly for simplifying actions taken during gameplay.  The stat complexity is inherited from the gun game system, which broadly has... ten stats for a character.
30-09-2023 05:53:04 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: It's intended to target a fairly medium level of detail.  Where you're managing squads basically, in conflicts between platoon~company sized units.
30-09-2023 05:53:47 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: hmm.
30-09-2023 05:55:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I've considered handling it with a lower resolution, so the platoon is the smallest unit, with any changes to the units within the platoon affecting the platoon's stat balance.  That's more like the wargames you're talking about, I think, with individual platoons having a few stats and an expectation of there being more like three+ in a conflict.
30-09-2023 05:56:13 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: But I felt with the numbers I'm using that it lost a lot of what I wanted.  My game's fairly silly, deliberately so, where you have SMG and AMR units as very relevant unit types.
30-09-2023 05:56:40 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: In a more realistic design, individual infantrymen are way more similar than they are different, regardless of gear.
30-09-2023 05:59:30 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: The intended gameplay of this is for you to have three to fivish platoons, which have individually specialized squads, then you arrange them on a larger field and focus on 1v1s or perhaps 2v1s to gain territorial control.  With the expectation that you'll only have three-ish actual fights with enemy units before the battle is functionally decided.
30-09-2023 06:00:32 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I do think there's a lot of issues with this, note
30-09-2023 06:00:59 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: with platoons you're probably not talking about large unit combat anymore.
30-09-2023 06:01:06 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: they're not tiny, but they aren't really that large.
30-09-2023 06:01:13 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I'm working on it out of addiction, not really because I think it's a clever or particularly good.
30-09-2023 06:01:14 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah
30-09-2023 06:02:14 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I didn't think about my description very well when I wrote the PM.  They're "large units" in the sense that normally when I work on this kinda thing, the smallest unit is a single soldier or maybe a fireteam.
30-09-2023 06:05:19 < Devastator!chatzilla@2001:569:fac0:kppq:msom:ozzq:ktpk:twmh: ahh, I thought you meant like regimental combat, like napoleonic era.
30-09-2023 06:05:38 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Mhm.  That's more what the words I said mean.
30-09-2023 06:06:02 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: Blame me being quick and dirty
30-09-2023 06:06:38 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: I don't really think about unit sizes beyond squad much, so they're not natural for me to use.  I had to google them just now to be sure I was using them correctly.  ._.
30-09-2023 08:11:26 < syv!GreatWyrmG@155-004-684-709.biz.spectrum.com: A thunderstorm *and* serious sensor outages, oh boy I have a real job
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30-09-2023 21:39:36 -!- Topic for #einsteinianroulette: MJ should read Extinction!
30-09-2023 21:39:36 -!- Topic set by syv [Thursday 29 June 2023, 06:20:36]