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31-07-2021 03:41:04 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: heyo
31-07-2021 03:42:42 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: could talk about how to run that deployment arms race thing.
31-07-2021 03:43:53 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: heyo
31-07-2021 03:44:09 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Practicing for tourney ATM, but I'd be interested in reading.
31-07-2021 03:45:53 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: oh ok.
31-07-2021 03:47:19 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: The biggest issue is that you need a combat resolution method that provides feedback, and it'd be the core of the game.
31-07-2021 03:47:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: in general, I'd probably steal something from a normal wargame, but simplify it a bit.
31-07-2021 03:48:01 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Combat resolution method could bog things down if you're trying to do logistics.
31-07-2021 03:48:07 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Would have to be very simple, yeah.
31-07-2021 03:48:08 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Since we're going to be dealing with deployment and resource management, I think essentially adding up all the troops into a big pile o' numbers would work best.  Could have like three or four numbers.
31-07-2021 03:48:11 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: There's a way to do it.
31-07-2021 03:48:37 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: was going to use logistic issues simply be distance and infrastructure base.  Like every 'zone' away from the capital reduces combat power by a percentage.
31-07-2021 03:48:53 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: fighting hurts it and you can spend resources to improve it.
31-07-2021 03:49:48 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Hum.
31-07-2021 03:50:00 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: What kinda resources are there?
31-07-2021 03:50:20 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Soldiers need food and munitions.
31-07-2021 03:50:28 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Vehicles need fuel and parts too.
31-07-2021 03:50:53 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Arguable, but I think cutting out food might be for the best.
31-07-2021 03:51:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: it'd also depend on the setting and time period.
31-07-2021 03:51:07 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: I wouldn't argue that.
31-07-2021 03:51:48 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: I do kinda want there to be local depletion of things like fuel, so one can emulate a blitzkrieg relying on looting enemy fuel dumps, say.
31-07-2021 03:51:56 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Though that's edging into strategy.
31-07-2021 03:52:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: That might require tracking resources on a per-zone level.
31-07-2021 03:52:45 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: which sounds like a lot of bookeeping.
31-07-2021 03:52:55 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Fair.
31-07-2021 03:55:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: also, a blitz campaign wouldn't fit well with the development process of an arms race.
31-07-2021 03:57:20 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: but yeah, resources based on time period and setting, really.
31-07-2021 03:57:33 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Could be anything.  Could be custom, even.
31-07-2021 03:58:33 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: What kind of numbers would you go with for the armies?
31-07-2021 03:59:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Stats or..?
31-07-2021 03:59:48 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: since it's about resource management, I'd expect units in the hundreds or thousands.
31-07-2021 03:59:58 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: although smaller more powerful units might come along too.
31-07-2021 04:00:27 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Stats I mean
31-07-2021 04:00:50 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Like, what kinda mechanisms would determine battles?  How would the strength of an army be determined?
31-07-2021 04:02:09 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Well, I was thinking that each army would take three or four shots at the other, per turn, dealing casulties.
31-07-2021 04:02:26 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: there'd be a stat for firepower and a stat for shock, ie, taking terrain.
31-07-2021 04:02:50 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: there'd probably be a defensive stat for firepower too.
31-07-2021 04:04:20 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Mm.  Different direction than I was thinking.
31-07-2021 04:04:32 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: What were you thinking?
31-07-2021 04:11:38 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Just numbers for infantry/armor/artillery/aircraft.
31-07-2021 04:12:08 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: If it's an arms race, things might not stay balanced or divided in such ways.
31-07-2021 04:12:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: there might very well be interdependancies, but I think a more general system is necessary.
31-07-2021 04:12:34 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Mostly static in how they work and how battles are resolved, with improvements just giving them some capacity adjustment against other types, with all units of a type for a faction being 100% identical.
31-07-2021 04:12:56 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Yeah, that sounds like a tactical or deployment game.
31-07-2021 04:13:00 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Well, you were talking about making an arms race that's different from usual.  :v
31-07-2021 04:13:17 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: ...Well yeah, deployment.
31-07-2021 04:13:26 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: You wanted logistics, no?
31-07-2021 04:14:44 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Logistics would be there to provide a countervailing force against the usual onrushing tide once one side gets a notable advantage in arms race.
31-07-2021 04:15:06 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: it'd make it tougher to push further towards the enemy.
31-07-2021 04:15:11 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Ahhh
31-07-2021 04:15:29 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: So you want an Arms Race game _with_ logistics, not _about_ logistics.
31-07-2021 04:15:42 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Yes.
31-07-2021 04:15:55 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah, not what I thought, then.
31-07-2021 04:16:00 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: it'd be about unit design, resource management, and maybe with some elements of combined arms.
31-07-2021 04:20:35 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Mhm.
31-07-2021 04:20:50 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: I was thinking of the latter two, with minimal of the first.
31-07-2021 04:20:53 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Logistics focus.
31-07-2021 04:22:57 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: nah, people like arguing about the first too much to take that away from them.  ;-p
31-07-2021 04:23:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: I was thinking of having it involve no design rolls.
31-07-2021 04:54:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: because they cause too much anger.
31-07-2021 05:33:45 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah, I've never been a fan of how Arms' Race's design system works.
31-07-2021 05:33:52 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Though I've never *really* played one.
31-07-2021 05:34:10 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Kaiju Com worked really well.
31-07-2021 05:43:46 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: mmm.
31-07-2021 05:43:51 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: well, in that case it was by being dumb.
31-07-2021 05:44:00 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: I figure any new system would bear some similarities to it.
31-07-2021 05:47:00 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: It'd also be less hidden.
31-07-2021 05:47:07 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: teams would be able to see the stats of their units.
31-07-2021 05:50:24 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: the mad scientists did have rolls.
31-07-2021 06:18:53 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Essentially arms race is where two teams guess as to how the game works, which is a complete black box.
31-07-2021 06:19:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: while trying to out-lawyer the other team.
31-07-2021 06:20:41 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: it's awful, mechanically speaking.
31-07-2021 06:20:43 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: Just awful.
31-07-2021 07:36:56 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Yeah, that's about what I've seen.
31-07-2021 07:37:03 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: And then with random dice rolls thrown in.
31-07-2021 07:37:19 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: While not knowing what the enemy is doing.
31-07-2021 07:37:29 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Which is just a recipe for disaster in every way.
31-07-2021 07:38:21 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Is your thing a bad idea because you don't understand what's good?  Maybe!  If it's good, do you get dice rolls which *allow* it to be good?  Maybe not!  Do you see your enemy getting fucked over by chance in the same way?  Nope!
31-07-2021 07:51:11 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: yeah, so you see.
31-07-2021 07:51:21 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: I think having things more face-up then was good.
31-07-2021 07:51:29 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: woulds be good
31-07-2021 07:52:47 < syv!GreatWyrmG@274-623-716-223.biz.spectrum.com: Agreed.
31-07-2021 08:02:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@ywaf-7f7nl3uy9tutq8r8r4lc988z1.ipv5.telus.net: odd, though, since in k-com I felt hiding stats would work better.
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31-07-2021 10:43:48 -!- Topic for #einsteinianroulette: Fleshorrors dream of feline BASS
31-07-2021 10:43:48 -!- Topic set by syv [Saturday 22 May 2021, 04:44:55]
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31-07-2021 20:21:04 < ER!ER@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: what if we tried *more power*?
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