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22-12-2020 05:17:35 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: yeah, it was Wyrd's weird order.
22-12-2020 05:17:39 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: seemed a bit of a thingy.
22-12-2020 05:18:05 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: still no tric.
22-12-2020 06:19:07 -!- MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli has joined #einsteinianroulette
22-12-2020 06:19:09 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: lo
22-12-2020 06:24:20 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Heya MJ>
22-12-2020 06:24:32 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Irony made me a picture for extinction.
22-12-2020 06:24:45 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: oh?
22-12-2020 06:25:54 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: yeah.
22-12-2020 06:25:56 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: map.
22-12-2020 06:26:01 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Can I see?
22-12-2020 06:26:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: https://i.imgur.com/ANYVO1R.png
22-12-2020 06:26:06 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: It's on the forums..
22-12-2020 06:26:09 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: in the update.  ;-p
22-12-2020 06:26:26 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: oh neat
22-12-2020 06:26:57 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: yeah.
22-12-2020 06:27:16 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: the question is how do you get from Mosral City to that castle, and then how do you get inside the castle.
22-12-2020 06:27:49 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: I see
22-12-2020 06:28:20 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: yeah.
22-12-2020 06:28:41 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: getting there isn't hard, but it's more stuff like 'do you use disguises?  And as what?  Do you go on the road, or do you sneak around?
22-12-2020 06:29:12 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah
22-12-2020 06:29:45 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: or maybe someone will have a good idea.
22-12-2020 06:29:58 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: sneaking around is fine, but someone might come up with something impressive.
22-12-2020 06:30:18 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: I'm sure
22-12-2020 06:56:09 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Come to think of it, I remember you playing some roguelikes.
22-12-2020 06:56:34 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Yeah, I play some rougelikes
22-12-2020 06:56:46 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Back when they were roguelikes, the first major split was between 'purer' roguelikes and ADOM spinoffs.
22-12-2020 06:56:56 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ie, nethack-esque ones.
22-12-2020 06:56:58 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah
22-12-2020 06:57:14 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: I've played Stone Soup some, so I guess that's the nethackesque ones I supopose.
22-12-2020 06:57:26 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Yeah, Stone Soup is a nethack-style one.
22-12-2020 06:57:58 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: an ADOM style one would be like ToME.
22-12-2020 06:58:12 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: ToME? I'm blanking on that acronym
22-12-2020 06:58:40 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: another one where the name got changed, was originally 'Tales of Middle Earth', and then became 'Tales of Maj'Ehl or something like that.
22-12-2020 06:58:49 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: it went full on commercial, so I don't play that one anymore.
22-12-2020 06:58:52 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ..I have beated it, though.
22-12-2020 06:59:21 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah
22-12-2020 06:59:38 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ADOM was, IIRC, Advanced Domains of Moria, and was build off a very crude earlier roguelike called Moria, but that was so crude it never was really remembered.
22-12-2020 07:00:01 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah.
22-12-2020 07:00:02 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: although I'm sure some grognard somewhere would toast me for saying that.
22-12-2020 07:00:21 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: but in general, ADOM had things like an overworld and soft time limits.
22-12-2020 07:00:41 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah.
22-12-2020 07:01:11 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Where's nethack is all dungeon and at least sorta hard time limits :P
22-12-2020 07:01:28 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Actually, nethack is considered to have less of a time limit than ADOM-style ones.
22-12-2020 07:01:35 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: oh?
22-12-2020 07:01:39 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: they usually had starvation AND something on top of that.
22-12-2020 07:01:46 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah
22-12-2020 07:01:59 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Intresting
22-12-2020 07:02:20 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: So outside of the dungeon and softimelimits any other big differences?
22-12-2020 07:03:08 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: those were the key features, really.
22-12-2020 07:03:13 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Intresting
22-12-2020 07:03:14 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: also a tendacy towards more story.
22-12-2020 07:03:34 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah, I could see that, based off what I rember of IVAN.
22-12-2020 07:04:54 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Contrasted to most nethack likes ones I've played.
22-12-2020 07:05:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Yeah.  There are a number of other variations and some that stood out, such as Angband, but that was the first real split in terms of roguelike development.
22-12-2020 07:06:04 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Neat
22-12-2020 07:07:52 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ahh, dev, playing the old man.
22-12-2020 07:08:15 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: heh
22-12-2020 07:09:43 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: I suspect the key difference was terminal-based environments and non-terminal environments.
22-12-2020 07:10:49 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: whatcha mean?
22-12-2020 07:11:50 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: There were certain restrictions placed upon a terminal environment, such as desiring an overall short gameplay session, and limiting the amount of data tracked per savegame.
22-12-2020 07:12:05 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: as well as the fully fixed screen sizes.
22-12-2020 07:12:13 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: I guess my question is, I'm not sure what you mean by terminal enviorment
22-12-2020 07:12:15 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: hence the nethack-style ones.
22-12-2020 07:12:18 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: oh man.
22-12-2020 07:12:25 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: I am NOT qualified to explain that one.
22-12-2020 07:12:34 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: you gotta find some old compsci guy to do that for me.
22-12-2020 07:12:43 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: heh.
22-12-2020 07:12:48 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: no, really.
22-12-2020 07:13:20 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Alright. So I'm guessing it's got something to do with like DOS vs not DOS?
22-12-2020 07:13:52 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: It's a lot more fundamental than that.
22-12-2020 07:13:56 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: this is stuff before dos.
22-12-2020 07:14:00 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah
22-12-2020 07:14:10 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ok, I'll make an attempt.
22-12-2020 07:14:16 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Sweet
22-12-2020 07:14:17 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: When you are on a terminal, you are not using a computer.
22-12-2020 07:14:28 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: You are using a computer interface.
22-12-2020 07:14:41 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: your little terminal sends packets to the actual computer, when then sends you stuff back.
22-12-2020 07:15:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: There might be five or ten or fifty people doing the same.
22-12-2020 07:15:17 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: so the computer goes through everyone and sends stuff back.
22-12-2020 07:16:17 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: As of such, you want, very much, to not use valuable disk space, and you want a game useable entirely through the barest minimum possible.. a set of ASCII tiles.  Standard interface was a window with 80x25 characters.
22-12-2020 07:16:43 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Which is, not coincidentally, the playfield for nethack.
22-12-2020 07:17:03 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: and why all the commands are expressed as single characters.
22-12-2020 07:17:36 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah. That does make sense.
22-12-2020 07:17:47 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: so you send one thing, some processing happens, and you recieve the next 'turn' as a playfield refresh.
22-12-2020 07:18:14 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: Also why permadeath.  Your user is your savefile, so you get one.
22-12-2020 07:18:42 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Wait, is the fact that's its through terminal why it's called nethack?
22-12-2020 07:19:04 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: It's called that because it's an extension of an earlier one called hack.
22-12-2020 07:19:09 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: so no.
22-12-2020 07:19:22 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah never mind then.
22-12-2020 07:20:55 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: wiki page says because it was developed over the internet instead of by an in-person group, like most other early roguelikes.
22-12-2020 07:21:01 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: makes sense.
22-12-2020 07:21:19 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Heh, makes sense
22-12-2020 07:26:06 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: mmm, working on the next bit.
22-12-2020 07:26:59 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: oh?
22-12-2020 07:27:25 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: yeah, the stat list and basic mechanics stuff.
22-12-2020 07:27:48 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: Ah cool
22-12-2020 07:43:10 -!- er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com has joined #einsteinianroulette
22-12-2020 07:43:20 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: hiya er
22-12-2020 07:43:30 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: :)
22-12-2020 07:43:46 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: how're you?
22-12-2020 07:43:56 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: I was really hoping to get more sleep than that
22-12-2020 07:44:11 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: I can complkettly understand that feeling.
22-12-2020 07:44:37 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: I went to bed like 5 hours ago and woke up like an hour ago
22-12-2020 07:44:46 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: heya er.
22-12-2020 07:44:47 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: welp.
22-12-2020 07:44:59 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: Guess I should go for another pass
22-12-2020 07:45:34 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: Just wanted to <3 y'all
22-12-2020 07:45:40 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: ok.
22-12-2020 07:45:42 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: see you.
22-12-2020 07:45:48 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: night ER
22-12-2020 07:45:51 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: <3
22-12-2020 07:45:56 < MidJag!midjag@68.91.zxq.uli: good luck with the sleep~
22-12-2020 07:45:59 < er!androirc@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: Good night
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22-12-2020 16:37:43 < Devastator!chatzilla@eiyg-5m9bn9tw1jsoolt3ya2i4zjmg.ipv6.telus.net: get any sleep?
22-12-2020 16:49:18 < ER!ER@444-989-172-914.res.spectrum.com: perhaps
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